Using doom2 & hexen textures together?

I recently decided to add hexen.wad as a resource to a map I was building. I started it with doom2.wad. What happens in DB2 is that whichever resource is listed last appears in full colour in the texture selection dialog and texture from the other resource look like 4-bit crap.

Did I do something wrong or can resources just not be mixed this way?

The problem may be arising from the incompatibilities in the color pallettes of the two games. Unless the textures are in a format such as portable network graphics (png, which code their individual pallettes in each image), you will get conflicts in the 256-color pallettes of these various games.

One option is to see which Hexen graphics you wish to use, then copy them out of hexen.wad and include them in your DooM mod (your PWAD, not your IWAD). Although there are copyright limitations to such copying/pasting/distribution, the practice is widespread and is typically little cause for concern. [As with all things, however, do it in moderation and use proper judgement regarding how much is too much.]

Thanks. That makes sense.

Too bad game programmers haven't agreed on a standard - or have they by now?

audiodef said:

Too bad game programmers haven't agreed on a standard - or have they by now?

Agreeing on a standard at this point is like closing the barn door after the horses have bolted. The color pallettes of the various games of that era were virtually "hard-coded" into the games. With the advent of source ports modders have been able to customize their pallettes (although, if I'm not mistaken, DooM mods are still limited to a 256-color pallette) and introduce never-before-seen colors into the game(s). The problem, however, still remains - the color pallettes of the various games of the era do not match exactly, and you are limited to 256 colors.

Png-format graphics did away with the limitations of a single 256-color pallette in any given game, with the simple device of allowing each graphic to carry its own 256-color pallette. Therefore, you can mix and match png graphics with myriad pallettes in the same game. Of course, in the context of DooM, you need to use a source port that supports png graphics.

Depending on what you're looking to use, you could try The Return Resources. This contains many things, including a lot of modified Raven (Hexen/Heretic) material, and all of it ready to be used in Doom wads.

This saves you the bother of having to make adjustments for the Doom palette, and should also make it less likely that people will criticize you for ripping Hexen resources. (Illogically, of course...)

Nice! Thanks. Grazza.

I notice using this resource wad changes the status bar during play. How do I keep the classic doom status bar?

Also, when I want to publish my map, do I need to include this resource wad?

Grazza said:

Depending on what you're looking to use, you could try The Return Resources.

Yes, that's a brilliant idea. These are ready-made Hexen-esque (i.e., medieval) graphics that, as Grazza said, were intended to mesh perfectly in with the DooM pallette.

audiodef said:

I notice using this resource wad changes the status bar during play. How do I keep the classic doom status bar?

If you append your wad with the retres.wad then any new "lumps" (i.e., those in the appended wad) will supercede and replace the stock DooM lumps, including the HUD/status bar.

Also, when I want to publish my map, do I need to include this resource wad?

If you're using an external wad that has already been published (such as retres.wad), and it's being used without any changes, all you need to do is indicate in your text file that the player will need to obtain and use that external wad with yours. [Of course, you should give credit to the publishers of the external wad too.] In other words, you do not need to include the external wad.

As an alternative, and particularly if you're using the resources of an external wad selectively, you may consider extracting those resources only, and including them in your wad. (Make sure that the publishers of the external wad have given permission to use the resources selectively.) In that way your entire project will be in a single package, and the user will not need to download another file from somewhere else. [Speaking of retres.wad specifically, I believe that every serious Doomer probably already has a copy.] Furthermore, it will solve your HUD/status bar problem.

As Rex says, you should check the info that comes with any resource wad that you use, but in this case they give permission for some of their resources to be included in other wads, as long as they are credited (I think they suggest a wording). If you want to use the whole thing, then they ask that you link to it, rather than including the whole of it.

audiodef said:

Thanks. That makes sense.

Too bad game programmers haven't agreed on a standard - or have they by now?

Most games use DDS for their textures now. But this is not a good format for Doom. It's a good format for what is, at least for Doom, high resolution pictures. It's also a bit destructive, like JPG.

SLADE3 has a very neat feature in that it has a drop-down palette selector. When you browse through a wad's graphic resources, you can change the palette to use any of the Doom engine game ones, and even some from other games of the era. This also lets you convert them to PNG using any of those palettes as a base.

Thanks for the info, guys. :-)