Razer Onza

.

If you want the opinion of someone who isn't a PC elitist with his testicles in a knot over what other people spend money on, I'd see if you can try one in-store before buying. Had such awful luck with 3rd party controllers.

Kirby said:

But....But.....it's just an X-Box controller......just....fucking WHY?!!

Because it can be improved?

Seriously, I was going to ignore this thread but ffs guys grow up. The OP didn't ask if this controller was the best thing ever nor did he compare it keyboard and mouse. He just asked if anyone was interested and you all slag it off like buying a controller is tantamount to playing with a leprous dick.

Going by the arguments here we'd all still be using 2 button ball mice. But we're not. The mouse developed into a device which can be bought in pretty much exactly the configuration you're happy with. What's wrong with controllers doing the same?

BTW: I am not a fan boy. This thread just sounds to me like a bunch of smug geeks who 'know better' than the 'uncool' gamers out there who have yet to discover your preferred peripherals for PLAYING GAMES...

Per-Scan said:

Because it can be improved?

Seriously, I was going to ignore this thread but ffs guys grow up. The OP didn't ask if this controller was the best thing ever nor did he compare it keyboard and mouse. He just asked if anyone was interested and you all slag it off like buying a controller is tantamount to playing with a leprous dick.

Going by the arguments here we'd all still be using 2 button ball mice. But we're not. The mouse developed into a device which can be bought in pretty much exactly the configuration you're happy with. What's wrong with controllers doing the same?

OK, I should say that my post was more directed at the company who created the controller, not DuckReconMajor (although I am not excited about this controller at all either). Obviously it's the company's job to pimp this thing out to the public as much as possible, but it still irks me to hell and back when they do it. It looks just like a normal X-Box Controller, save face for the design on it and the enlarged/seperated D-Pad buttons. I'm not even sure I can think of a purpose for the Multi-Function Buttons, and if I were inclined to get this thing for some reason, the FAQ on the site even says you can't turn the MFB's off so you're stuck with them.

The fact that they even advertise things like "Hyper-Response Action Buttons" and "Quick Release USB connector" is absurd, and I realize I'm just going on a rant here, but FFS there is NOTHING that inclines me to get this over a standard controller and unless you have a particular use for the MFB's there shouldn't be any reason for anyone else to want this controller.

*Sigh* - that is all -_-

Yeah, they do seem to be overly pimping it, though I guess that is what companies do with commercial products. But I'm not interested, because the original Xbox controller and now the 360 controller are already vastly superior to my Saitek PC gamepad (stupid huge deadzones), and now that I have a cord for the 360 controller, I need to hook it up to my comp and try it with Doom and everything else.

But it looks almost worth it for that "improved d-pad", because other official and 3rd party manufacturers can't make d-pads the way Sega and Nintendo did decades ago...

Per-Scan said:

Because it can be improved?

Seriously, I was going to ignore this thread but ffs guys grow up. The OP didn't ask if this controller was the best thing ever nor did he compare it keyboard and mouse. He just asked if anyone was interested and you all slag it off like buying a controller is tantamount to playing with a leprous dick.

Going by the arguments here we'd all still be using 2 button ball mice. But we're not. The mouse developed into a device which can be bought in pretty much exactly the configuration you're happy with. What's wrong with controllers doing the same?

BTW: I am not a fan boy. This thread just sounds to me like a bunch of smug geeks who 'know better' than the 'uncool' gamers out there who have yet to discover your preferred peripherals for PLAYING GAMES...

You can look at basically any evolutionary product ever invented that comes out in newer and newer versions and find a certain pattern: In the early to mid stages, the product finds ways to overcome obvious technical limitations to provide a genuinely improved product that is desirable to consumers. For game controllers, this pattern continued until the late 90's or so. After this stage in a product's existence, it runs out of obvious ways to improve its product and so it must identify previously irrelevant limitations and "correct" them. This, coupled with heavy marketing is used to motivate consumers to buy newer iterations. Sometimes, this isn't enough to overcome weakening sales, and so companies will try to come up with nonexistent deficiencies with existing products use desperate marketing to fool consumers into believing they're buying an improved product. Fortunately for these companies, consumers have more money than brains (yes, even in an economy as crappy as this). This is why these companies and products continue to survive.

It all comes down to this: Do you want to be one of the consumers that continues to buy new versions of a product long after it has improved in any significant way, or do you want to be a consumer that uses his money wisely? Smart consumers identify every product's usefulness timeline and adjust accordingly.

Per-Scan said:

Going by the arguments here we'd all still be using 2 button ball mice. But we're not. The mouse developed into a device which can be bought in pretty much exactly the configuration you're happy with. What's wrong with controllers doing the same?

This isn't some kind of step towards developing a next gen controller or something like that. It's just a regular 360 controller with a bunch of unnecessary crap added on to it. Aside from the d pad, everything they're hyping about is either completely pointless or a step down from the regular controller. I mentioned the adjustable analogue sticks already which pretty much just amounts to adjusting their sensitivity from the menu, something you can do with any game for free. Then there's the extra long cord which again, is pointless because the regular controller is wireless. Rubberized coating surface to prevent slipping? I don't see how that'd be a problem unless you're the kind of person who flails their controller around while playing. And then there's the integrated headset support for xbox live. Yeah, my controller already has that. IIRC my original xbox controller had it too.

Craigs said:

Rubberized coating surface to prevent slipping? I don't see how that'd be a problem unless you're the kind of person who flails their controller around while playing.

We gotta be sensitive towards the n33ds of t3h 1337.

And the ricers.

Craigs said:

From the sound of it, it basically just boils down to adjusting the sensitivity of the analogue sticks, which is pretty pointless since every game for the 360 lets you do that from the options menu for free.

No, not really. The stick is just as sensitive no matter the resistance. If the resistance is all the way down and you're on low sensitivity, it's still going to take forever to turn around. This is more an issue of whether the resistance of the sticks is going to be beneficial to the style of play. For racing games you want more resistance to hold the stick in place and make a smooth turn. For FPS I really don't know. You'd want less resistance, since you're going to be making quick motions and don't need the pushback of the stick affecting your accuracy, but this push does help you make more accurate movements. But hey, when I get this controller, I can figure it out myself! Sounds stupid, I know, but if you've played both PS3 and 360 and noticed the difference in the sticks you'd know what I mean.

Use3D said:

If you want the opinion of someone who isn't a PC elitist with his testicles in a knot over what other people spend money on, I'd see if you can try one in-store before buying. Had such awful luck with 3rd party controllers.

Same here, I've never had a 3rd party controller that didn't break, and I've owned quite a few. However, this one looks kinda solid, so I'll give it a try.

Per-Scan said:

Seriously, I was going to ignore this thread but ffs guys grow up. The OP didn't ask if this controller was the best thing ever nor did he compare it keyboard and mouse. He just asked if anyone was interested and you all slag it off like buying a controller is tantamount to playing with a leprous dick.

Thanks. I expected this, though. I posted it because I know Fisk and a couple others here are interested in this kind of stuff. Also, I'm really bummed about not hearing anything about when this will be out, and Doomworld is my shoulder to cry on.

Kirby said:

OK, I should say that my post was more directed at the company who created the controller, not DuckReconMajor (although I am not excited about this controller at all either). Obviously it's the company's job to pimp this thing out to the public as much as possible, but it still irks me to hell and back when they do it. It looks just like a normal X-Box Controller, save face for the design on it and the enlarged/seperated D-Pad buttons. I'm not even sure I can think of a purpose for the Multi-Function Buttons, and if I were inclined to get this thing for some reason, the FAQ on the site even says you can't turn the MFB's off so you're stuck with them.

The fact that they even advertise things like "Hyper-Response Action Buttons" and "Quick Release USB connector" is absurd, and I realize I'm just going on a rant here, but FFS there is NOTHING that inclines me to get this over a standard controller and unless you have a particular use for the MFB's there shouldn't be any reason for anyone else to want this controller.

*Sigh* - that is all -_-

Yeah, I agree. For example, they say it's wired for better latency or something. It's really because Microsoft won't let 3rd parties make wireless controllers. It annoys me that they have to take what I think is shaping up to be a great product and water it down with exaggerated claims.

Also, you can just map the MFBs to the bumpers, which in my in my mind disables them, dunno if you'd feel the same.

AndrewB said:

You can look at basically any evolutionary product ever invented that comes out in newer and newer versions and find a certain pattern: In the early to mid stages, the product finds ways to overcome obvious technical limitations to provide a genuinely improved product that is desirable to consumers. For game controllers, this pattern continued until the late 90's or so. After this stage in a product's existence, it runs out of obvious ways to improve its product and so it must identify previously irrelevant limitations and "correct" them. This, coupled with heavy marketing is used to motivate consumers to buy newer iterations. Sometimes, this isn't enough to overcome weakening sales, and so companies will try to come up with nonexistent deficiencies with existing products use desperate marketing to fool consumers into believing they're buying an improved product. Fortunately for these companies, consumers have more money than brains (yes, even in an economy as crappy as this). This is why these companies and products continue to survive.

It all comes down to this: Do you want to be one of the consumers that continues to buy new versions of a product long after it has improved in any significant way, or do you want to be a consumer that uses his money wisely? Smart consumers identify every product's usefulness timeline and adjust accordingly.

Not having mouse-like control is an obvious technical limitation. And with every iteration, game controllers get closer to the mark.

Craigs said:

Then there's the extra long cord which again, is pointless because the regular controller is wireless.

Well, like I said earlier, they can't make it wireless, so every company that makes "professional" gear that has to be wired, they tend to throw in a longer cord.

Craigs said:

Rubberized coating surface to prevent slipping? I don't see how that'd be a problem unless you're the kind of person who flails their controller around while playing.

Yeah, more marketing buzz making it sound stupid. I and others just like the rubber feel.

Craigs said:

And then there's the integrated headset support for xbox live. Yeah, my controller already has that. IIRC my original xbox controller had it too.

Early photos of the Onza didn't show the headphone jack, and some people were stupid enough to think they'd make a competitive controller without headset support. They needed to make sure people knew it was there, but yet again, it's now being touted as a "feature", not to mention a way to plug their upcoming headset.

DuckReconMajor said:

some people were stupid enough to think they'd make a competitive controller without headset support

...as opposed to friendly or casual play controllers? Exactly what makes a controller "competitive" ? E.g. I bought a "gaming" mouse from LIDL with adjustable weight, heavyweight metallic scroll wheel and the such. Does that make me any more "competitive" or "1337 pr0 g4m3r"? Does it entitle me to scream random 1337speak "pwnage" quotes whenever I shoot someone with it? Sheesh.

AgentSpork said:

The d-pad on that thing looks fucking lame. I'll pass.

Can't be worse than the d-pad on the regular 360 controller.

I still got one of these:



which lasted me over 10 years of intense use and it still fills the asshole of any modern artsy-fartsy controller with concrete on many, many levels. If a newer USB version was re-released, I'd buy it again without a second thought. Also, don't be fooled by the shape, this thing is BIG. Well, wider than a Super Nintendo or Genesis controller anyway.

Maes said:

...as opposed to friendly or casual play controllers? Exactly what makes a controller "competitive" ? E.g. I bought a "gaming" mouse from LIDL with adjustable weight, heavyweight metallic scroll wheel and the such. Does that make me any more "competitive" or "1337 pr0 g4m3r"? Does it entitle me to scream random 1337speak "pwnage" quotes whenever I shoot someone with it? Sheesh.

Well, since a lot of "friendly", "casual" players say things like "I'm not spending that much on a controller", I don't see how it's unreasonable to say it's made for people who play competitively and take their performance in games a bit more seriously.

Wasn't all that expensive, about 17 Eur :-p

And it feels great for non-gaming stuff too. Everytime I press on that full-metal scrollwheel I feel my e-peen growing, savoring its 1337 inertia.

http://www.capsgetpeeled.com/blog/archives/atari-10in1.jpg
the classics are always sexier

Carnevil said:

Can't be worse than the d-pad on the regular 360 controller.

That's why I'm really hoping the redesigned silver xbox controller from Microsoft actually fixes the problem instead of adding some stupid gimmick (rotating d-pad? what?) that amplifies the problem rather than resolving it. But... I'll have to wait and see. If it does actually work as intended, you can bet your ass I'll pick up at least two of them, because I've been looking for the "perfect" gamepad for my needs for quite a while, and the XBOX controller is pretty much perfect outside of the godawful d-pad.

This Razer Onza thing just oozes "gimmicky nonsense" any normal person wouldn't find a use for, so I wouldn't dare touch this thing with a 10-foot pole. It's like those gaming mice that come with different sized weights that give you "unmatched control". I'll never understand the "pro" gamer market.

Anyone else notice that they recommend their wireless gaming headset in the description for the wired headset port?

DuckReconMajor said:

Well, since a lot of "friendly", "casual" players say things like "I'm not spending that much on a controller", I don't see how it's unreasonable to say it's made for people who play competitively and take their performance in games a bit more seriously.

Or maybe it's for people who just don't seem to realize how overpriced the shit these guys are selling are. Just take a look at some of their other stuff.

130 bucks for a mouse that looks more like a god damn phone? No thx.
100 bucks for a keyboard? Fuck that shit

It's not a matter of being a hardcore or casual gamer. It's a matter of having the common sense to know that this is all just over priced crap with gimmicky shit that you'll probably never even use. I can't think of any game where you'd need more that 4 buttons on your mouse.

Craigs said:

130 bucks for a mouse that looks more like a god damn phone? No thx.

Haha, please don't tell me there's actually people that use that garbage. That's some godawful design that harkens back to the Atari days when game controllers had numeric keypads on them. It's amazing that kind of controller design lasted all the way up until the Atari Jaguar. The Atari 5200 had joysticks with numeric keypads on them, and that was before games were even complex enough to warrant using more than 2 buttons, let alone like... 20?



Oh, but it's so COOL. You could map a mouse button to all of your spells in World of Warcraft!!! Totally not useless in 9 out of 10 other situations.


...Also, do people really respond better to bullshit terms like "Hypersponse" buttons? Crap like that makes me think of like... infomercials and shit.

AgentSpork said:

Oh, but it's so COOL. You could map a mouse button to all of your spells in World of Warcraft!!! Totally not useless in 9 out of 10 other situations.

So by your own admission and sarcasm it is useful in World of Warcraft and not just a useless gimmick for players of World of Warcraft. It might even be useful in 1 out of 10 other situations someone might care a fair deal about. Not to mention one armed computer users and gamers might find even more uses then you or I would. I'm glad it exists then, even if at an overblown price.

Although 5 to 6 mouse buttons and a keyboard are pretty much enough for Doom I think.

I feel that Controls and Input are such an important and personal aspect to gaming and immersion that I warmly welcome and consider every possibility of customization and comfort. Stick sensitivity, remapping, mouse buttons... I would love to see more options for people.

HackNeyed said:

So by your own admission and sarcasm it is useful in World of Warcraft and not just a useless gimmick for players of World of Warcraft. It might even be useful in 1 out of 10 other situations someone might care a fair deal about. Not to mention one armed computer users and gamers might find even more uses then you or I would. I'm glad it exists then, even if at an overblown price.

Although 5 to 6 mouse buttons and a keyboard are pretty much enough for Doom I think.

I feel that Controls and Input are such an important and personal aspect to gaming and immersion that I warmly welcome and consider every possibility of customization and comfort. Stick sensitivity, remapping, mouse buttons... I would love to see more options for people.

Obviously I'm out of the target market on this one. I prefer simplicity (because complexity sucks?), so these kinds of gadgets have limited appeal to me. And anyway, it appears to me that it's flawed from a design perspective as well. The area in which the buttons are located are where I (and surely most right-handed people) would normally be resting my thumb when I'm not trying to press buttons. It looks like if I even tried to do that with this mouse, I'd be constantly pushing buttons I didn't actually mean to push.

I actually have a wireless mouse I use for my home theater PC (This one) that's got a single button in that area, and I find myself hitting it accidentally all the god damn time. I can't even begin to imagine what it'd be like with nine buttons there.

This is the mouse I've got for everyday gaming and computing. It's got two buttons on the side of the mouse, but they're not in the way and they make web browsing a lot easier and provide what I would consider just right in terms of extra functionality. It's simple and functional, and I wouldn't have it any other way.

Although 5 to 6 mouse buttons and a keyboard are pretty much enough for Doom I think.

I dunno about you, but I can't even think of what 5-6 buttons would be used for in Doom. Cut that down to 1, maybe 2 (fire and use) and I'd say you're right about that.

HackNeyed said:

So by your own admission and sarcasm it is useful in World of Warcraft and not just a useless gimmick for players of World of Warcraft. It might even be useful in 1 out of 10 other situations someone might care a fair deal about. Not to mention one armed computer users and gamers might find even more uses then you or I would. I'm glad it exists then, even if at an overblown price.

soooo 130 bucks just so you don't have to move your fingers a few inches to hit the number keys? Sounds like a good deal to me!

AgentSpork said:

This is the mouse I've got for everyday gaming and computing. It's got two buttons on the side of the mouse, but they're not in the way and they make web browsing a lot easier and provide what I would consider just right in terms of extra functionality. It's simple and functional, and I wouldn't have it any other way.

*hi 5* I've been using this mouse for quite a while now. I love having the two side buttons for web browsing, but I hit them on accident sometimes when filling out a form (or a DW forum post, heh). I have the adjustable sensitivity disabled as well. So yes, I see where you're coming from.

However, some people want these extra features, and not just because they were told they did. I want this controller because I played Halo Reach and found that sprinting in CoD with a shoulder button is a wonderful thing. I also know that adjusting the sensitivity will improve my aim. The other stuff are bonuses that are nice but that I don't really need.

AgentSpork said:

The area in which the buttons are located are where I (and surely most right-handed people) would normally be resting my thumb when I'm not trying to press buttons. It looks like if I even tried to do that with this mouse, I'd be constantly pushing buttons I didn't actually mean to push.

Some people hold the mouse with only their fingers, sort of forming a cage around the mouse.

As for the new 360 controller, I was excited at first but early hands-ons said it's the same wobbly pad with a different shape and that improvements are minimal. It might have changed since then.

AgentSpork said:

That's why I'm really hoping the redesigned silver xbox controller from Microsoft actually fixes the problem instead of adding some stupid gimmick (rotating d-pad? what?) that amplifies the problem rather than resolving it. But... I'll have to wait and see. If it does actually work as intended, you can bet your ass I'll pick up at least two of them, because I've been looking for the "perfect" gamepad for my needs for quite a while, and the XBOX controller is pretty much perfect outside of the godawful d-pad.

Yeah, I completely agree. From what I've seen, it looks like they specifically did the rotating d-pad specifically to fix the issues people were having with the d-pad. So, I would think it'd be unlikely that they'd strike out on that after putting so much time, money, and effort into it.

But, it's Microsoft, so I wouldn't put that past them :)

Backlighting I could understand for a keyboard, but the face buttons? You don't need backlighting, you need to use your controller enough for muscle memory to take over so you aren't fumbling around with the face buttons.

The adjustable analog tension sounds nice, but I like the tension on the default controllers. For a PS3 version of the controller, I would see this as a plus since there is very little tension on their analog thumbsticks.

I could see the MFBs being useful in replacing the trigger buttons. I hate using the trigger buttons for actions that require fast tapping (e.g. semi-auto firearm). The Hyperesponse buttons I don't get. The face buttons are not hard to push down and release.

And since we're talking about mice, thirded for the MX 518. Comfortable, durable, has those side buttons that are great for web browser and whatnot. Not keen on the adjustable sensitivity buttons because they're hard to hit, so I just set it to 1600 dpi and leave it at that. Plus people think it looks jacked up. Only thing missing is sidescrolling on the mousewheel.

Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer 2 is no shit, the best mouse ever made, in fact it was so popular that M$ brought it back from the dead several years after they stopped making them.

You know it's pointless debating with someone who has already paid for a good, no matter how rational your argumentation is.

Sometimes it's also unusually hard to warn people about a product's shortcomings before they finally shell out the cast, let alone after. Good luck with that.

Cases in point: Apple products, SBI website hosting, Herbalife products, Multilevel marketing schemes etc.

Your post changed, don't lie.

HWGuy said:

Backlighting I could understand for a keyboard, but the face buttons?

I don't know man, those console controllers are really complex! There are like, 9 buttons, two triggers, two analogue sticks, and a d-pad, that's like, a lot of buttons!

That, or the "it looks 'cool' so let's put it on there and hope people like the fanciness well enough to not care about the substandard design of everything else" excuse.

Hmm, I've got a Razer Mouse + Keyboard and I love 'em, if only because the mouse (Orochi) is a helluva lot more smooth than the old POS I had. They function well, and I actually end up using the in-game sensitivity adjust buttons quite often. Can't quite claim that it's the best ever without actually trying everything, but it works well and I'm happy with it, so there.

Though it's not so much a problem seeing how the default Xbox controllers are pretty solid (sans d-pad), at least I'm positive that Razer will construct the Onza well, unlike every single MadCatz anything I've had the misfortune of owning.

As for backlighting, isn't the whole point of that just to look fancy anyway? I don't exactly find myself forgetting where all the keys are and needing to actually needing to look for one too often. :P