Plutonia 2 Demos [-complevel 4]

What exactly can you not fix perfectly in the wad Gusta? Care to elaborate?
Anyway here's improvement to MAP01 UV Max 1:32 :)
I did it a while ago, sorry for not sharing it earlier

p201-132.zip

Wow kimo, I haven't seen a max demo that good in a while.

dew said:

DAMN RIGHT! i want a steady stream of nutritious maxes. :)

Hey, I ready to do them, but this trigger is update of Pl2.

Gusta said:

according to Joshy´s words: imperfection has its charm

I don't want to deny this word. However, you shouldn't use this for excusing lack of debugs. Pl2 seemed to be released hastily. Did pl2's team dubug maps enough? I don't think so.... About unreachable monsters, you can detect them easily if only you play maps with iddqd and idkfa.

Gusta, you suggested update soon after pl2 was released, so posting demos in the thread was stagnant sometimes. At least, everyone, including me, hoped and waited it.

Can't you really release final version of pl2? How are members of pl2's team? If you completely don't intend to do it, can you only fix maps in which some enemies can't be killed, and put these maps in a wad as "pl2fixed.wad" or something like requiem map21?

I am up for making a debugged version, but we need gusta on this :D

Not ignoring the debugged version subtopic, I insert a new Max.

p2131245.zip

tendamonsta uploaded a demo this week...
http://doomedsda.us/lmps/1086/1/p218-1157.zip

recorded in choco 1.3.0, desyncs for me in prboom+ and vanilla both. at cca 2:00 there's a moment where he stops still, like an unrecognized pause(?), then the movement goes off sync. any idea what's wrong?

Thanks for bringing up this topic. Though I'm afraid my answer won't be very constructive.
I had watched it with PrBoom+, and after encountering the same problem, I put the demo on a "to watch" shelf. After reading your post I checked the demo with Choco 1.2.1, same thing. Then I moved my lazy downloader ass and downloaded Choco 1.3.0. - also the same kind of a strange desynch. As far as I know, pl2 was released only once...

On a brighter side, there's another demo by TendaMonsta, a Max of MAP13. I forgot to congratulate him, so I'll do it here: it totally owns my demo, it is more clever and more efficient.



Edit: on second thought. You know, I have little experience and even less knowledge about source ports and out of sync problems, so it may be worthless. My hypothesis (only after watching) is: pl2.wad has been altered, probably the YK door.

Given that it was recorded in Chocolate, and fails to play back (and fails in the same way) in Chocolate, Vanilla or Prboom+, this doesn't sound like a port incompatibility.

Yes, it's possible that a wad change might be the reason. But that would often mean a node rebuild, in which case you'd probably get a desync much earlier.

dew's comment about a pause is interesting. Perhaps he paused while recording, and then used LMPC to remove the pause. That could easily cause the problem. Pause tics can only be removed in blocks of four - removing a number of pause tics that isn't a multiple of four causes desyncs.

If that is correct, and he still has the original demo, that should work OK, and it could be edited so only a very brief pause remains.

just to mention, chocolate has some compatibility settings too, like -gameversion (ultimate, final, 1.9) and a few more... although i don't know how these work exactly

i have no idea how exactly choco behaves in these situations, but there's definitely some sparse tics in that demo. i've even managed to remove the 2:00 desync, only to run into another one at 3:05. :( that one is even more complicated, because it seems some "game-like" tics fall into the paused part, making it impossible for me to remove it correctly.

i'm attaching a 'fixed' version of the first desync and the 'best case scenario' of the second one i was able to achieve by simply deleting stuff. it was an interesting exercise in the butterfly effect, but only partially successful. :)

p218-hax.zip

Graim said:

just to mention, chocolate has some compatibility settings too, like -gameversion (ultimate, final, 1.9) and a few more... although i don't know how these work exactly

Yes, -gameversion is the (approximate) equivalent of -complevel (3=ultimate, 4=final, 2=1.9). That isn't the problem here; I tried forcing each of the vanilla complevels, and it didn't prevent the desync.

Edit: Incidentally, dew, is there any reason why in your UV Pacifist in this map you bothered with the yellow key? It's an easy (well, non-difficult) glide to get through them.

hmm... because it never occured to me even though i knew that. :)

map18 uv-speed/pacifist in 0:10

glides went nice, but some monster always ruined it.

p218p010.zip

MAP 31 UV-Max in 4:22

p231-422.zip

MAP 21 UV-Max in 10:48

p2211048.zip

Grazza said:

dew's comment about a pause is interesting. Perhaps he paused while recording, and then used LMPC to remove the pause. That could easily cause the problem.

I remember that I paused the game for some unknown reason, and I never really watched the demo after recording because I was sick of that map.

It really irritates me that I might have to record that map over again. Anyway here is a demo of MAP13 "Hard Facility" UV-Max in 9:58.

p213-958.zip

If you hit pause, the pause gets recorded, so you probably paused after the desynch. Using the menu while recording can cause desynched demos, although I'm not sure exactly what gets written to the demo in that case.

MAP 22 UV-Max in 8:43

p222-843.zip

Map12 UV Max in 5:21.

The RL room was always a pain. I was hoping a time under 5 minutes but that room always puts me off a bit. I'm happy with this time nevertheless.

nevanpl2map12.zip

While I was recording them, my runs were ruined by visplane overflow several times. I hate only it in vanilla doom's behaviors.
Btw, I like map 23.


MAP 23 UV-Max in 10:07
MAP 24 UV-Max in 6:26

and....
MAP 21 UV-Max in 10:19 (Not good improvement from my old one)

p2_tatsurd3.zip

tatsurd-cacocaco said:
Wouldn't Pl2's bugs be fixed any more? I wasn't interested in texture's errors or something, but the situation that some monsters can't be killed or some secret can't be reached should be fixed.

Okay, let's do this! I think we should gather what editing skills we have and fix all the bugs that directly affect speed running. I invite everyone interested to the post I made here.

Is PL2's Map11 even doable UV MAX? Noone has even tried it...

EternalDoomer said:

Is PL2's Map11 even doable UV MAX? Noone has even tried it...

Did you check DSDA of PL2 Demo list?

RED-XIII had a demo for numerous categories on this one level.

MAP18, and MAP32 are all that's left and the bug fix is being worked on here

*ahem*

p2181214.zip

woo hoo! let's ignore the buggy map32 max and release a demopack! :)

If you want to record on levels 15 or 32, use the versions Kira linked to. I doubt they'll have to be edited again. Levels which have issues with demo recording will be changed.

The coming of version 1.1 is as certain as death and taxes.

Another MAP18 Max, with a better time (11:46).
Brand new route, which is illogical, but it's faster :-P A chaotic demo full of excitement, or, putting it in another way, a downright ugly demo.

p2181146.zip

Sloppy playing as usual, but got Map 12 to under 5:00. Looked through the list of demos, and picked it out due to the record being held by a player who I wasn't familiar with. Thought it would be an easy demo to beat, but damn, I could not have been more wrong :).

I got nervous as hell about halfway through the attempt, and my hands started to shake uncontrollably. Good thing it didn't affect the play all that much, although my movement got even worse. 4:4x is probably the target time with better movement and shot selection, with 4:3x possible with better infights.

Route credit goes to Nevan, who also has the much cleaner demo :).

p212-457.zip

Here's a shitty little TAS demo for Map 06 UV Speed that I made in a couple of hours. Fun little level.

TAS features used are: Permanent SR-50/SR-50 turns and slow motion (50%).

I turned my mouse sensitivity WAY down, as I normally use an extremely high setting, but the movements are still jerky as hell. If you are not a masochist who enjoys headaches, please turn on the "Smooth Demo Playback" to at least a factor of 6.

12 seconds is theoretically possible, but would probably require one of those built demos...and I have no clue how to do one nor would I care to learn.

p206x013.zip

Okay... now it's a good MAP18 max demo (keeping in mind who was the recorder), so I don't expect as much interest as in my previous shitty attempt...

p2181103.zip