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Fuzzball

Just curious - Pistol

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myk said:

I use it sometimes, when unfamiliar with a level, especially if ammo seems scarce, and mostly instead of the shotgun. If the chaingun is available it becomes somewhat useless but it can still be used to finish off some monsters when I can tell they barely survived an attack.

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How many of you use the pistol in the original games once you get better weaponry?


With the key words being 'original games', my answer is no, since you're given more than enough shotgun ammo, and the chaingun replaces the pistol entirely.

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I really love using the pistol whenever I get the opportunity. So, I enjoy the start of WADs where it takes some time till you get a shotgun. Or when I had no ammo in other weapons left and no chaingun and my final resort is the pistol. Of course that depends on the remaining enemies. Don't put a bunch of archviles and revenants without giving any weaps or ammo, or a baron in a very narrow space and then I'll hate this level.

I remember E3M1 in ultraviolence where you opened that door and there were two cacodemons. Of course one could avoid them and go directly for that shotgun in the falling bridge. But I love starting this level and carefully snipping those from a distance and strafe around their projectiles. I think this was the first time I used a pistol with harder enemies.

And yes, snipping. It feels great when there is a wall or crates or something creating the ideal conditions for snipping, hiding behind a place with a narrow opening that looks directly at some weak enemies and taking them out with the pistol. Sometimes with the chaingun, but pistol feels more fun for some reasons.

Common thing, two shotgun fires don't always take down demons, so in that case change to pistol and 1-2 fires and down. Saves the 3rd shotgun fire and is fun if you can change fast and you are not pressed against a wall.

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The pistol is the most fun against zombies, but considering all the other monsters their are, I don't like the vanilla pistol much. Powering up the pistol is one thing I like about weapon mods; right now I prefer a burst pistol, less damage than a shotgun shell, and not continuous like a chaingun.

Also I love getting the Iwad sprites to do akimbo, using only special lumps:

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Pistol has never been my favourite (guess why :D), but I always activate "Gunfire" effects and also use it when got a Shotgun with not-that-much ammunition and I don't want to waste those shells for Zombiemen and Imps.

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Reading all these posts I can see most of you do not use it often, mainly to use for switches- so you would get fustrated with ONLY a pistol for a map then? Even if monsters used are not too hard to take down?

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I like the idea of a pistol exclusive map, but in order for it to work the map would need to be sponsored by some other sort of gameplay element: More than mere opposition. Something like barrel usage, monster infighting/combinations, crushers, that sort of thing. The pistol is far too unsatisfying a weapon to hold its own in any standard map setup, even where there are mostly weak monsters involved.

CChest map01 is the only map I can think of at the moment that uses the pistol extensively, but there are probably a fair few.

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Guest

I guess if it was done cleverly, there is no reason a pistol map couldn't be a lot of fun.

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Kyka said:

I guess if it was done cleverly, there is no reason a pistol map couldn't be a lot of fun.

Pretty much, though it makes me wonder if there are any maps/wads that force you to use it in a creative way...
Hell Cyberdreams didn't need weapons-

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j4rio said:

pistol is awesome!
coupled with fists = epic win
*youtube video*


WOW! you sure owned that cyberdemon with that pistol.

Anyway, as most people mention I only use the pistol for weak monsters, switches and (on rare occasions)a last resort. In deathmatch it sucks unless your playing on a map that involves tysoning your opponent(s).

st.alfonzo said:

CChest map01 is the only map I can think of at the moment that uses the pistol extensively, but there are probably a fair few.


1Monster map01 and Scythe map01 are also good examples of pistol maps.

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The pistol is a poor weapon but its intention is only to be a stop gap to the shotgun and there is really no need to use it at all after obtaining the chaingun. However I feel the doom arsenal covers all the bases and a pistol isn't really required.

A useless weapon I do have an issue with is the mace from heretic, I simply can't see why anyone would use it unless ammo constraints required them too

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Bobsklim IV said:

A useless weapon I do have an issue with is the mace from heretic, I simply can't see why anyone would use it unless ammo constraints required them too


Actually I find the Cleric's mace useful against certain melee monsters like Ettins and Centaurs. Its a good way to save mana on your other weapons unless there are Hordes of em.

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Philnemba said:
In deathmatch it sucks unless your playing on a map that involves tysoning your opponent(s).

Yeah, it sucks, but in any level where you aren't spawned on top of a weapon (which does have the drawback of making you switch immediately) it can serve to weaken or frag the opponent after you spawn, while you move to reach a better weapon. In the "v1.0" deathmatch mode (used in classic duels) where items aren't respawned, fragging is mostly about cumulative damage, so pecking at the opponent is a good way to get closer to the next frag.

That's the key thing about the DOOM pistol; it's supposed to be clearly shittier than other weapons because its value is in the fact that you don't have to acquire it. Only the fist is crappier, in the sense that you have to touch your target, but with the pro that it doesn't use ammo.

The relation between the pistol and the chaingun is very similar to the relation between the shotgun and the SSG. Arguably a bit more extreme, but that's offset by the fact that the pistol is the default weapon.

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Bobsklim IV said:

The pistol is a poor weapon ... there is really no need to use it at all after obtaining the chaingun.


It's a poor weapon for "poor" maps, intended as ammo frugal maps, like those of a well-known mapper ;-)

There, being able not to waste that extra bullet when an odd number would suffice often means the difference between life and death.

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Maes said:

It's a poor weapon for "poor" maps, intended as ammo frugal maps, like those of a well-known mapper ;-)

There, being able not to waste that extra bullet when an odd number would suffice often means the difference between life and death.


Can't say i have ever been in a position where one bullet has made the difference.

However if you have any recommendations as to wads that require such ammo scrimpage i'd be to test you theory :)

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Bobsklim IV said:

However if you have any recommendations as to wads that require such ammo scrimpage i'd be to test you theory :)


Have fun :-p

To be fair to the author, I explained exactly what my "grudge" was with certain of his maps (as one of his playtesters, I got through way harder versions of what you'll actually play). In particular, try Ode to Resurrection and Hell Sewage (the latter is in the Claus1024 pack, MAP27). Of course play from pistol start. A Lost Soul is different, but you also run the risk of running out of ammo just for picking the wrong route/not knowing the map beforehand.

Another pattern you'll encounter in those maps is that the chaingun (or anything more powerful than a shotgun, really) is treated as a "premium" weapon you'll have to earn.

So for the initial parts of those maps you'll be using the simple SG, with all the implications this has on rate of fire, shell/pellet efficiency etc., so those bullets in your inventory may be worth more than you think....at least that's what Jodwin's demos "taught" me.

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I hate the pistol, I only use it for switches after I get the shotgun.

However, I think a pistol-only map would be cool, especially if there's a lot of barrels (but a berserk-only map would be better).

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Just to go slightly off-topic for second, can anyone point me in the direction of good, tyson gameplay maps. I recall playing one by Cyb a long time back, but that's the only wad I could find based solely on that style.

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I use the pistol when I am low on ammo and I already dealt with the much tougher demons. I was dumb enough to fight a cyberdemon with just a pistol. It actually didn't take as long as I though, but, when you're bored time just slips by.

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