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audiodef

Yet another how-do-I-build-a-bridge question (caveat)

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I know this has probably been asked a million times, but I need to put a caveat on this question when I ask it yet again:

How do I build a bridge?

The caveat is that I'm deaf, so I cannot use video tutorials (they all have voiceovers - no good for me!). I need to find a text tutorial. I've actually found one or two good ones, but when I followed those and opened my map in GZDoom, it didn't work.

I have DB2 (and will be perfectly content to get DB1 if I need to). AFAIK, 3D floors belong to OpenGL ports. I have GZDoom but will get whatever else I need for real 3D floors and stacked sectors. Do I use ZDoom in Doom format? ZDoom in Hexen format? Etc.

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You mentioned you are mapping for GZDooM. That simplifies matters considerably. There is a step-by-step tutorial at DooM Nexus.

Shout back (or PM) if you have further questions. I can whip up a simple demo map that illustrates the variety of 3D constructs possible in GZDooM, including elevators, ramps (slopes), stairways, etc.

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Thanks, Rex!

This is one of the tutorials I'd already found, but didn't work. I'm going to say I probably missed something. Instead of a bridge, I ended up with a sector with a ceiling lower than the main sector - nothing more. I used ZDoom in Hexen format - was this right or wrong? I'm assuming Hexen is right because linedef 160 doesn't exist in Doom format.

I should specify that what I'd really like to do is create a plank type bridge that sticks out over a nukage pool - if being this specific matters.

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The easiest way to figure out what's wrong is to compare your map to another one using 3D floors to see what the difference is.

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I just checked out the Edge demos I never got around to checking out, and I think that's what I need to work with. The problem is, when I opened the multi demo in DB2, selecting Edge as the format and adding doom2.wad as a resource, I'm seeing linedef types like 890 and 895 that have a description of "unknown".

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audiodef said:

Instead of a bridge, I ended up with a sector with a ceiling lower than the main sector - nothing more.

Remember that your control sector (the one in the void) needs to have:
1. a ceiling height that corresponds to the height of the "floor" of your bridge, i.e., the upper surface.
2. a floor height that corresponds to the height of the lower surface of the bridge.

I used ZDoom in Hexen format - was this right or wrong?

This is correct for mapping in GZDooM format.

Let me PM you an example wad that you can examine at your leisure.

[EDIT: It turns out that I can't attach a file to a PM (or to a forum post). When I get a chance I'll upload the example wad to my site and send you a link.]

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audiodef said:

I just checked out the Edge demos I never got around to checking out, and I think that's what I need to work with. The problem is, when I opened the multi demo in DB2, selecting Edge as the format and adding doom2.wad as a resource, I'm seeing linedef types like 890 and 895 that have a description of "unknown".

The config files are incomplete. But don't worry; it's not unknown for EDGE.

Unfortunately, the online documentation for EDGE's extrafloor is unavailable apparently (grayed-out link). See http://edge.sourceforge.net/edit_guide/overview.htm


As for ZDoom or GZDoom, use Hexen or UDMF. UDMF is recommended for new projects. I can't advise enough to go to DRD Team and download the latest SVN build of DB2, and to follow the instructions to use my own ZDoom/GZDoom/Skulltag configs.
http://svn.drdteam.org/doombuilder2/
Installation has a few caveats, but once they're here they'll be the handiest ever. :) All actors are listed, even the obscure ones. All line types that can be used on a map are there, and the parameters are named and you get drop-down menus with standard values for all the sector movements ones, though you can still input manually any value you want.

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ReX said:

Remember that your control sector (the one in the void) needs to have:
1. a ceiling height that corresponds to the height of the "floor" of your bridge, i.e., the upper surface.
2. a floor height that corresponds to the height of the lower surface of the bridge.


Aha! I must have misunderstood the above, which explains why my bridge's floor was stuck to the ceiling of the main sector. :-P

I think I'm on my way now, but if you've already uploaded that demo (which is very generous of you, thanks), I'll definitely look at it.

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Gez said:
I can't advise enough to go to DRD Team and download the latest SVN build of DB2, and to follow the instructions to use my own ZDoom/GZDoom/Skulltag configs.


I'll do that, thanks!

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Dragonsbrethren said:

Just thought I'd point out that software-rendered ZDoom supports 3D floors now:

http://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=26229

Haven't tried it out yet myself, but there's a screenshot on the second page of the thread.


It's only an experimental branch, not the mainstream builds. Whether it actually gets in or not depends on whether the existing issues there are with it at the moment get fixed or not.

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audiodef said:

...if you've already uploaded that demo (which is very generous of you, thanks), I'll definitely look at it.

I just got around to uploading a file, for which I actually cannot take credit. This was a demo wad that Nigel "Enjay" Rowand created for me back in early 2007 when I was learning the ropes of 3D floors in GZDooM.

Here is a link to the file. Please note that the scripts are already compiled, and so are not readily viewable in every map editor (I believe you'll need DeepSea to look at the scripts). If you need to study the scripts I can ask Enjay to decompile them and post. I'd so it, but I no longer have DeepSea installed on my computer. AT any rate, I believe it's only the elevator (which is designed to stop at different floors) that is controlled by scripts.

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Thanks, Rex. Looking at this map answers one question I had, which is can one have more than an extra floor - yes!

Now what I'd like to do, if possible, is raise/lower 3D floors with switches. Doable?

EDIT: On second thought, it's clearly doable. The elevator is itself a rising/falling 3D floor. I can lower it, go upstairs, and jump on top of it. Is a script the only way to do this?

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audiodef said:

The elevator is itself a rising/falling 3D floor. I can lower it, go upstairs, and jump on top of it. Is a script the only way to do this?

The elevator is actually two or more sets of rising/falling 3D floors - the floor of the elevator, and the ceiling of the elevator make up 2 sets, the walls of the elevator make up one or more sets.

Unfortunately, when it comes to using an elevator, a script is the only way to do it. Remember that you want to simultaneously move the control sector's floor and ceiling by a certain height. Considering that a "physical" switch can only be used to trigger a single instruction, the only way to make multiple actions occur is via a script that is activated by the switch.

If I remember correctly, the elevator in the example can be made to stop at each floor, move up or down, and perhaps skip floors(?) All of this can only be achieved through scripting.

For examples of "realistic-looking" elevators with sliding doors, cabling, up/down switches, etc. check out Paranoid, a mod for GZDooM.

Here is an example of a 3D bridge done in GZDooM.

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You can use linked sectors to have the various parts of an elevator cabin all move together with a single instruction.

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Gez said:

You can use linked sectors to have the various parts of an elevator cabin all move together with a single instruction.

Indeed, that is the best way to ensure that all related sectors function as a single unit. Thanks for reminding me.

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Gez said:

It's only an experimental branch, not the mainstream builds. Whether it actually gets in or not depends on whether the existing issues there are with it at the moment get fixed or not.

Ah, okay. I wasn't entirely clear on that, Xaser's post at the top of the second page made me think it was going into the main builds too:

A quick unofficial update with some even more intriguing news: Graf just merged the polyobject branch into the trunk a few minutes ago, or to say it in layman's terms, dynamic splitting is in (much quicker than I'd ever have expected, too).

Does that only apply to dynamic polyobjects?

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Really nice info. Thanks!

I think I'll play around with 3D floors in GZDooM, Hexen format, and DooM2 resources and then move on to some even niftier stuff. Just to make sure I get the hang of things.

Damn, map-building sure is addictive. At least I can't get fired for spending too much time doing it.

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Dragonsbrethren said:

Does that only apply to dynamic polyobjects?


Yes. ZDoom's polyobjects are now absolutely awesome by the way -- they can have any shape, they don't need to be convex anymore.

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audiodef said:

The problem is, when I opened the multi demo in DB2, selecting Edge as the format and adding doom2.wad as a resource, I'm seeing linedef types like 890 and 895 that have a description of "unknown".

Haven't found any reference to them on the Edge website which is going to make updating the DB2 config file an interesting task.

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Dragonsbrethren said:

Ah, okay. I wasn't entirely clear on that, Xaser's post at the top of the second page made me think it was going into the main builds too


Well, the stuff from the screenshots is in the main build now... but that thread is about the new polyobject code, not 3D floors. :P

On the 3D floor front, there's still a lot of tweaking to be done to get the rendering just right (or close enough), but they do "work" on some basic level. The timeframe all depends on when the devs finish filling in the missing pieces.

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You adjust their height in the editor. DB2's 3D mode will let you do that visually. If you use the "bridge object" method, you will need to use it anyway to position your bridge things correctly.

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Thanks, Gez.

Now, how do I auto-align textures along the sides of bridges? I used 3AHOTRMA as a bridge sidedef and it's clearly not aligned when I play the map. In DB2, 3D floors do not show so I don't see how I can hit "A" or shift-A to align 3D floor sidedefs.

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audiodef said:

Now, how do I auto-align textures along the sides of bridges?

Assuming you're using GZDooM, you will need to use a combination of manual and automatic methods to align linedefs that constitute 3D sectors. The method I use is to apply the texture (this is the manual part) to the first linedef of the 3D sector, use the map editor to align all of the linedefs that I wish to align (the automatic portion), then remove the texture from the first linedef (manual, again).

The reason you need to assign a texture is that your 3D linedefs are (typically) lacking their textures, which are assigned by the control sector. Without any textures, the editor has no reference to auto-align the linedefs, which is why you need to apply the texture before instructing the editor to auto-align.

Note: The explanation above refers to horizontal alignment. Vertical alignment can be a bit more tricky. Refer to my tutorial on how to ensure proper vertical alignment.

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Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Thanks for confirming that!

Where's your tutorial? I'm sure I'll find it useful.

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audiodef said:

Where's your tutorial? I'm sure I'll find it useful.

You've already used it, but here's a link:
DooM Nexus

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Heh. And I call myself smart. I didn't even put two and two together.

BRAIN FAIL!

This is a really good tutorial.

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