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Phml

The more I map, the worst I am at it.

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I've never ran into what most people call mapper's block. Ideas for maps come to me all the time, and recently I even got past the hurdle of resource hunting ; but somehow, when it comes to actually sitting down and reproducing in DB2 the carefully planned layouts and designs I have no trouble putting on paper, it ends up being a frustrating affair of moving the same damn vertexes back and forth and choosing between one bazillion textures to pick something that still doesn't quite fit in the end. Even worse, as the title says I'm somehow getting worse at it as time goes by.

So that's the "me, my life and I" part ; which got me to wonder, has anyone ever thought of recording themselves building levels in DB2 (or any editor really) and putting it on a video streaming website ? It could be neat to see how different people actually map and go from nothing to the finished product. I've always liked the way Tango puts older versions of his maps as a map02 in his single level releases so you can see how much the map changed, too.

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Oh, don't get me wrong. This isn't something that's just happening now, I felt that way since I started mapping about one year ago and it just keeps getting worse. In fact, the less I map the more I am annoyed when I open DB2 again (as I tend to forget about the frustrations and remember only the cool parts).

But really, talking about this is pointless. It's mostly the "is there any videos of people using DB2 in real time around" thing that prompted me to post this topic.

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I`ve trhought about that video-thing myself. One time I actually thought about taking a screenshot every minute or something like that, and put them together as a movie. I didnt care though, cuz I`ll need a program thatll take a screenshot and save it every minute. Does that exist?

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That video thing would be interesting for a speed map.

Just saying.

It would also be less..."useful" for longer maps because different people plan out their maps in different ways (drawing on paper, planning in head, just mapping as you go...) which probably wouldn't be that obvious from a mapping video.


Anyway, I can identify that texturing problem from my own mapping from few years back. Once I started thinking about map themes and texture palettes as a whole texturing became much easier and started to produce more coherent maps than when I was just staring at a wall and wondering what might look good there.

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Doombuilder should add demo-compability hahah. Record demo while you map, and others can watch the demo in DB at preferred speeds lol

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I was actually thinking about doing something very similar to what was done that youtube video. In fact, after finishing up this map I'm working on right now, I was going to attempt it for the next map in Vela Pax. Though it would probably be more for the "neat" factor than for anything educational. That and I'd probably end up sitting on literally days worth of video that I'd have to speed up and chunk into episodes. If there were enough people who would want to see it though, I'd do it.

Anyways, to contribute to the actual topic at hand, the only advice I could give you is to just keep on mapping. I know that I run into dips of sub-par mapping and then back up to stuff I'm happy with. And taking breaks, anywhere for a few days to a few weeks, also helps tremendously. If you force yourself to try and make a map, often times you won't be happy with the end result. Or you'll just stare at a blank grid for a few hours :P

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Maybe you're a little too strict about your mapping? I've made levels that looked like crap like anyone else has their first time mapping but I eventually developed an edge for choice textures and well-planned structures. Maybe you should try making small maps? Small maps are quick and easy, then you can work your way into making bigger maps. Sometimes even I might take a screenshot of what I've made so far in Doom Builder and paste it on MS paint so I can sketch and see what might work.

I've also thought about recording myself making a level; I'll have to do that at some point. Most likely when I'm finished with the map I'm working on now.

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Yeah, I've been there Phml. One technique I've used to get around that MUST MAKE THE ROOM/LEVEL LOOK NICE problem that I'm sure we've all encountered, is to sit down and get the first room to my map looking 'right'. Takes a long time, but I know once I'm happy with the style it usually isn't too hard to reproduce in regard to the rest of my layout, and everything starts comming together.

Comming up with a good archtectual/texture theme can be incredibly frustrating, but once I have it and can actually see what the rest of my map will eventually look like, I'm usually motivated to finish. Usually :)

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I'd like to preach my mapping process but I'm not really sure how I could condense the 6 hours I spend mapping into a watchable video.

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Might be an interesting idea for a speedmapping exercise.

Do something similar to SargeBaldy's speedmapping compilations (a certain time is set up, mappers have 100 minutes to complete their maps, etc.), but in addition have the authors record videos of their progress.

After that, you could speed the videos up to a amount that would allow each one to fit into YouTube's 15 minute time limit, then upload them there for others to watch.

Just a thought.

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Look into something like livestream or ustream. I believe most streaming programs save your video online too. Some of the lets players I follow and comic creators I keep up on livestream themselves playing games or drawing the comic, so I'd guess it's not that hard, though the computer and network requirements could be pretty high.

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I prefer to do it somewhat brute-force; think of something interesting (a room, structure, whatever) and just open up DB an make it. If it doesn't look good after some attempts at tweaking, erase it and start over with another idea.

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exl said:

I prefer to do it somewhat brute-force; think of something interesting (a room, structure, whatever) and just open up DB an make it. If it doesn't look good after some attempts at tweaking, erase it and start over with another idea.


That's pretty much what i do myself. Except that i seem to set my objective too high for my current mapping skill. |:

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Reminds me when I've started it.
Maybe you're either too tired to make the desired detail pass to the levels you wanted, or... you are too strict to yourself. I'm not saying that you must quit mapping, just do this: if you're besides the computer, let yourself think and daydream about those hordes of level plans, and if you're in the very middle of it, then start mapping!
Hope it helped. Also, I'd love to see what you've produced with this method.

I'm sure you won't do things like: "Sand Chain", "Mattbratt's level pack", "Rangex's Entryway", etc.

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You sound just like me - I've maybe finished three Doom maps in my life, but they were all pretty simple. Interestingly enough I'd say that the more I map, the less likely I am to finish one, since I have more and more past material to compare things to. Someday I need to participate in a speedmapping compilation, but right now I just don't have the time.

I find that just "winging it" and mapping as I go along works best for me - until I start to worry about consistency, and scrap the project. If I plan in advance, sketching out the layout, I get frustrated that what I create ingame doesn't match the ideas I had in my head.

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I have a problem sitting down and start making stuff too sometimes. The way I have overcome that is by just turning on some cool music. It helps if the music is actually somehow related to the project (when I map for Doom, I turn on some dark chilling atmospheric music). While I sit there and listen to the music, I start to think that I could be doing something while I'm listening to it. And instead of grabbing a bag of potato chips, I open up DB2 and work on a level and let the music inspire me. (and then I go grab me some potato chips... or milk & cookies^^)

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Yeah I've always found music (preferably new music) to really aid to the ideas I have for creating layouts and stuff.

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Music is an absolute must for me. If not music then a movie. Hearing Doom music sometimes puts me in such a mood for doom, lately I've been hearing the Requiem soundtrack while mapping. :)

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Fourthing the music thing, I often get ideas for rooms, fights or even full maps from songs. Sometimes once I've picked a song for a map I keep listening to just that when mapping, which helps to map with the particular atmosphere in mind. Once I've got a good start with a map music becomes not-so-important, but it's a very good source of ideas during the early planning phase.

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Sometimes, it's pretty cool and inspiring to go on youtube and look at speedruns of maps you haven't seen or played before. Especially if it's a slaughter map! Finding a midi that works as music is pretty good for mapping too,

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40oz said:

Yeah I've always found music (preferably new music) to really aid to the ideas I have for creating layouts and stuff.

Oh yea, this would definitely be something worth trying. New music almost always puts me in the mood for mapping.

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If it's your final despair, I might show some of my maps, just to get some inspiration... right?

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fullmetalvaran33 said:

Awww...I like your maps, though. Insane slaughter fests with good architecture. I'd say you have nothing to worry about. You're doing just fine.

At least I'm expecting something way better than the work of mattbratt11 :D

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