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Mr. Freeze

What videogames need is...

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Destructible people.

Remember Soldier of Fortune? Remember how shooting someone in the face usually led to a pulpy, gory mess? How you could carve your initials into someone's spine using the knife?

That stuff needs to come back. Heads will explode, eyes will pop, balls will be busted, limbs will be severed, and blood will spray everywhere.

And in addition, extreme destructible enviroments. I'm talking but about Stranglehold-level stuff, where shooting the walls produces choking dust, steam bursts from pipes, and the roof can collapse on some poor sucker.

If you walk into a Matrix-style lobby, you should be able to blind your enemies by blasting huge chunks out of the walls and obscuring their vision. Or the cunks hit them, resulting in a stunned enemy and the perfect oppertunity for a headshot.

We also need some realistic gun sounds, too. I'm sick and tired of pistols being rifles, rifles being HMGS, and HMGs sounding like complete shit because the sound designer is too stupid to rent a few guns. Anyone who has seen Heat (or watched a few scenes on Youtube) will know what I mean.

And realistic physics are always good. S.T.A.L.K.E.R. did physics brilliantly, as your bullets could bounce off at wrong angles or be stopped by certain materials. Also, dump Havok or extensively rework it so the ragdolls at least tangentially resemble real life.

Then take all of the above, and set it to a score by Hans Zimmer.

Is this awesome? (Y/N)

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Just give me good gameplay. Fun.

Like this Doom 2 Reloaded that I've been playing lately.

...and I've yet to grow tired of the SG/SSG sound.

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bytor said:

...and I've yet to grow tired of the SG/SSG sound.


I consider that an exception -along with lot of other videogames-, because the world those sounds inhibit is cartonish to an extreme. Real sounds in DooM don't make much sense. Real sounds in a game like CoD or Rainbow Six make plenty sense, but are rarely used.

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Have you ever heard of a '3d volume'. Fast wofard to 25:00 in this video. My jaw dropped when I first saw this shit (*adds 'jaw dropping' to some gay ass TED-like tag cloud*):
http://www.uctv.tv/search-details.aspx?showID=6152&subject=sci
Its a 3d computer model, but much closer to real physics than polygons (it contains all the stuff inside instead of just the area). It'd maybe be awesome (destructible environments etc) for games but probably extremely computationally intensive.
It kinda sounds like you want to go on a shooting spree IRL though.

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No, video games need less realism.

But on the other hand, attempts to produce more realism can have the fortunate effect of leading to comically unrealistic situations when the player finds an exploitable glitch in the game physics. :)

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Kind of like seeing your reflection upside down in a spoon in the game of IRL; obviously a glitch in the matrix.

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Grazza said:

But on the other hand, attempts to produce more realism can have the fortunate effect of leading to comically unrealistic situations when the player finds an exploitable glitch in the game physics. :)


Like slimetrails!

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What videogames need is...


MOMENTUOUS AMOUNTS OF RED PULPY SLIMY MESSY BLOODY EXAGGERATED AMOUNTS OF BLOOD AND GORE! WHILE STILL BEING ANATOMICALY CORRECT!! BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

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People like the ridiculous gun sounds. That's why they're in games. If you want real ones you'll probably need a mod in most cases.

I wonder how realistic the gore in games could get before people would stop playing. Like if I could use a knife to rip open the abdomen of an NPC and spool their intestines onto something while they shrieked and struggled before passing out and dying of a heart attack (or bleeding, whichever came first), would people start hating the game?

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I'm agreeing with Bytor here - while being able to dismember some poor dude limb from limb with a shotgun is fun, unless the game is specifically designed with that as a game mechanic (Chasm: The Rift), it's little more than fluff that could get in the way of the dev team making a better game. Give me something fun. To hell with "realistic" gun sounds (might be more realistic but far less satisfying; computer speakers cannot replicate the feeling of gunfire) and the "depressing" atmosphere. I want a game that pulls no punches in being the most fun and awesome game possible.

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See, I'm not even THAT much of a gorehound (I hate slasher movies, for instance), but videogames are a different matter altogether. If you're fighting terrorrists/aliens/gangs/whatever who have no moral high ground at all, wouldn't it be fun to blast them apart?

As for real weapon sounds, just watch this clip and imagine how awesome a videogame firefight like this would be:



Your head would be fucking blown off your shoulders.

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that sounds almost exactly like what you described in the OP. im confus

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Mr. Freeze said:

If you're fighting terrorrists/aliens/gangs/whatever who have no moral high ground at all, wouldn't it be fun to blast them apart?


This opens up interesting debate points: what if you were fighting UCK "soldiers", who were labelled as mindless, savage, nihilistic terrorists by the CIA prior to the USA intervention in Yugoslavia, in 1999?

While they were labelled terrorist they were, as you said, unnegotiable brutes with no moral high ground. Overnight though, they got "promoted" to "freedom fighters" with a rock-solid ideology ("Great Albania").

Would YOU still have fun blasting them apart (because e.g. Serbs would) in a post-1999 game? How about a pre-1999 game?

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Mr. Freeze said:

...and set it to a score by Hans Zimmer.


That's the sort of stuff video games don't need, I say. As far as composers go, Zimmer is great, but he does film scores, not video-game music. Unfortunately, a lot of studios lately have tried to go this route and are giving games a completely generic and forgettable soundtrack in a feeble attempt to provide a "cinematic experience" -- it's a game, not a movie, silly industry. :P

Eh, I just prefer individual, actually catchy tunes for different stages, instead of random bursts of something followed by long periods of silence. It's more fun that way.

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gggmork said:

Have you ever heard of a '3d volume'. Fast wofard to 25:00 in this video. My jaw dropped when I first saw this shit (*adds 'jaw dropping' to some gay ass TED-like tag cloud*):
http://www.uctv.tv/search-details.aspx?showID=6152&subject=sci
Its a 3d computer model, but much closer to real physics than polygons (it contains all the stuff inside instead of just the area). It'd maybe be awesome (destructible environments etc) for games but probably extremely computationally intensive.

peed my pants

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Xaser said:

Eh, I just prefer individual, actually catchy tunes for different stages, instead of random bursts of something followed by long periods of silence. It's more fun that way.

Yeah.DOOM has a lot of features new videogames can use,but are too lazy/ignorant to do so.I love how music is used in the DOOM games.

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Mr. Freeze said:

Destructible people.

Remember Soldier of Fortune? Remember how shooting someone in the face usually led to a pulpy, gory mess? How you could carve your initials into someone's spine using the knife?

That stuff needs to come back. Heads will explode, eyes will pop, balls will be busted, limbs will be severed, and blood will spray everywhere.


Check out CoD 5 (or Call of Duty: World at War, as it formally goes by the name of).

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(Long rant-y opinionated post warning)

I think realistic games are just a fad. At some point, people have to start getting tired of the gray/dirt spectrum of color in 'realistic' games. If I remember correctly, Modern Warfare 2 contains about 1/10th of the actual color spectrum, and it's supposed to be somewhat realistic (not including the money for blood thing, that was just bad design choice.)

Also, realistic physics is, well, boring. Shoot a guy in the head with a 9mm pistol in real life, he slumps over and dies. Shoot a guy in the head with the first pistol in Just Cause 2 (a game with almost NO tie-in to reality) and he does a backflip. Jump in real life, get a foot or two off the ground. Jump in almost any video game, get about your characters height off the ground.

I do agree with the destructible environments and better gibbing, though. However, I feel that there really is no middle ground quality on either. Take Red Faction on XBox 360. The 'destructible environments' in that game look about as gimmicky as the Wii. In Battlefield: BC2, they felt a lot closer to what destructible environments should be. I liked how it kicked up dust when the building collapsed, and killed the people inside, but the pieces really should have broken up more. Or maybe I'm just picky.

As for gibbing, all for it. I actually can't remember seeing bad gibbing effects. If game designers should take a cue for gibbing, I think it should be from Fallout 3. The game's physics handled so terribly with corpses, gibs, everything in the game affected by it, it was amusing in a twisted sort of way. It's the only game I've ever shot something in the head, and have it's head land 500 feet away. Hell, sometimes if a person gibbed, the parts would fly in every direction and just leave the torso behind. Maybe that's not 'real' by any means, but infinity more entertaining than somebody's leg falling off.

At some point, I stopped caring about music in games that aren't RPG or action/adventure. It's just not a big deal to me anymore, especially considering I can turn it off and play anything else instead. I still believe to this day that The Ultimate Doom has the best soundtrack of any FPS out there.

OK, on to sounds. Yes, if your going to make a FPS with real guns, record the sound of the ACTUAL gun. My AK-47 is not a P90, and it shouldn't sound like one. Well...actually...most guns in games sound much better with higher bass. I've tried playing some of the realistic online shooters (I shouldn't have at all) on a simple 2-speaker system. All the guns sounded like plastic or metal clicking mixed with firecrackers. I played the same thing with a subwoofer, and the guns sounded closer to actual guns. I suppose that's not the game designers fault, they can't really package a game with a subwoofer, can they?

Anyways, I hope that doesn't step on anybody's toes or anything. Just my opinion on the state of the game industry.

(End rant)

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gore in videogames is overrated, some of the most fun I've ever had playing an FPS is with Quake Live and that has no blood or gibbing whatsoever.

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I'd hate playing a game with gratuitous and realistic gibs. It's simply tasteless and serves no purpose what-so-ever, not unlike eroguro.

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Gore does not make a game good. If it's boring without gore it may be marginally interesting for a few minutes with it but that's it.

Nothing can replace good replayable gameplay - so that's what videogames really need - but won't get because it's not in the producers' interests to make a game last longer than necessary to shove the next disaster down the customers' throats.

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Jodwin said:

I'd hate playing a game with gratuitous and realistic gibs. It's simply tasteless and serves no purpose what-so-ever, not unlike eroguro.


BUT JODWIN, L0L, YOU HAVE FINISHED POSTAL 2 3 TIMES OVER!!11!

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Sorry, games can't be violent any more. People are too afraid of moral guardians nowadays or are tempted to give teen ratings. I believe R4GE is Teen.

VIOLENTLY showing people getting disfigured is something developers have no guts (geddit?) to show any more. I swear that this world is going to HEAVEN :(

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I thought it's okay to show a man being brutally decapitated, mangled and disfigured, but God forbid if there's a silhouette of a nipple and/or someone uttering "fuck"

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Maes said:

This opens up interesting debate points: what if you were fighting UCK "soldiers", who were labelled as mindless, savage, nihilistic terrorists by the CIA prior to the USA intervention in Yugoslavia, in 1999?

While they were labelled terrorist they were, as you said, unnegotiable brutes with no moral high ground. Overnight though, they got "promoted" to "freedom fighters" with a rock-solid ideology ("Great Albania").

Would YOU still have fun blasting them apart (because e.g. Serbs would) in a post-1999 game? How about a pre-1999 game?


Stop drinking, Maes. Your body can't handle the vodka.

Akira_98 said:

I think realistic games are just a fad.


The first "realistic" shooter I remember playing was Rainbow Six back in 1998. So it's a very long-running fad.

About the brown: yeah, it sucks. The problem is that most developers won't take the steps to create believable radiosity in videogames, citing the lack of technology. But then we get into the whole realistic graphics debate, and that's a can of worms I don't feel like opening.

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Aliotroph? said:

Like if I could use a knife to rip open the abdomen of an NPC and spool their intestines onto something while they shrieked and struggled before passing out and dying of a heart attack (or bleeding, whichever came first), would people start hating the game?


I wouldn't... hehehe

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Mr. Freeze said:

Stop drinking, Maes. Your body can't handle the vodka.


Seems like you can't handle the SK20-2 standard issue rulebook.

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