Too Large Maps

Am I the only one who finds too large maps to be kinda boring? I'm playing through Community Chest 1 now, and it's my first ever custom megawad, really, but I just find some maps to be really... Boring. It's happened twice that after spending about half an hour just running back and forth across the map, looking for some hidden switch that I missed that will lover that damn platform and get me to the exit (or the next key) that I just decide to IDCLIP myself ontop of that ledge, or through that door.

I'm stuck on Map 13 now, and it was a really fun map until I realized that I had nooooo idea of where to go next. I'm just running back and forth across hordes of dead bodies just trying to figure out what to do. This isn't really what Doom is about for me...

Having never played any of the Community Chests, I can't comment on that. However, I think it goes the same for all maps: if it's done well, I'll have fun playing it.

Take the Vrack series: huge maps, but the action is always going.

If you're looking for megawads with smaller levels, then you'd probably be better off going with Scythe or Dmonfear. Rebirth has some medium-sized levels that are always good fun.

Really, at first I was turned off by larger levels because I was so used to the originals, but the more I played some of the great wads, the more I realized that the size of a level doesn't relate directly to quality in any way.

I consider map13 medium sized. Also the ideal route can vary from player to player. :)

I just can't figure out where to go, really. I guess it's not the map size so much... It's just I've been getting stuck and gone switchhunting on one to many levels in this megawad. Great maps. But the action slows down. (Altough in a Megawad, I'd be really bummed out if I ever got into a level that was BIGGER than the ones I'm talking about...)

Dude, I got lost in Knee Deep in the Dead maps when I was little. I started relying on the automap to help me around, and it's been useful ever since (but the lack of an automap has been a big reason why I never really made the switch to playing newer games that much).

Yeah, I use the automap all the time too. It's a loveable little tool.

The two maps I have made in my still short mapping carreer are big, or medium/big ones, but on the other hand; they are quite linear. You won`t get lost. I always matry to make it obvious where to go next, but without making it feel like "a long hallway".

I`m not a fan of switch hunting, which is somewhat ironic, because I love "hunting" for secrets! I guess it has to do with the fact that secrets are optional, switches are not.

I don't mind big maps as long as they don't make it too obscure to get to the next part.. like shooting some random object to lower the red key. If I'm stuck, I just open the map in DB2 and check the sector tag and linedef references.

In respect to the thread, what PWAD has the longest playtime (excluding Deus Vult)?

Aldaraia said:
What PWAD has the longest playtime (excluding Deus Vult)?

I doubt anything beats Eternal Doom (III) in this category.

The more you play those kind of maps, the more you'll understand where an author is likely to put a switch and what to look for.

This isn't to say I haven't missed a switch sometimes, but over the years I've found it less and less likely for me to get lost in even some extremely large maps.

Having recently almost completed creating a very, very large map that won't run in anything except ZDoom, one thing I tried to make sure as an author, was to make the switches clear and obvious to the player.

On the topic, however, of missing secrets... uh, yeah. I'm really, really bad at finding them :D (Which likely influenced my decision to not have any secrets in my own WAD.)

I don't know - I've run through this map four or five times now just looking. I've shot everywhere, pressed on everything. Nothing seems to happen. Either I'm dumb as a doorknob or it's just some really obscure solution. And as I said, this isn't the first time that this megawad turned out this way.

Doom is at it's best with it's actionpacked or when you can somehow logically put two and two together. But finding a switch on one side of the map that just raises a platform you came across 20 minutes earlier - That just doesn't work IMO.

Just finished the map for the sake of knowing what's bothering you. I can see the trouble, it took me about 20 minutes or so. I think the biggest problem I had with it was that that it was easy to run past a switch, and after doing so, I couldn't backtrack, so I'd have to go back on a very roundabout path to return. Couple with the very nonlinear nature, it can make for a pretty frustrating switchunt experience. Pretty good fun, otherwise.

Playing through some of the other levels... meh, this wad is a very mixed bag.

As I said, i've run through the "path" four or five times now. I've checked every nook and corner, and still can't find anything. I'm gonna give it another go later on, but if I don't get it I'll just IDCLIP myself unto the next part of the level.

EvilNed said:

As I said, i've run through the "path" four or five times now. I've checked every nook and corner, and still can't find anything. I'm gonna give it another go later on, but if I don't get it I'll just IDCLIP myself unto the next part of the level.

If you know the exact door it's supposed to open/platform it's going to lower and so on, just open up the level in DoomBuilder or your editor of choice and check the tags. It's what I do if I get really stuck :)

vdgg said:

I doubt anything beats Eternal Doom (III) in this category.

For now.

Insane_Gazebo said:

If you know the exact door it's supposed to open/platform it's going to lower and so on, just open up the level in DoomBuilder or your editor of choice and check the tags. It's what I do if I get really stuck :)

Good idea, even though I then might as well just use IDCLIP. :p

Anyway, I opened it, but the problem is that I only know which Sector that is affected. I don't know which sidedef causes the sector to be affected. I don't know how to look that up, really.

EDIT: Nevermind, found the "Find" function.

I'm gonna come right out and say that I apologize for Map29 of Community Chest 3. It takes roughly an hour to beat and contains a bit of copy-paste. Some parts were inspired, others weren't. It was purely an exercise in seeing if I could make a really large map. And I did, and I'm sorry. But I think I kept switches and things local enough to the things they unlocked.

No need for that, that map kicked ass.

I do find myself losing my attention with certain maps. I guess I play pwads a bit sparingly anyway - I just don't run through megawads like some of you :P

Sometimes, however, I'll just save my game when I start getting bored and come back to it later. That has helped me complete more time-consuming wads

What do you guys do when you play a particularly long map, and die near the end? Especially if you didn't save.

vdgg said:

I doubt anything beats Eternal Doom (III) in this category.

How about Eternal Doom IV?

Spleen said:

What do you guys do when you play a particularly long map, and die near the end? Especially if you didn't save.

I usually quit playing. Not out of frustration, but rather such that when I get round to playing it again later on I don't feel like I have to rush through it so much. You get a little bit of the fun factor back that way.

Also, Rottking's Black Rain from CC3 was fairly good for a large map. Played that one recently.

I'm gonna come right out and say that I apologize for Map29 of Community Chest 3.

Map29 is my favorite map out of CC3.

I did never like those community chests anyway. Either the maps were way too huge (Eternal doom huge, causing the firefights to be too easy to dodge) or they were just full of traps that hindered your progress too much and too often.

EvilNed said:

Good idea, even though I then might as well just use IDCLIP. :p

Well, be "careful" with IDCLIP, as you wont trigger any linedefs (which may be crucial for further progress) when idclig`ing!

I am REALLY enjoying Whispers of Satan (Megawad for Doom2). And I think that the main reason for this, aside from the beautiful looking levels, is that the design is so well constructed. Getting to switches to unlock keys is done in a logical and intuitive way, and not in a confusing, random way. More often than not when I find a switch, it opens a door way that I just happen to walk straight towards. I don't have to backtrack and look everywhere to figure our where to go next.

I hate large maps too, I always find myself running around in endless hallways, looking for a hidden key that opens a door somewhere. But that wouldn`t bother that much when those maps would have an interesting location or scenery that you would really want to explore. In most cases it`s just a techbase or a hellish location that we have seen a thousand times.