bump

BUMP (limit-removing, -complevel 2 with -fast)

- must play with -fast
- don't kill the 2 monsters
- it's an obstacle course
- unplayable in zdoom

TimeOfDeath said:

- unplayable in zdoom

Care to say why?

WildWeasel said:

Care to say why?

You have to use thingrunning in places. (And not just thingrunning, but thingrunning + SR-50.)

Also, the map deliberately uses linedefs without a front sidedef, and ZDoom refuses to load maps with such errors.

TOD, you're an evil genius. This took a lot of effort, but it was fun enough to keep me trying.

Criticism:

-The repetition gets a little out of hand. I understand that it's a bigger challenge for the player to do a sequence of actions correctly rather than just one isolated action, but then, instead of forcing the player to do the same thing 10 times in a row, you can force him to do a just-barely-possible sequence of ten different stunts. Also, when the player is free to take a breather in between each obstacle, it's kind of pointless to make him run the same obstacle multiple times. For instance, once the player gets behind the "blue door" once, he's already proved his competence. Why make him do it twice more?

-The "helpful hints" just confuse me. I have no idea what the letters and arrows in the first room are supposed to tell me. If there had just been two arrows pointing to the "bumpable" sides of that box, that would have been plenty. Also, the two blue keys up on pillars made me think that I was supposed to first pick up one of those, so it took me a while before I even thought of bumping the middle box (though maybe the wad title should have given it away).

Gez said:

Also, the map deliberately uses linedefs without a front sidedef

Really? Where, and why?

Creaphis said:

Really? Where, and why?

Here:

Line 175 has no front sector
Line 176 has no front sector
Line 177 has no front sector
Line 178 has no front sector
Line 179 has no front sector
Line 180 has no front sector
Line 181 has no front sector
Line 182 has no front sector
Line 183 has no front sector
Line 184 has no front sector
Line 185 has no front sector
Line 186 has no front sector
Line 187 has no front sector
Line 188 has no front sector
Line 189 has no front sector
Line 190 has no front sector
Line 191 has no front sector
Line 192 has no front sector
Line 193 has no front sector
Line 194 has no front sector
Line 195 has no front sector
Line 196 has no front sector
Line 197 has no front sector
Line 198 has no front sector
Line 199 has no front sector
Line 200 has no front sector
Line 201 has no front sector
Line 202 has no front sector
Line 203 has no front sector
Line 204 has no front sector
Line 205 has no front sector
Line 206 has no front sector
Line 207 has no front sector
Line 208 has no front sector
Line 209 has no front sector
Line 210 has no front sector
Line 211 has no front sector
Line 212 has no front sector
Line 213 has no front sector
Line 214 has no front sector
Line 215 has no front sector
Line 216 has no front sector
Line 217 has no front sector
Line 218 has no front sector
Line 219 has no front sector
Line 220 has no front sector
Line 221 has no front sector
Line 222 has no front sector
Line 223 has no front sector
Linedef 175 does not have a front side.
Linedef 176 does not have a front side.
Linedef 177 does not have a front side.
Linedef 178 does not have a front side.
Linedef 179 does not have a front side.
Linedef 180 does not have a front side.
Linedef 181 does not have a front side.
Linedef 182 does not have a front side.
Linedef 183 does not have a front side.
Linedef 184 does not have a front side.
Linedef 185 does not have a front side.
Linedef 186 does not have a front side.
Linedef 187 does not have a front side.
Linedef 188 does not have a front side.
Linedef 189 does not have a front side.
Linedef 190 does not have a front side.
Linedef 191 does not have a front side.
Linedef 192 does not have a front side.
Linedef 193 does not have a front side.
Linedef 194 does not have a front side.
Linedef 195 does not have a front side.
Linedef 196 does not have a front side.
Linedef 197 does not have a front side.
Linedef 198 does not have a front side.
Linedef 199 does not have a front side.
Linedef 200 does not have a front side.
Linedef 201 does not have a front side.
Linedef 202 does not have a front side.
Linedef 203 does not have a front side.
Linedef 204 does not have a front side.
Linedef 205 does not have a front side.
Linedef 206 does not have a front side.
Linedef 207 does not have a front side.
Linedef 208 does not have a front side.
Linedef 209 does not have a front side.
Linedef 210 does not have a front side.
Linedef 211 does not have a front side.
Linedef 212 does not have a front side.
Linedef 213 does not have a front side.
Linedef 214 does not have a front side.
Linedef 215 does not have a front side.
Linedef 216 does not have a front side.
Linedef 217 does not have a front side.
Linedef 218 does not have a front side.
Linedef 219 does not have a front side.
Linedef 220 does not have a front side.
Linedef 221 does not have a front side.
Linedef 222 does not have a front side.
Linedef 223 does not have a front side.
The following lines do not have a front sidedef:
 175
 176
 177
 178
 179
 180
 181
 182
 183
 184
 185
 186
 187
 188
 189
 190
 191
 192
 193
 194
 195
 196
 197
 198
 199
 200
 201
 202
 203
 204
 205
 206
 207
 208
 209
 210
 211
 212
 213
 214
 215
 216
 217
 218
 219
 220
 221
 222
 223

You need to fix these lines to play this map.

(You gotta admire the persistence of ZDoom's error messages. They tell you the same thing in three different fashions just to be sure you get it.)

And for the why? Originally the map was made as a demonstration map of incompatibilities between ZDoom and PrBoom+. PrBoom+ is unfazed by such lines, but ZDoom hates them fiercely.

Gez said:

And for the why? Originally the map was made as a demonstration map of incompatibilities between ZDoom and PrBoom+. PrBoom+ is unfazed by such lines, but ZDoom hates them fiercely.

Haha, okay. I thought that maybe there was some mapping trick here I'd never heard of that requires lines-with-no-front-sides to work. But it makes more sense that these lines are just left-overs from some other completed purpose. And, I guess the lines are still useful in a way - they prevent people from playing this in a port where it won't work. Clever.

LUCKY LADY LOSES LIFE

The lines are pointless and could be deleted, but I actually made those kind of lines useful in tom19 map32 (you travel outside of the map into the void and shoot a linedef that opens a door).

Thanks for playing, Creaphis. I apologize for the repetition, the confusion, and for not including a demo. Z = ZDoom, V = vanilla, grey ash = vanilla, brown ash = zdoom. Each obstacle is pretty short, so I lengthened them and increased difficulty by adding repetition (much like tom19 map11/31). It's designed so that each obstacle can be completed in one try (except bumping the key - a wall takes several seconds to lower, so you have a few tries at bumping the key).

Did you guys complete all the obstacles? I thought it would be funny not to include a demo and see how annoyed people got. :D

I did... with idclip and iddqd. I suck at that stuff, maybe because I'm a keyboarder (and my current setup only allows sr50 to the right, not the left, heh).

Yeah, I'm sorry, this isn't very keyboard-friendly. :(
It's definitely harder/impossible with just keyboard. But at least I think the "shooting switches while falling" part would be easier with turn180 (but I don't know how hard it is to turn 90 degrees with just keyboard).

Oh yeah, I used idfa and the chaingun for that part, heh. Its an interesting level and I want to see your demo. Mine would probably be a half hour if I could ever even do it (I often missed that pain elemental platform jump in your other wad, but still fun to try to get the hang of it). This stuff fits your playing style/ability though and it makes sense to make maps for yourself. You'll probably do it in 1 try.

TimeOfDeath said:

Did you guys complete all the obstacles?

I did actually, but I had to save at the start of every obstacle and take a number of runs at each. To be able to play this level seamlessly would take me a huge amount of practice.

For some reason I decided to subject myself to this wad again. Here's my first playthrough of it without saves. It's very clumsy (and I only figured out how to use SR50 and thingrunning together effectively while recording this demo) but I think less-than-immaculate play is justified in a map like this.

It took me 11:18.

http://www.doomworld.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=856129#post856129

It became less difficult for me with practice. The end 2 puzzles are awesome (but I failed the shit out of the switch one in this demo (12:00)
http://www.speedyshare.com/files/21126357/bump-1200-ggg.lmp
)
TOD will get like 6:00, watch.

gggmork said:

TOD will get like 6:00, watch.

Probably much less. With absolutely no mistakes it shouldn't take more than 3:00.

Oops, I did complevel 9 btw.
Funny demo creaphis :). I think, like in the end part, you can save time by strafing in the direction so you're already facing the switches instead of turning each time. I guess you're using sr50? I was (but maybe cl9 messed stuff up).

I just watched your demo too. I like how you shake your head at failed attempts.

Wallrunning the way you do at the end of your demo is a good idea. I never thought of that. Truth is, I have very little familiarity with wallrunning or with SR50. I've used a little bit of both in the couple serious demos I've recorded but it's not at all intuitive for me.

lol thanks for the demos :)
Congrats on figuring out the switches puzzle heh (by holding the lift). I thought that would piss people off. I noticed something in the archvile room from watching your demos and I'm gonna fix it tomorrow and make it map02.

I really didn't think this was possible with keyboard, but nice use of turn180 for setting up the wallruns. I do the end part the same way as Creaphis but I think ggg's way is faster. I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter if you use cl9 on this map, so no problem.

edit: yeah, I especially like ggg's frustration shakes since the keyboard turns so slowly, and then sometimes he does the turn180 shakes heh.

Ha ha, its part frustration and part filling in more bland periods (like waiting for a lift or something) with pointless input just to make it more entertaining... like in mario 64 it can be boring just running from one place to another so you do pointless triple jumps or something along the way. Or doing that 360 degree turn jump off the stairs in slut.wad was fun, heh.
If you make a new version, might want to double/triple up the warp lines since they failed for me somewhat frequently as walk over lines often do.

TimeOfDeath said:

I do the end part the same way as Creaphis but I think ggg's way is faster.

"Faster" doesn't really matter much when, either way, you're waiting for a rocket to complete its journey. I think ggg's way is also a little bit easier, though, which is important.

Here's my best demo at the moment:

http://www.doomworld.com/vb/post/856157

Damn, that's quite a speed improvement.

Gez said:

PrBoom+ is unfazed by such lines

That's fucking sick, because missing front sidedefs are a very classic reason for crashing in vanilla Doom mapping.

Here's the updated wad with map02: BUMP (map01 is untouched)

I put all the demos in the zip and a 2:23 demo on map02 by me. I ended up leaving the teleport lines alone, like skipping over them was a "feature" or something. omg mario 64, I still haven't re-bought that game since the 90's D:

Nice run. I'm kind of glad to see that you don't make the last obstacle look too easy, either :)

I was never sure that it was possible to shoot all 4 switches in one fall. The best I ever did was 3 in one fall, and then the last in a second. I also never thought of opening the opening the blue barrier right away.

I had a couple ideas for speed improvements while watching your demo. In the second ring of switches in the octagonal switch room, it's possible to press three at a time instead of just two (if you move smoothly enough). Also, at the very end, maybe you can kill yourself with a rocket on the pillar near the exit door, slide your corpse underneath the still-opening door and into the teleporter and exit a second sooner :D

Nice map ToD! It was fun to play
I never figured out the switches room on my own
Here's a demo I did on map02 2:17

Cool demo, thanks :) I put it in the zip.
I haven't tried that strategy for the switches yet, it looks scary. :(