E3M1 revisited

Pretty similar to the original. I kinda like it, tho, so thought I'd post it for feedback/bugs. I'm curious if it's playable in vanilla.

Hope you enjoy. download latest version here

I'll give this a try later on :). I'm always curious to see how remakes of classic episodes turns out.

Put a box of shells near the end for UV and you're good. There is not much else to say about this map... it's a slightly changed version of E3M1. Some hallways are smaller and some minor details were added. Nothing interesting to see here, but that was the premise, right?

If I remake more from E3 they'd be less faithful to the originals. For example e3m2 prolly won't be shaped like a hand, but would be dominated by the sp_rock textures. While e3-1b.wad was very similar to the original, I did make it from scratch, using the original as a reference.

BlueEagle said:

Nothing interesting to see here, but that was the premise, right?

No, that wasn't the premise. The premise was to remake it more how I would have liked it to have been in 1993. Sort of a re-envisioning of the level. Did you find any of the secrets? I thought the level was a little more interesting than the original.

I don't think that making this is time well spent. I mean the original levels are already there and for me there is nothing new and exciting about the remake besides more corners in a hallway and the secrets have been changed. Whoop-dee-freakin-do? Maybe it's challenging for you to make the maps because you make 'em from memory, but for me as a player I would like to play something more original.

Maybe others appreciate this more than I do, but I think you could do more interesting maps with your time. Helltrip2? ;)

BlueEagle said:

I don't think that making this is time well spent. I mean the original levels are already there and for me there is nothing new and exciting about the remake besides more corners in a hallway and the secrets have been changed. Whoop-dee-freakin-do? Maybe it's challenging for you to make the maps because you make 'em from memory, but for me as a player I would like to play something more original.

Maybe others appreciate this more than I do, but I think you could do more interesting maps with your time. Helltrip2? ;)

I thought you didn't like Helltrip? If I do make another map like that, it will be less ... protracted.

I just played it and...I didn't notice a whole lot different. The narrow hallway with the pinkies was shorter in the remake, it seemed (or maybe it was just me). I didn't find any secrets, but I'm not too big on those in any map. Overall, I think that you could have done much better. I played your "Helltrip" map, and its game play had a lot of potential. I think you should have applied that creative thinking to this remake and made a real revamp of the classic map.

I'm not trying to sound mean. I just think that you can do a lot better than this remake.

Actually I kinda like the sound of this idea, but hasn't it been done more than once before? I also agree that if we are to take the time to alter the original maps then a lot of content should be added since a lot of the original maps are so small area-wise. But that's just my preference since I love large time-consuming maps; if I had my way ENTRYWAY would take six keys to finish. So I guess I'm agreeing with what others have said in that your own works are cool and perhaps time would be better spent working on the Helltrip megaWAD, but if the remaking of ID levels is what you want to do then the results should contain more innovative things to take players by surprise.

Quantity isn't always quality, though -- Eternal Doom had plenty of good and bad examples of large maps, at any rate, though regardless of quality, I often find it tedious wad to play in anything more than short bursts, simply because of the size.

Having said that, I do like this map because it is simple. It doesn't seem hampered much by modern thinking (i.e. it's like something id would have done) and while I like the original's level bridge area a bit more, everything else was a subtle improvement except for the lack of ammo in the final room.

I'd deem this a small success simply for the fact that it feels like E3M1, not just like it was inspired by it.

It was pretty good. Though, I could've gotten the same 'pleasure' if you will, by playing the original. Pretty cool overall.

Xaser said:

Quantity isn't always quality, though -- Eternal Doom had plenty of good and bad examples of large maps, at any rate, though regardless of quality, I often find it tedious wad to play in anything more than short bursts, simply because of the size.

I tend to agree. One of the appeals for me of doom 1 remakes is the level size and level of simplicity, but distinct look/feel/atmosphere of those maps.

Having said that, I do like this map because it is simple. It doesn't seem hampered much by modern thinking (i.e. it's like something id would have done) and while I like the original's level bridge area a bit more, everything else was a subtle improvement except for the lack of ammo in the final room.

I'd deem this a small success simply for the fact that it feels like E3M1, not just like it was inspired by it.

Thanks Xaser. What I italicized is, at some level, what I was going for. Maybe you'd be interested in this project. Anything specific about my level bridge area you didn't like?

Hellbent said:

Pretty similar to the original. I kinda like it, tho, so thought I'd post it for feedback/bugs. I'm curious if it's playable in vanilla.

Hope you enjoy. download here

After u press the switch at the west end of the blood pool, northeast part of the pool becomes inescapable. And similarly for west part.

tempun said:

After u press the switch at the west end of the blood pool, northeast part of the pool becomes inescapable. And similarly for west part.

What port are you playing in? How hard did you try to get out? my bad. If you find a secret, it fixes that problem. The latest version no longer requires finding a secret to be able to get out of that pit later on. I've got an update coming shortly.

Xaser said:

Quantity isn't always quality, though -- Eternal Doom had plenty of good and bad examples of large maps, at any rate, though regardless of quality, I often find it tedious wad to play in anything more than short bursts, simply because of the size.

I've been thinking about a possible idea for one of these "community touch-up" projects like "1994 tune-up challenge" or "detailing greenwar 2" -- turning deathmatch maps into single-player ones. Adding monsters, locked doors and switch, maybe a few rooms, and there you go. The interest of that approach? The maps would by their design be very short, since deathmatch maps are rarely mammothian in size like the ED ones.

Gez said:

I've been thinking about a possible idea for one of these "community touch-up" projects like "1994 tune-up challenge" or "detailing greenwar 2" -- turning deathmatch maps into single-player ones. Adding monsters, locked doors and switch, maybe a few rooms, and there you go. The interest of that approach? The maps would by their design be very short, since deathmatch maps are rarely mammothian in size like the ED ones.

I would LOVE to see an SPifying of Greenwar 2. The settings of those maps are so awesome. They would make for great setting of single player maps. Ideally you'd get the original authors to extend them, but not sure the original artists would be up for that.

Hellbent said:

Anything specific about my level bridge area you didn't like?

It didn't collapse, is really about it. I always loved that about the original map for some reason. Also, "Doom the Way id Did" actually came to mind while I was playing the map -- if it wasn't a remake it'd be a fitting submission. :P

@Gez: That's not a bad idea, actually. Would be an interesting challenge to focus almost solely on gameplay and utilize the map's existing layout as well as possible. Gothic SP, anyone?

Somehow, I'm reminded of 32in24-8 only in reverse...

Yeah, but the element of surprise is now gone. So it didn't make sense to remake that part. I suppose I could have come up with a creative way to redo it and have it be fresh, but I couldn't be arsed to figure that out! I thought a reversal of the original was good way to redo that area.

This maps feels more like a "maps from memory" type than a remake(when I think remake I think of Paul Corfiatis Hell Keep Remake or Community Chest 3 map21). Still it was a fun map while it lasted. I Like the reversed bridge and the spawning imps near the exit.

Ok, fair enough. Remake probably wasn't the right term.

That PC remake is pretty cool. Quite a bit more ambitious than my effort, that's for sure. It didn't quite feel like an original doom 1 episode 3 level tho. But there is no denying PC's skills as a mapper. Thanks for the link.

Nearly done with my updated version. It's still ostensibly the same as last version, but I've fine tuned a couple things and I think it plays better now. I would really like it if someone would record a max demo on it. I think the map is much more interesting if you can find all the secrets than if you just play to finish. I'll post the wad real soon now.

Next update is ready for download. I encourage people to find 100% of the secrets, as that is half the fun of this remake. Thanks for playtesting!

download it

So I started work on E3M2. It's going to be a lot more liberal in deviating from the original than E3-1e.wad was. It will have a similar level of detail tho (so quite minimal). I like how it's turning out so far. I'll post screenies soon. In the meantime you should play the first level in this budding series. =_)

In the ASHWALL room near the end there is a wall on where if you hit the use button the texture jiggles but nothing happens.

Herculine said:

In the ASHWALL room near the end there is a wall on where if you hit the use button the texture jiggles but nothing happens.

yessir. I assure you it's not a bug. Happy hunting. :p

My bad... I figured it out, and I've found all 4 secrets!

I like the expanded secrets area.

However, given the fact that we're all familiar with both the original versions of this level and of the Warrens, I'm wondering if some elements from that secret level could be added to this map as well? Just a thought...

Herculine said:

My bad... I figured it out, and I've found all 4 secrets!

I like the expanded secrets area.

However, given the fact that we're all familiar with both the original versions of this level and of the Warrens, I'm wondering if some elements from that secret level could be added to this map as well? Just a thought...

Well, I've left this wad with room for a Warrens version of it. Warrens is another level I would like to 'revisit'. I made a version awhile ago (not sure I'll be able to find it, but maybe) and I was somewhat satisfied with it. Warrens, like Hellkeep, is a map with a lot of potential, but just kinda let me down a little. It'd be fun to redo it and make it more interesting. Maybe I'll pull up that version I made awhile ago. But I wouldn't add elements of Warrens to e3-1e, but rather make a warrens off of e3-1e--and prolly significantly revamp the add on areas from warrens. There is something about hellkeep though that I felt the need to keep it quite faithful. I don't feel that need with the rest of the maps in the episode (maybe E3M8 to some extent, but it's a pretty underwhelming map as well [I just remembered I actually remade E3M8 awhile ago as well--maybe I'll post both for feedback and suggestions. Thanks for playing and giving feedback. :)

Wow, it's all coming back to me. So I edited e3m9.. but only one portion of it--so I wouldn't want to share it as is. BUT.. I also made a version for Doom 2 that is actually pretty kick ass. It is a real blast to play it now over a year since I last worked on it. It's a bit unfair from a pistol start, but it is pretty cool if I may say so myself. It's e3m9 edited, not remade from scratch. I am going to work on it right now and post it once it's ready. Playing it made me realize my e3-1e.wad is not that good, heh. The only part of it I actually like more than the original is the room before the demon hallway. I think the original's is a bit too roomy. I have to say I like the rest of the original more, tho. :-/ ah, well.

Oooh... there's an idea I hadn't thought of... remake Doom for Doom II!
It'd be like on the Playstation when you say: "Hey... Chaingunners and Pain Elementals aren't supposed to be on E1M1! Could add a lot of surprises. And the console didn't even have Arch-Viles!

Herculine said:

Oooh... there's an idea I hadn't thought of... remake Doom for Doom II!
It'd be like on the Playstation when you say: "Hey... Chaingunners and Pain Elementals aren't supposed to be on E1M1! Could add a lot of surprises. And the console didn't even have Arch-Viles!

yeah, surprises is sorta the name of the game with this remake. :) There are still some weak parts to it (like where the old level is still exactly the same), but I may upload a beta just to give people a flavor of what I'm working on--since there's a good chance it'll never get finished. :( The fun of helltrip without all the annoying nonsense of opening mazes :)