Hell's Last Stand [continuing the HR legacy](Update!)

3 Fast 3 Furious

The Revealing of Hell?

Anyway, er, good luck with the project.

Zetta said:

I don't see what being new to doomworld has to do with being new to DOOM. The three of us are all very experienced players and mappers, nothing noobish or inexperienced about us. Btw i'll get that picture link fixed for you guys in a minute.

It only boils down to the naming convention debate. The part about you being newbs is only in your minds.

Frankly, if it ends up looking like Hell Revealed ONE, I'm happy that it was called Hell Revealed 3.
By Hell Revealed ONE I mean grass, big brick, cracked stone, nebula skies, generally appealing architecture (parts of HR2 look like neglected city buildings), and music that plays well as MIDI :> (don't get me wrong, but the MIDI guitar is not a formidable sound for dark metal riffs).

U.O.D. said:

Oh, each level can only have 2 monster types. That'd be interesting!

These two types would be archviles and cyberdemons all the time.

Since the other monsters wouldn't be used, a dehacked patch would be included to given archviles and cyberdemons raise states.

It's going to be hilarious when Yonatan Donner pulls a Chuck Jacobi and releases HR3.

printz said:

It only boils down to the naming convention debate. The part about you being newbs is only in your minds.

Actually no, someone said that earlyer.

or inferred it in a indirect way.

I believe that was me, and let's remember the whole quote in context:

Super Jamie said:

Whilst you guys aren't so well known around classic mapping circles, I'm not as closed-minded as to discount you as a bunch of noobs making "my first megawad".

so printz is right.

Why was the HR5 thread deleted? I assumed it was a joke, but if HR3 is allowed then I don't see why HR5 wouldn't be. Yet another HR wad seems appropriate after this HR3 thread.

this isn't a joke, thats why


[EDIT] I saw the thread, Ralphis, grow up.

I don't think it matters. If you guys really think Donner doesn't care if people use the Hell Revealed name, then I'm sure you guys wouldn't mind everyone else using it for their own project.

2010: The Year of Many Hells Revealed

WE DO NOT THINK HE DOES NOT CARE AS HAS BEEN CLEARLY REPEATED. WE ALREADY SAID THAT IF WE DO NOT GET HIS CONFIRMATION BEFORE THE PROJECT IS OVER OR IF HE SAYS NO WE WILL CHANGE THE NAME. TRY READING WHAT PEOPLE SAY.

No need to get agitated. Everything's cool. We're all cool.

Zetta you gotta calm down...everything is gonna be okay.

Set said he has a feeling Donner doesn't care.
Using the name while waiting for confirmation is still using the name without permission. Why won't you guys change the name now? Not enough attention?

sorry for exploding, but do you have any idea how agitating it is to see a lot of hard work be mocked in some pathetic topic? Arguing against it is one thing, but this (http://www.doomworld.com/vb/post-hell/49534-hell-revealed-v/)is just ridiculous. Some people are acting as if what we are showing in our screenshots are some garbage. Even though it is obviously not. (btw i forgot to fix the pic. link, i'll do that now.)

TimeOfDeath said:

Set said he has a feeling Donner doesn't care.
Using the name while waiting for confirmation is still using the name without permission. Why won't you guys change the name now? Not enough attention?

We want to wait for a response, we have already sent many e-mails to many ... e-mail accounts, we'll see if we can get to him.

[EDIT] Link on first post should work now (http://s957.photobucket.com/albums/ae57/El_phelix/HR3/)

The project is still called Hell Revealed III, so you guys obviously don't want to wait. I, like many others, like that you guys are working hard on this HR-style project, but why must you call it "Hell Revealed"?

I've got to say that most of those pictures don't really impress me at all. :\

Look guys, it's simple. Unless you get permission to use the name "Hell Revealed" for this project, have a little bit of respect for the previous HR authors and use a different name. I understand that you guys are in the process of trying to do this, which is actually saying something. Most of the time your lucky to find someone asking permission to use anything at all. But I think what you guys should be more worried about at this point is making the maps and not what the name of this is going to be. Use your maps to make a name for the project, not the other way around.

Just my two cents.

esselfortium said:

Call it "HAEL YAE "

No. Call it HELL REVEALED III : SUPAR DUPAR ROCKET EDITION.

Zetta said:

sorry for exploding, but do you have any idea how agitating it is to see a lot of hard work be mocked in some pathetic topic?

What do you expect when you start playing with one of the most respected DooM mods?

What this team need is less attention shone upon them, so they can get work done instead of defending their positions on this questionable name choice.

... I will distract by proposing the creation of Alien Vendetta 2.

Too late, Memento Mori 3 is almost done!

The bottom line is, people are upset, and rightfully so, because, if you guys can just waltz up and make HR3, what was stopping them before from putting together a wad with the name and bestowing this glory upon themselves? Apparently nothing.

As stated before, even if you rename the project upon completion that doesn't change the fact that the name was used in gaining attention for the project.

I agree with Mechadon - give the project a different working title until Yonatan gives it his seal of approval. As things stand, the use (or perceived misuse) of the Hell Revealed name in these forums makes excellent troll-bait and not much more.

Good luck with the project.

Csonicgo said:

No. Call it HELL REVEALED III : SUPAR DUPAR ROCKET EDITION.

How the hell did you manage to get permission to use that name? :P

How about replacing the 'l' in revealed with a '1' or '|', or maybe 'smell revealed'.

DuckReconMajor said:

The bottom line is, people are upset, and rightfully so, because, if you guys can just waltz up and make HR3, what was stopping them before from putting together a wad with the name and bestowing this glory upon themselves? Apparently nothing.

Initiative.

As stated before, even if you rename the project upon completion that doesn't change the fact that the name was used in gaining attention for the project.

The fact of the matter is the whole project is about giving something back to the community the general perception is however we are trying to gain attention. There's no doubt any Wad called "Hell Revealed" under any title would spark lots of attention. But that's not what Doom is about and fortunately I've played this game since it came out to know that Doom unlocked the door for user edited gaming I was there to see it happen. Today is different from then you see today the Doom community erodes it's self in it's own ideology creating a false perception that looms like an ominous cloud on a bright summers day. We did our homework we tried to contact original HR/HR2 authors to obtain permission we happened to get a hold a Jonas instead of Yonatan. Do you really think Jonas would willingly want to help out if he thought the image of himself would be damaged? I would say he did it unknowingly. I figured myself sure there would be some negativity but indeed the true face of the Doom community has been exposed. Now let me tell you the real story of why were here this goes back to June 16, 2007 I was on a fishing trip with some guys and a not very good one to say the least. On the way home our driver was speeding excessively needless to say another car decided to try and race him contact was made and we were sent into the guardrail going 100 miles per hour. I received a broken femur, tibia, fibula and a cracked hip as well as severe swelling which resulted in compartment syndrome. I went though 18 days in the hospital in a very traumatic state then another two and a half months before I was able to walk through all that time it was like going through hell. Now it's been well over two years and in that time I started mapping to express how I felt about my situation for me it's like defeating those memories of unimaginable anguish. To actually feel ones broken bone ends rubbing together to feel more pain in 20 minutes than all pain in your life combined leaves you with some powerful dis-concerting memories I think certainly hell was revealed to me I lived it! So my mapping first started out with a project called The Chamber Of Damnation (still being worked on) inspiration from the best of the best Huy Pham. The idea for Hell Revealed 3 didn't start out as HR3 it actually started out as Hell's Last Stand but we thought it would be a good idea to expand this to our favorite Wad series Hell Revealed that's when attempts were made to obtain permissions. We figured everything should be good so we went ahead with the project. Everything was done with utmost respect Jonas has mentioned many times to myself personally Yonatan was enthusiastic about Hell Revealed expansions it's not even safe to assume it's safe to know 100 percent that Hell Revealed 3 would be given approval if we were able to contact him. The biggest problem is the Doom community seems to have forgotten what Doom is all about instead of having fun playing the game and making Wad's the community seemingly has proved to me it feeds on it's self that's not what Doom is about. It's about building your own Wad id software doesn't complain every time
someone names they're wad "Doom Something". But we did do our homework we did everything to the best of our ability to be legit. But hey the way this community is they will cherry pick anything to put others down for any reason even if they have a solid stance points are easily fabricated and the gullible are in masses.

Is initiative worth taking ?

Pottus said:

massive wall of text

Is initiative worth taking ?

Yes. Initiative is worth taking.

Ignore the trolls. But at the same time, be very, very sure that you are going to turn out something worthy of the "Hell Revealed" name, if you are going to persist in using it.

That's is all that really needs be said. It seems like you have taken reasonable steps to receive endorsement from the relevant people.

I wish you every success with this project, regardless of what the title finally ends up being.

We've decided that the best thing to do is change the name back to the original project project name "Hell's Last Stand". It will of course be a tribute to HR and HR2 as originally intended. It's up to a moderator now to decide if this threads title is appropriate or changed to Hell's Last Stand.

Pottus said:

We've decided that the best thing to do is change the name back to the original project project name "Hell's Last Stand". It will of course be a tribute to HR and HR2 as originally intended. It's up to a moderator now to decide if this threads title is appropriate or changed to Hell's Last Stand.

The OP can edit the thread title too.

Good decision, work on your own merits and let history judge whether HLS joins other greats like HR, AV, DV, etc etc.