Something Gothic -map31 and wrapping it up for now

As the title says. Sorry for loading up the whole gothictx wad, I'll pare it down later but what's 3 megs these days? Anyway I might do more maps in the style for an ep or something, I left myself a pretty open ending there. Also if someone could recommend a good midi to go with this I'd be very happy; I like tier, but this midi has some pretty open parts.

About the map, play VERY defensively and save often, it's heavily trapped. It's also not balanced for skills yet, I'm probably going to make this HMP and mess around with the items and a few more monsters for UV. Finally I added a bunch of cells and rockets to the end fight since I last tested it as it got very low on ammo with as many arch-viles as there were, opinions on how much is enough would be welcome.

http://i50.tinypic.com/o90ftc.jpg
SS of map with everything dead

The map

1-17 - map2
http://wadhost.fathax.com/files/NewGothicM2v1.0.zip

1-17 - intermission
http://wadhost.fathax.com/files/NewGothicM3v1.0.zip

1-19 - map4 - bare essentials marble flash. heh.
http://wadhost.fathax.com/files/NewGothicM4v1.0.zip

1-22 - map5 - somewhat similar to 1 in the build up, but not nearly as long.
http://wadhost.fathax.com/files/NewGothicM5v1.0.zip

1-24.12 - map6 - crazy trap is crazy.
http://wadhost.fathax.com/files/NewGothicM6v1.0.zip

1-25 - m6v1.1
http://wadhost.fathax.com/files/NewGothicM6v1.1.zip

1-26 - m7 + changes to m6
http://wadhost.fathax.com/files/NewGothicM7v1.0.zip

1-29 - m8. Don't really like it all that much.
http://wadhost.fathax.com/files/NewGothicM8v.1.0.zip

1-30 - m8 v1.1. slightly better I guess, still feels a bit awkward with such low detail.
http://wadhost.fathax.com/files/NewGothicM8v1.1.zip

1-30+2:40 - m8 v1.2 - changed flats on the key pillars in the telport hub to sky, changed the door in the blue keycard's flat too, changed green armor in red keycard to megasphere.

2-14 - m10. Took a long time ...
http://wadhost.fathax.com/files/NewGothicM10v1.0.zip

2-26 - finally updating about map11. Also fixed some stuff in maps 9 and 10, while adding a few goodies.
http://wadhost.fathax.com/files/NewGothicM11v1.zip

Pretty cool level, I went through with cheats since I'm rubbish at Doom these days. Though the presence of a pyramid in a brick structure with catholic crosses all over shattered the atmosphere for me ;-p

That floor texture in the beginning areas has got to go, the wood with metal strips... looks OK for ceiling but on the floor doesn't look right to me.

One or two of the buttons "sink" into their pedestal after being pressed, yet others do not. I think would be best if they were all consistent (the ones that are mounted on pedestals that is).

Also found a spot where you can get stuck if you fall off the pyramid:
http://webpages.charter.net/bgspencer/stuck.jpg

Vorpal said:catholic crosses

So....what makes a cross Catholic, now? I'm curious.

Not sure what you're getting at, but the cross as a symbol is generally used in a religious context. I'm not a scholar, nor even remotely interested in religion, but from what I understand it represents the crucifixion of Christ which happened somewhere in the realm of 1 A.D. Pyramids came thousands of years before that, so it is just odd to see two of the most distinct symbols in all history coexist.

Maybe the demons built it, I don't fucking know ;-P

Just, there was a good "mood" going in the level of a sort of medieval castle/dungeon of some sort, then all of a sudden I opened a door and the theme changed to something else. Anyway, it's a very minor gripe, and the rest of the level looked nice and cohesive.

Vorpal said:

Not sure what you're getting at, but the cross as a symbol is generally used in a religious context. I'm not a scholar, nor even remotely interested in religion, but from what I understand it represents the crucifixion of Christ which happened somewhere in the realm of 1 A.D. Pyramids came thousands of years before that, so it is just odd to see two of the most distinct symbols in all history coexist.

You COMPLETELY missed the question. You will find that not all Christians are Catholic. It's kind of like using the term "British" for all European people.

Captain Ventris said:

So....what makes a cross Catholic, now? I'm curious.

Traditionally, the Catholics (like the Orthodoxes, the Anglicans, the Lutheran Protestants, and other conservative denominations) are rather fond of crucifixes (crosses with Jesus' tortured body on it); while other Protestant churches often prefer their crosses without a cadaver.

So I conclude the concept of a "Catholic Cross" could be conceived as a cross cum Corpus Christi.

This post was brought to you by the letter C and the word "alliteration".

Just gave it a go.

I like the level so far, although I thought the part with all these trees was a bit crowded with monsters (them being so hard to see there). Also a major >:( moment when killing three archviles only to be rewarded with a box of rockets, but it could be because I was desesperately looking for ammo at that point. :p

I had a good laugh when I finally cornered myself by misusing weapons with these archviles/spectres. Great trap indeed.

Captain Ventris said:

You COMPLETELY missed the question. You will find that not all Christians are Catholic. It's kind of like using the term "British" for all European people.

So... what British country are you from? *tongue in cheek*

As for the map, it's really nice. Make more like it.

Vorpal said:

Not sure what you're getting at, but the cross as a symbol is generally used in a religious context. I'm not a scholar, nor even remotely interested in religion, but from what I understand it represents the crucifixion of Christ which happened somewhere in the realm of 1 A.D. Pyramids came thousands of years before that, so it is just odd to see two of the most distinct symbols in all history coexist.

Maybe the demons built it, I don't fucking know ;-P

Just, there was a good "mood" going in the level of a sort of medieval castle/dungeon of some sort, then all of a sudden I opened a door and the theme changed to something else. Anyway, it's a very minor gripe, and the rest of the level looked nice and cohesive.

I used the cross there cause it fit and I had just started making the level before the big theme change basically 2 rooms in. And I kinda agree with the floor texture change, it does look odd, but I'm unsure which flat would go best with ledges I used if not that one. I'll check the buttons, I thought I made sure all of the ones off the pyramid except for the one on the back of it sank into their pedestal. Will mess around with the foliage ... gray tree and large brown tree are not suited to jungle-esque areas >.< Now get this 'catholic cross' debate out of my thread! You got my hopes up by getting me 8 replies in which only 3 are related to my map -.-

@ phml; thanks for the demo, I realize I should've made the secrets a little easier to find, although how you missed the one between the baron and revenant tavern idk ;P I said earlier I'm going to mess with the foliage, and I should put a little more ammo in the >:( moment, although I know the map well enough I usually have ~60-80 shells and 10 rockets, not to mention a lot of bullets since I always took the arch-vile down with the shotty (zdoom limitations, I'm afraid to admit that I only tested this in skulltag >.<). I was really going for limited health with a bit of extra ammo, especially the end, but like I said I haven't balanced it completely yet ...

@ solarn; thanks, I think I will ;)

Also I said I was going to make this difficulty HMP ... so far working on UV seems to be rather possible ... until the pyramid challenges. I only tested 1 or 2, but I made the easy ones on HMP rather difficult in UV, but since you can go back out of the challenge without pressing the button, amassing a huge amount of ammo could lead to ammo shortages later, yadda yadda I'm thinking out loud.

I think something terrible happens if you play it on Boom, and basically any setting that allows monsters to fall. The archvile on the tombstone will remain alone and unchallenging. The lich-archviles you've got to free, on the other hand...... Damn.

The music was annoying, though.

ArmouredBlood said:

I was really going for limited health with a bit of extra ammo, especially the end, but like I said I haven't balanced it completely yet ...

Played it through using saves and not cheating, and with my playstyle after everything was dead, there was still an excess of bullets and some cells on the pyramid. Everything else was picked bone dry of ammo though.

Health was limited until getting the BFG, where there was lots of medkits on the pyramid that I didn't need. Maybe change the medkits on the pyramid to stimpacks instead?

Also I only found that one secret in the Revenent cafeteria

printz said:

I think something terrible happens if you play it on Boom, and basically any setting that allows monsters to fall. The archvile on the tombstone will remain alone and unchallenging. The lich-archviles you've got to free, on the other hand...... Damn.

The music was annoying, though.

I just saw superjamie pointing out the block monster check in the 1994 thread, so I'll be trying that. The lich-archviles are kind of mean yeah, I just didn't want to do any mass teleporting, as monster closets would be hard to fit anything meaningful into. And I said I was looking for another midi, if anyone cared to suggest one ...

@ vorpal; well, I was going for limited health, didn't say I had gotten there ;) The other 'secrets' are lifts to the sides of the arachnotron traps before the blue key, I need to make those easier to see.

I realize I should've made the secrets a little easier to find, although how you missed the one between the baron and revenant tavern idk

I'm notoriably bad at finding secrets unless the mapper smacks me with a giant clue hammer, repeatedly. I didn't mind not finding any.

Right...gief a UV-max demo plz :P

Up until and the pyramid area with some of the surrounding rooms went ok, but daaaaamn, whats up with all those arch-viles man, holy sheisse!
After the red key I gave up (ok, a bit before that hehe), but I didnt have the patience to find the best strategies bla bla this time. (also didnt find out I cuold run to the exit right after the red key. I tried UV-maxing, but I dunno if its even possible?)

The map looks exellent though! But I did fall into some inescapable pits/places. Somewhere in the lava/brown rocks room, and inbetween some trees in the "main" room before the pyramid area (the "arch vile platform" with some rockets on etc.

The spectre/arch-vile hallways were cool, and I survived on the first try. Scary, but fun :P

Yeah, I agree, that spectre/arch-vile tunnel had the heart pumping ;-)

And I thought I liked using Arch-viles.

Alright, try this version.
http://wadhost.fathax.com/files/somegoth1.zip

Fixed a ton of boom stuff, a little ammo changing and some health removal in the more plentiful spots. I tried a UV max demo but in the farthest I got, I was bounced by the end arch-viles on the lava platforming challenge, with the spidermastermind still to go >.<

P.S. @ U.O.D.; heh. Cybers got boring ;P

The Spider Mastermind room was probably the easiest.

1. Press switch
2. Run out of room
3. ????
4. PROFIT!

Perhaps the Hell Knights should be able to open the door.

ArmouredBlood said:

I realize I should've made the secrets a little easier to find

Theoretically, it should be possible for secrets to be as hard as you can imagine to find. If you need to find secrets in a map to have a chance of beating it, there's something badly wrong with the map. It's a good practice to not use any secrets when testing your own maps, only that way you'll have any chance of seeing how other people might fare.

Jodwin said:

Theoretically, it should be possible for secrets to be as hard as you can imagine to find. If you need to find secrets in a map to have a chance of beating it, there's something badly wrong with the map. It's a good practice to not use any secrets when testing your own maps, only that way you'll have any chance of seeing how other people might fare.

Well all that these 3 secrets give are a few more shells and a little more health, just to give a bit more of a buffer against fucking up when the arch-viles spawn. Nothing OP like a soul sphere or megasphere, or early plasma weapons. I think I used the 2 lift secrets in my attempt to UV-max, but only cause I accidentally woke up the 2 barons in them.

Map2 is about done; starts kind of where 1 left off, but is not really the same elevation -.- I might want to detail the cyber/revenant labyrinth in the end, but probably not. For gameplay, there might JUST be enough ammo for the last 3 cybers, not sure. No arch-viles knocking the ammo curve out of whack though. Just about played through in prboom+ 2.5.0.5 with saves (not many though, maybe 2). There's not really any traps this time, and is a lot shorter than the first one.

http://wadhost.fathax.com/files/NewGothicM2v1.0.zip

Here's my FDA. Can be summed up in two sentences : fighting cybies in a 128 pixel wide hallway ? Yeah, right.

You know if you try to make maps in which it is hard for gggmork to 2-shot cybers, these same maps will be completely overwhelming for everyone else. :p

Jokes aside, I liked it - more than the first one. The only problem I could see (apart from having to fight cybs/revenants in such a cramped space, which I'm really not fond of) is the entrance can be used as a choke point, as monsters can't climb up ; then again, it is kind of small so it might not be an issue (camping there makes it hard to dodge projectiles). I really liked the imps/revenant/cyberdemon area (sector 218), and to a lesser extent the whole first part of the map up until the cramped cramped cramped cybie hallways that, no, I am not gonna stop whining about in this reply, and I thought the music fitted well too - gave the whole map an inca feel of sorts.

Will play again !

What does FDA mean anyway?

It stands for first demo attempt, recording right away without any previous knowledge of the map until you either beat it (restarting if deaths) or get bored. The later happens to me a lot, I like my dooming in short bursts. :p

Heh, glad you liked most of it phml, everything was pretty much as it was supposed to be, including the tension from the cyber hallways. There is a way to get that invuln sphere, but it is very hard to see unless you check the map. I'm kind of disappointed you didn't get to the stairs, as I really wanted to know if someone else had enough ammo for the end :(

If you're interested, the music is from golden sun, altin caves. I keep trying to make maps that suit music from the game and it's sequel, but they almost never match the midis I find >.<

Decided to give map02 a FDA. Here's the link:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=HVP6BIQW

Exited the level on my 2nd try. No idea how I survived that one descent I took down the stairs near the end though.

Thanks for the fda anima, I'm glad someone made it through with a decent amount of ammo. A lot of health see-sawing at the end as planned ;)

So I guess it's on to the next map then. Heave-ho ...

Intermission.
http://wadhost.fathax.com/files/NewGothicM3v1.0.zip

tried 01 uvmax, died on end cybers, so not really worth watching:
http://www.speedyshare.com/files/20405736/newgothic-01-FAIL-ggg.lmp

Ah, I hate those cyber deaths, where they push you back into their next salvo :( Very nice run though, been so long since I last saw your keyboarding style in a demo I forgot how much those 180 turns come in handy (and disorient me ;P).