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pcorf

Pcorf community project (fun and easy going)

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Also I'm thinking about moving MAP17 into the first episode so MAP17 becomes MAP10 while the current MAP10 becomes MAP11.

The main WAD will contain mostly no new music while the music WAD will contain all our original music will be be separate.

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Changes made

- All music removed from main WAD and put into PCCPMUS.WAD
- Sky from MAP01-MAP11 removed, now uses just the standard Doom 2 sky.
- MAP28 "Doom builder likes to deletes textures" lift bug fixed, plus all lava made -20% damage.
- MAP17 moved to MAP10.
- MAP10 moved to MAP11.
- MAP11 moved to MAP17.

Plans

- Add Doom 2's MAP28 music into MAP25 in main WAD
- Add TNT Evilution MAP31/intermission music into MAP26 in main WAD

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If you put the music in a separate wad file, what music plays without it? D_RUNNIN on map01? What music is in the separate wad?

Also I wouldn't recommend leaving the default sky it looks kinda amateur and ugly to do that IMO.

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just a few things you might want to look into before you submit the final version...

i'm not sure if anyone mentioned this so far, but map20 has monsters in ground springtraps(?) that are never activated. the trapholes are tagged 6 and 7, but there's no linedef assigned to them. in effect you just get blocked and bitten a lot in prboom+. also some HOMs around the map.

map23, overall spacing problem aside, has a large amount of blocking hanging bodies to make the map even more claustrophobic in pr+. also some of the chaingunners around the PE room stand under such bodies which renders them stuck and harmless. some of the barons that teleport after clearing all levels also seem to get stuck. red and blue keys can be easily swiped from across the fence.

one of the secrets on map08 (sector 454) is too small and close to a wall, so it's impossible to trigger it. the sector is in another secret and doesn't seem to have any purpose anyways, so i'm guessing forgetfulness in removing it.

map15 at the very end where two AVs jump you: i was looking for the secret exit and the regular one looks suspiciously AVjump-prone. so i jumped over the small wall. and got stuck. i recommend impassible lines, cause i can see this could happen even by accident.

map32: i am not sure what's happening, but i can't trigger door linedef 3653 without idclipping a bit into it in pr+. zdoom opens it just fine, but it seems to be blocked somehow in vanilla-likes.

map21 is ridiculously low on ammo. i've got nothing against "run for your life" maps, but as of now it's the only map in the megawad that cannot be maxed, which seems awfully inconsistent. this could be easily remedied by awarding a berserk near the beginning, so player can tyson the level and save ammo for the exit room snipers.

map13: the plasma secret is triggered by shooting one of the COMPWERD panels.. wow, given how tight ammo is on the map, shooting random identical walls is rather low priority. wouldn't SR-action be enough?

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Captain Toenail said:

If you put the music in a separate wad file, what music plays without it? D_RUNNIN on map01? What music is in the separate wad?

Also I wouldn't recommend leaving the default sky it looks kinda amateur and ugly to do that IMO.


The separate wad music is all the same music as before.

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Right, given the difficulty of my map, late first episode does indeed make sense, and it goes better with a brown sky than it does with a white/grey one, so that seems alright to me.

The music thing has me rather confused now. Are people getting the music they want in their maps if specified? Or is this literally "IWAD music only in the map wad, with the optional music wad being the same as before"?

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Phobus said:

Right, given the difficulty of my map, late first episode does indeed make sense, and it goes better with a brown sky than it does with a white/grey one, so that seems alright to me.

The music thing has me rather confused now. Are people getting the music they want in their maps if specified? Or is this literally "IWAD music only in the map wad, with the optional music wad being the same as before"?


Yeah I don't know what I was thinking with the optional music and then started to realize that you always hear the same stuff. I cannot edit the first post. Frustrating. I'm going to go with mostly IWAD music in the main wad, and the original stuff in a seperate wad.

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Right - please be sure to include the music people submitted with their maps in the main wad, corresponding to the correct map, as that was their original wish though. By that I mean Pablo's original score, Dutch's Duke3D midi, etc.

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Phobus said:

Right - please be sure to include the music people submitted with their maps in the main wad, corresponding to the correct map, as that was their original wish though. By that I mean Pablo's original score, Dutch's Duke3D midi, etc.


Pablo's song is in the music wad.

Just give me some time, okay. I will get back to this at a later date.

Fixed problems in MAP32, MAP15, MAP28, and the other maps mentioned just before, etc.

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Phobus said:

Right, given the difficulty of my map, late first episode does indeed make sense, and it goes better with a brown sky than it does with a white/grey one, so that seems alright to me.

The music thing has me rather confused now. Are people getting the music they want in their maps if specified? Or is this literally "IWAD music only in the map wad, with the optional music wad being the same as before"?


That's why I moved the map into E1, brown sky.

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HEY GUYS

PLEASE EMAIL ME YOUR ORIGINAL SUBMITTED MIDI FILES EXCEPT FOR MAP02, MAP16 AND MAP32

THANKS

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pcorf said:

Indeed. I sent Ty an email as a request to reject pccp.zip from the archives so we can fix a few problems.


Sorry, Paul. Didn't see that email (can't find it either so maybe the spamonster ate it) so I merged pccp yesterday. I've just removed it and in doing so noticed that the link into Newstuff wasn't there (not sure what that's about) so it's likely few if any noticed it.

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Ty Halderman said:

Sorry, Paul. Didn't see that email (can't find it either so maybe the spamonster ate it) so I merged pccp yesterday. I've just removed it and in doing so noticed that the link into Newstuff wasn't there (not sure what that's about) so it's likely few if any noticed it.


Thanks mate.

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I've found all the original levels with submitted midi files so I'm going to put all the submitted midi files into the main wad ..... good news to Phobus.

The music wad meanwhile contains my music as it was before.

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Ragnor said:

<3


I quite agree. =P

So this means map 29 will get "They're Going To Get You" and map 23 will get "Doom II map 31" music too, right, pcorf? Just making sure.

Almost feels as if we're in the nineties again, with new music in a seperate wad. Nostalgia FTW? ^^

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I've been playing some of the levels in this mod... I just have to say that the fact that different authors mean different level styles, makes this megawad very interesting. Sadly, some of the levels are so mega-difficult for a player of my skill :lol:

Especially funny thing sequence is "A Vile Piece" -> "Entryway to Earth". First one is mega-hard (fighting two Cybies at once with arch-viles rampaging around in the background), the second being a tad easier. Need I say that I enjoyed the latter more (because I didn't burst anything playing that!)

The latter actually reminded me of old-school levels, with some very creative uses of basic textures...

all in all, loads of very creative stuff we have in this pack :)

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pcorf said:

HEY GUYS

PLEASE EMAIL ME YOUR ORIGINAL SUBMITTED MIDI FILES EXCEPT FOR MAP02, MAP16 AND MAP32

THANKS

So are the original tracks on my levels going to be taken out? I hope not, but if so, then MAP13 could be "Sadistic" from TNT and MAP30 could be "Into The Beast's Belly" also from TNT.

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Hey guys, after testing your maps in modern prboom+ always remember to look into stdout.txt for possible bug reports!

For example, incorrect flat assignment was 'solved' (on zdoom manner) in prboom+ 2483, but other boom-compatible ports (including latest generic prboom) will exit with error on such issue.

m24:

R_FlatNumForName: METAL not found
R_FlatNumForName: METAL not found
bad texture 'FLOOR6_1-' in sidedef 734
bad texture 'FLOOR6_1-' in sidedef 838
bad texture 'RROCK01' in sidedef 1659
bad texture 'FLAT22' in sidedef 2927
bad texture 'FLOOR6_1-' in sidedef 3376
m29:
bad texture 'FLOOR7_2-' in sidedef 11105
bad texture 'FLAT14' in sidedef 12955
bad texture 'FLAT14' in sidedef 12967
bad texture 'FLAT5_4' in sidedef 13133
bad texture 'FLAT5_4' in sidedef 13134
bad texture 'FLAT5_4' in sidedef 13135
bad texture 'FLAT5_4' in sidedef 13136
bad texture 'FLAT5_4' in sidedef 13137
bad texture 'FLAT5_4' in sidedef 13158
bad texture 'FLAT5_4' in sidedef 13291
bad texture 'FLAT5_4' in sidedef 13292
bad texture 'FLAT5_4' in sidedef 13293
bad texture 'FLAT5_4' in sidedef 13371
bad texture 'FLAT5_4' in sidedef 13372
bad texture 'FLAT5_4' in sidedef 13373
bad texture 'FLAT14' in sidedef 14035
bad texture 'FLAT14' in sidedef 14039
bad texture 'FLAT14' in sidedef 14045
bad texture 'FLAT14' in sidedef 14057
bad texture 'FLAT14' in sidedef 14064
bad texture 'FLAT14' in sidedef 14071
bad texture 'FLAT14' in sidedef 14075
bad texture 'FLAT14' in sidedef 14101
bad texture 'FLAT14' in sidedef 14102
bad texture 'FLAT14' in sidedef 14103
bad texture 'FLOOR6_1-' in sidedef 16195
bad texture 'NUKAGE1' in sidedef 18799
bad texture 'CEIL5_1' in sidedef 25518
bad texture 'CEIL5_1' in sidedef 25519
bad texture 'CEIL5_1' in sidedef 25572
bad texture 'CEIL5_1' in sidedef 25573
P_SpawnMapThing: Unknown Thing type 9027 at (-1808, 88)
P_SpawnMapThing: Unknown Thing type 9027 at (3408, -1296)
P_SpawnMapThing: Unknown Thing type 9027 at (3408, -1200)
P_SpawnMapThing: Unknown Thing type 9027 at (3432, -1248)
P_SpawnMapThing: Unknown Thing type 9027 at (3736, -1248)
P_SpawnMapThing: Unknown Thing type 9027 at (3760, -1200)
P_SpawnMapThing: Unknown Thing type 9027 at (3760, -1296)

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pcorf said:

HEY GUYS

PLEASE EMAIL ME YOUR ORIGINAL SUBMITTED MIDI FILES EXCEPT FOR MAP02, MAP16 AND MAP32

THANKS


ok...

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Another note for the next release: In the big credits graphic, my nick seems to be spelled "JERRSHEPPY." If it's easy to change that, do; if it'd be a hassle you really don't need to worry about it. It's not like I'm going to get confused with someone else :P

Playing through the rest of the maps so I can do one last little write-up. Hope people other than those who've replied are interested in reading my comments on their maps; I've tried to accentuate the positive and be constructive. Which isn't hard when nearly all of the maps show some very nice work :)

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MAP29 (Seven Dead Disciples by Keeper of Jericho): Two things stood out about this map. First of all, it mixes so many different hellish styles and textures in a way that absolutely works. In part this is because random and abstract architecture has been a staple of Doom's hell from the beginning, but the compartmentalized nature of the map also helps. The courtyard works well as the unifying feature of the map; it's not too large and there's a lot to look at, so it avoids the 'bland' impression that some of the other large open spaces in this megawad have left me with. The second thing that stood out is that it has that epic feel that a MAP29 should have, and this I think is pretty closely tied in with point #1, in that the diverse array of scenery and myriad places to go (but with the unifying theme of thrones to tie it all together) make it feel like an adventure. This is probably tied with MAP16 for my favorite now, simply because it's so important for a MAP29 to be strong and this nails it. (Of course, I don't think Keeper probably knew what map slot this would end up getting, but the point is that he made such a map so that pcorf could put it where it needed to go.)

MAP30 (Unforgiven valkiriforce): Not really sure what to say about this one. I'm not sure how well the homages (an obvious one to E4M8 and what seemed like one to Doom2 MAP26) work in an Icon of Sin map, though the homages themselves were well done. I liked the starting area with its caves full of tortured victims leading off into the darkness, and the 'figure out the right height' mechanic of the Icon fight itself was a nifty new idea, but I sort of feel like the map would have been equally good if not better if it was just those two areas instead of having a key hunt (even a short one).

MAP32 (Morgue Theft by ArmouredBlood): This map is too big. That's not to say that I reject 1500-monster levels on principle, though they're not my favorite in any case. But this map doesn't give me a fun enough or visually appealing enough time killing those 1500 monsters. Another way of putting it is that while this map does have some areas I liked looking at and playing--the outdoor area with the stone walls and railings and the red door, the computer maze area with the yellow door--there were a lot of areas that I felt were too huge/long and bland and/or had gameplay that felt like busywork (the one place where you open like eight successive symmetrical monster traps is an example of this). It seems as though you could basically cut all these areas out and still have a decently sized (and more enjoyable) map. When I got about 500 monsters in I realized I wasn't having much fun and was basically just playing the map because I felt like I ought to, which is a silly reason, so I stopped. Sorry ArmouredBlood :(

Now for the 'bonus episode'!

MAP33 (Malle Brok by Chris Hansen): Love this little map! Nice clean sectorwork, crisp and interesting without being overdetailed. Nice use of height variation, lighting variation, and texture/flat mixes that look "Doom natural"--all things I feel I have problems with myself, so I'm impressed to see them done well. Overall the effect reminds me a lot of Doom2 MAP26, except in a slightly less hellish way, maybe. The lift that services three floors was interesting; hardly an entirely new idea but it doesn't get used much and so was cool to see it here. If it were my decision to make, I would in good conscience have to say that my map08 should be moved to the bonus episode and this map should be in Ep1 somewhere.

MAP34 (Necromancy by Adrian Hanekom): A few too many hitscanner traps given the amount of health and armor the player has to work with, in my opinion. And a way to get back to the first area after dropping down into the 'mine' might be nice. Looks nice and, the aforementioned aside, plays nice. IMO could have easily earned a spot in the first episode, and I don't envy pcorf his having to make all the cuts!

MAP35 (Piss Factory by Chris "Purist" Bourke): I'm using this word a lot in my reviews, but here goes anyway: this map feels classic, like a (well-made) 94 or 95 map. The area with the slime and crushers in particular strikes me as quintessentially Doomy, and I loved getting the drop on those chaingunners who thought they were going to ambush me! The gameplay does seem rough in some parts, particularly the mancubus hallway/room, where I think having a rocket launcher with at least a small supply of ammo would have made it flow a bit more nicely.

MAP36 (Rehabilitated Warehouse by Impboy): Wood paneling, stone, and green marble: what do they mean for the looks of a level? If you answered "Episode 4," yeah, that's what I would have said too, but this level manages to use these textures to carve out a look for itself that strikes me as very unique (and looks good, of course). The warehouse part seems to consist of one room with crates, and I'm not sure what's rehabilitated about it unless you're a press agent for the hellspawn, but hey, as they've been saying over in the DTWID thread, level names that don't actually describe what the level looks like are a pretty classic (there's that word again!) feature of Doom! Some more ammo would have been nice, I had to take a bunch of extra damage chainsawing Former Humans so I could get enough shotgun shells to kill some Hell Knights.

MAP37 (Pumping Station by TrueDude): The map layout of this level seems solid, but I think to really put some polish on it some more riffs on the "green brick/blue water" theme would be nice. Not that those two textures as the core of the theme don't work, because I think they do, but some more variants/complementary textures like maybe ICKWALL or SLADWALL on detail bits would have helped put it over the top. You already start doing this with some nice silver and vertical pipe textures in a few areas; I liked those, and don't get me wrong, I like the "old mossy waterworks" theme you're going for! I also found a bug: the barred windows behind the blue key door, overlooking the room just to the northeast, don't seem to be flagged impassable.

MAP38 (Liquid Facility by Philnemba): Honestly, this map felt a bit flat and rectangular. This is a criticism that could be leveled against my MAP08 as well, but it's often easier to see the mote in your neighbor's eye than the beam in your own. :) It also seemed like it was a mix of themes that didn't really know what it wanted to be--I saw some Underhalls and some Knee Deep in the Dead and maybe some Evilution episode 1? I thought the nukage tunnels were a neat area and the gameplay was overall smooth and fun in a laid-back sort of way.

MAP39 (At Hell's Gate X by Walter "Daimon" Confalonieri): This is the second of the maps made by Walter that I've really liked. It's a generally well-laid-out and well-textured city built into the landscape of Hell, with plenty of eye candy and generally good gameplay --I didn't like the rooms just crammed with former humans early on, but after that there were some nice fights. And I finally got a non-secret rocket launcher, on which basis alone Walter gets a thumbs up from me :P IMO this map deserved to be in the main episode more than MAP09, MAP18, or MAP31. But as always, that's just me.

MAP40 (The Decieved by Philnemba): This map felt a little unpolished--there were some spots like the crate hallway and the teleport trap near the end with the invulnerability where it felt like the architecture had been laid down in a hurry and never tweaked. But I had fun playing it. The first part with the semi-corrupted base built into a canyonlike area gave me slightly Half-Life 1 vibes, and the Hell section, while simple, looks perfectly nice. And the final battle was exciting; I died once before I realized there was a Megasphere in the arena, after that it was pretty easy but still required some tactical thinking :)

Whew! That's it. Thank you all for helping put together this project for us all to play. I enjoyed the vast majority of these maps a lot, and the few that I thought were a bit sketchy, I'm sure someone else enjoyed playing. I think this megawad has something for everyone!

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jerrysheppy said:

MAP23 (Express Elevator to Hell 2 by Keeper of Jericho): This is another case where I'm not a big fan of the map's "model," but some nice design, in the sense of texturing and architecture, let me mostly enjoy it while I followed the straight keyless path to the exit, even though I wasn't enamored of the gimmick. Gameplay-wise I didn't think any of the fights per se were unfair or unfun but I would have liked some more health, especially on skill 3; there were a few traps and such where I don't know if I could have made it through if I hadn't been toting heavy weaponry/extra ammo along from previous maps, and this was largely due to having very low amounts of health to work with at those points in the level...


Thanks for the feedback. TEETH2 was the map that had me nervous since it's a sequel map, but the general opinion so far seems to be that it's an okay map, which is the best I could hope for since I'm still relatively new to mapping. Though I can assure you you can get through the map with 100% kills from pistol start. Getting to the super secret area might help with that, though.

jerrysheppy said:

MAP26 (Walls of Jericho by Keeper of Jericho): I almost don't know what to write here. I admire the idea this map was trying to pull off, but it really didn't work for me. In the Doom engine, which doesn't let you have any vision of or detail on the undersides of the 'floating' walls, they end up looking rather silly IMO, less like 'this is a weird dimension where walls float in the void' and more like 'the ground is missing.' The constant teleport traps on the top of the walls also got really tiresome, but again I don't know if there's really any other good way to 'hide' monsters since the level concept means the player will be able to see more or less across the entire level. I can absolutely appreciate the skill and effort that went into making this map, but it just doesn't work for me as a pretty or enjoyable map to play.


I'm sorry my map failed to impress, though in all honesty "Walls of Jericho" is my personal favourite from my "Keeper's Trilogy" maps I made for this project. I can agree that because of Doom's limitation no-ground maps can not look as good if you're not a fan of floating-in-space in the first place. I'm curious now as to what you think of Hell Revealed's map "Afterlife", which had a similar concept. I'm sorry this map ended up skip-material for you, I did my best regardless. Thanks for the feedback.

jerrysheppy said:

MAP29 (Seven Dead Disciples by Keeper of Jericho): Two things stood out about this map. First of all, it mixes so many different hellish styles and textures in a way that absolutely works. In part this is because random and abstract architecture has been a staple of Doom's hell from the beginning, but the compartmentalized nature of the map also helps. The courtyard works well as the unifying feature of the map; it's not too large and there's a lot to look at, so it avoids the 'bland' impression that some of the other large open spaces in this megawad have left me with. The second thing that stood out is that it has that epic feel that a MAP29 should have, and this I think is pretty closely tied in with point #1, in that the diverse array of scenery and myriad places to go (but with the unifying theme of thrones to tie it all together) make it feel like an adventure. This is probably tied with MAP16 for my favorite now, simply because it's so important for a MAP29 to be strong and this nails it. (Of course, I don't think Keeper probably knew what map slot this would end up getting, but the point is that he made such a map so that pcorf could put it where it needed to go.)


Whew, I'm glad at least one of my maps managed to leave a big impression. ^^ I have to admit I was quite honoured when Pcorf gave me map 29. He had told me it would be late in the megawad but I never expected to get 29. Seeing your words here, though, I can agree, if that doesn't sound too snobbish, that this map would be what I personally would look for in a map 29 as well. Though I did not design it with that in mind, I just wanted to make a good map. ^^" It's great to see one of my maps getting a "favourite map" spot, it's the best reward as a mapper. Thanks for the feedback, it's really appreciated. =)

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Also finished playing through this...

Map17: Despite the negative comments made about this map I really enjoyed it, it has it's own distinct style, the outdoor area will probably look twice as good with a brown sky. The indoor areas were great fun and well thought out... the only thing I didn't like was all the bumps in the floor in the outside section, I started feeling like a roller coaster. :P

Map18: A nice map by Walter, I didn't like the homage to DooM 2 with the spider mastermind and cyberdemon but the rest of the map is great, and plays very well.

Map19: Magicsofa was clearly on drugs when he made this, a really nice level with crazy gameplay and crazy architecture, the finishing area is a nice touch. :)

Map20: Some of the outdoor areas were eye sores to look at, but this map plays beautifully, and was the first time in history for me where a slaughter map actually felt refreshing.

Map21: A decent map, but it didn't really leave that much of an impression. Rehabilitated Warehouse also made by Impboy kicks the living shit out of this map, really Pcorf, please swap the maps around?

Map22: An epic masterpiece, a very powerful atmosphere, great architecture that leaves you feeling insignificant. Very creative gameplay and creative level design. It's maps like these that are the reason I still play DooM.

Map23: A nice map, looks great, fun gameplay. However a few too many bumps in the walls to get stuck on, I got hit by the cyber demon because I got stuck on a bump. The cramped nature of this map was actually refreshing.

Map24: A very fun map! It starts out a bit sketchy but it quickly becomes one of my favorite out of the lot, it didn't drag at all for me because the gameplay and atmosphere kept me on the edge, fun layout as well. Jointritual, really good for a debut map! :)

Map25: A well textureed and fun map and a worthy sequel to one of my favorite DooM 2 levels! The ending had me, I really was celebrating being able to finish this level in my first go without dying then suddenly I'm getting trampled and being made a cyberdemon's bitch. ;'(

Map26: A neat concept, and a really cool atmosphere each encounter was very fun. This map and Map29 suffered from the same problem though, too much wall detail panels that eventually become painful to look at, Keeper, I'm not bashing your maps, because I really enjoy your style of mapping, but you need to give textures some breathing room and save panel detailing for where you really want it to count.

Map27: An excellent map with a well thought out layout, this is as perfect as redrock hellish map can get I think, I really enjoyed the slaughter part of this level.

Map28: Another masterpiece, a lot of striking scenes, out of the ordinary gameplay which plays fantastically, I also really loved the usage of cyber demons. I was so blown away by this map that when I finished it I knew I wasn't going to enjoy another level so I called it a night. For some reason both of jerrysheppy's maps both reminded a little bit of Icarus, which is a good thing, but I can't put my finger on exactly what reminds me of Icarus, probably the quirky but awesome gameplay.

Map29: Very well designed level with fun gameplay, cyber demon battles were great fun as well, and the ending with the slaughter was very well put together. As I said in Map26 the gameplay is fun, but the repeated usage of wall panels gets a bit much after a while.

Map30: Awesome map, nice to see a map made which looks so great with such little detail... that's something I've never been good at. :P Icon of Sin battle was great as well. I'm glad you put the those three key areas in, because at the time I played it I was psyched up to kill some monsters the normal way.

Extra levels:

Map33: A good looking and compact level, a little bit too much focus on small scale detail for my liking but still a fun map to run through and shoot monsters with some tricky situations.

Map34: My map, woooo!!!

Map35: A decent level, but it really felt a little too dark for my liking in parts where it shouldn't be dark, I found myself squinting at the monitor just to see what going on, anyway gameplay was still great and that's what counts the most.

Map36: This map really shouldn't be in this section because it's a great level. I preffered it to a few maps which were in the main wad.

Map37: Simplistic but attractive level with fun gameplay and interesting layout, I really enjoyed how this level played.

Map38: Good layout + Good gameplay + Classic level of detail = Awesome! Haha sorry I'm getting burnt out with words to say, but I really enjoyed this map.

Map39: Nice classic looking hellish level that also plays very nicely.

Map40: A very good map which kept "decieving" me haha. I kept seeing exits and running into them like a hippy running through the meadows and then consequently getting beaten up, however I managed to stay alive at the end of each encounter... the ambush with the invulnerability was awesome, I was trapped and surrounded by revenants and only normal ammunition, chaingun was working too slowly and my invulnerability was running out fast, I knew that as soon as the invulnerability wore I'd be dead so I whipped out my chainsaw and grinded my way through them at much a faster rate and managed to escape the mob. First time in my DooMing career that the chainsaw saved me a lot of frustration :P The ending battle was a very nice way to finish off what I think is a good episode.



All my playthroughs were without using saves by the way, except for map11.

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pcorf said:

I've found all the original levels with submitted midi files so I'm going to put all the submitted midi files into the main wad ..... good news to Phobus.

The music wad meanwhile contains my music as it was before.


Good news indeed - thank you very much for sorting that out :)

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Keeper of Jericho said:

Thanks for the feedback. TEETH2 was the map that had me nervous since it's a sequel map, but the general opinion so far seems to be that it's an okay map, which is the best I could hope for since I'm still relatively new to mapping. Though I can assure you you can get through the map with 100% kills from pistol start. Getting to the super secret area might help with that, though.


To be honest, I never would have guessed you were relatively new to mapping. Your maps all say to me that you're adept and take great care in your mapping; that wasn't in question. It's just that the gimmicks you tried (or, in this case, borrowed from the original TEETH) didn't quite work out for me in two of your three maps.

I'm sorry my map failed to impress, though in all honesty "Walls of Jericho" is my personal favourite from my "Keeper's Trilogy" maps I made for this project. I can agree that because of Doom's limitation no-ground maps can not look as good if you're not a fan of floating-in-space in the first place. I'm curious now as to what you think of Hell Revealed's map "Afterlife", which had a similar concept. I'm sorry this map ended up skip-material for you, I did my best regardless. Thanks for the feedback.



Again, it 'impressed' me in terms of what you put into making it, it's just that at the end of the map, I didn't feel like it had completely worked out for me. In any case, it wasn't skip-material in the way MAP32 ended up being (sorry again, ArmouredBlood!).

If I can make a bit of an analogy--I'm currently pursuing creative writing at a graduate-program level, and I've had professors and readers have to tell me, 'You're a fine writer, but this story just isn't working out--you need to junk it, or at least put it aside completely, and start over.' That's how I feel about your map. But if you are satisfied with how it turned out, you probably shouldn't listen to me.

In response to your question about "Afterlife," I have to admit it's probably been more than a decade since I played through HR and I don't have it on my computer. But a couple of other maps that come to mind are the void map of Realm of Cheogsh and the final map of Ultimate Torment and Torture (both non-vanilla maps, admittedly). In the first case, I really didn't like it because while he is able to use the tools of GZDoom to let the player see the 'undersides' of the floating platforms and have them be at different levels, the detail level frankly sucks--it's just a bunch of bland marble platforms floating around, like a very early platforming game and not in a good way. If these capabilities of GZDoom were to be combined with the level of detail you put into "Walls of Jericho," I think it would work a lot better. As for UTNT's last map, with a mountain floating in the starry void, I think it works because it feels like there's a "base" to it. There's a sort of gravity-defying lava lake hugging the base of the mountain, which then has lava falls trailing off into blackness. So for me at least, that works better than the structures you made in your map, where I have the impression of the walls just going straight down and then being cut off--as though they're continuing into an underground foundation, except there's no ground for them to be in. :)

Whew--I hope that wasn't more of a response than you wanted to read.

Whew, I'm glad at least one of my maps managed to leave a big impression. ^^ I have to admit I was quite honoured when Pcorf gave me map 29. He had told me it would be late in the megawad but I never expected to get 29. Seeing your words here, though, I can agree, if that doesn't sound too snobbish, that this map would be what I personally would look for in a map 29 as well. Though I did not design it with that in mind, I just wanted to make a good map. ^^" It's great to see one of my maps getting a "favourite map" spot, it's the best reward as a mapper. Thanks for the feedback, it's really appreciated. =)


If I think back over a lot of the 'classic' MAP29s--Doom 2's, both of Final Doom's, AV's, and maybe ones like WOS that aren't old enough to be 'classic' but still left a good impression on me, it seems like there are a couple of ways to go about it. You can have it open with a single, memorable vista that sticks in the player's mind; AV's "Fire Walk With Me" is probably the perfect example. Or it can be an epic "let's go on a journey" thing which may or may not be nonlinear--all the rest fit into this, though I would argue that "The Living End" fits into both categories. And yes, yours is a good example of the latter one, it feels like the player is on a quest to clear out these sort of 'council chambers' at the heart of hell and slay the seven unholy disciples before he continues on to confront their master, the Icon of Sin/Baphomet. As I said, each of the areas has its own character and yet they're all tied together by the iconic throne rooms at the ends and the returns through the central courtyard.

Why did I like this so much better than TEETH2, which on the surface looks like it has a similar structure? I'd say there are a couple reasons. For one thing, TEETH2 is really a bit too cramped for me; some claustrophobia is nice in Doom maps but it really starts to seem relentless in TEETH2. If you look at id's original Doom maps, there are a lot of places where the player spends some time running through small slime tunnels or whatever and there are usually some zombies/imps/demons/spectres to get in his/her way, but you almost never fight dozens of Barons (closest thing to Revenants/Archviles) in such circumstances. Those are reserved for the wide-open areas, of which there are still plenty in the maps. :)

Also, TEETH2's central hub just had a different feel to me than Seven Dead Disciples's. I was actually looking forward to returning to MAP29's courtyard each time because I knew I'd get to have a nice shootout with a cyberdemon--almost like 'cleansing my palate' before the next area of the map. Whereas with TEETH2 the elevator, and fighting new/released enemies in it, felt like an annoyance. I enjoyed it well enough, as I tried to emphasize in my review, but it was despite, not because of, the elevator gimmick. :)

DeathevokatioN said:

Map28: Another masterpiece, a lot of striking scenes, out of the ordinary gameplay which plays fantastically, I also really loved the usage of cyber demons. I was so blown away by this map that when I finished it I knew I wasn't going to enjoy another level so I called it a night. For some reason both of jerrysheppy's maps both reminded a little bit of Icarus, which is a good thing, but I can't put my finger on exactly what reminds me of Icarus, probably the quirky but awesome gameplay.


Thank you! Ironically, these maps aren't much like what I'd make today, at least not for the time being. I enjoyed making them and I do enjoy playing good-looking 300-500 monster maps still, but my tastes have changed a bit. I'll probably be posting a separate thread very soon with a map I made recently, as soon as I feel like the excitement surrounding this megawad has died down a tiny bit more, and you'll get to see if you like that as well. :)

Glad in particular that you like my usage of cyberdemons. As you might be able to tell from my two maps, they're one of my favorite enemies. I would much rather fight a cyberdemon, all things being equal, than twenty revenants or whatever (although the skeletal fiends make plenty of their own appearances in my maps, hehe).

And as for the Icarus feel, I can't really comment on that since I haven't played that megawad in probably a decade either and it didn't really make much of an impression on me (or so I thought) when I did play it. But whatever terms you want to put it in, I'm delighted that you enjoyed my maps so much!

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Played MAP20 - it's sloppy - I saw a HOM on the lower line nearest the mouths of the cave and another in the inaccessible tunnels near the first red key door - but fun as well. It plays well, with slaughter areas that encourage you to run in and get through the monsters quickly rather than hanging back and taking forever trying to pick off the opposition from the vantage points you have. I also noticed the monsters that never rose out of the ground, as I fell into a pit on top of revenant, which I let beat me to death as I couldn't jump out or anything.

Looks alright for what it is, to me.

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jerrysheppy said:

Thank you! Ironically, these maps aren't much like what I'd make today, at least not for the time being. I enjoyed making them and I do enjoy playing good-looking 300-500 monster maps still, but my tastes have changed a bit. I'll probably be posting a separate thread very soon with a map I made recently, as soon as I feel like the excitement surrounding this megawad has died down a tiny bit more, and you'll get to see if you like that as well. :)

Glad in particular that you like my usage of cyberdemons. As you might be able to tell from my two maps, they're one of my favorite enemies. I would much rather fight a cyberdemon, all things being equal, than twenty revenants or whatever (although the skeletal fiends make plenty of their own appearances in my maps, hehe).

And as for the Icarus feel, I can't really comment on that since I haven't played that megawad in probably a decade either and it didn't really make much of an impression on me (or so I thought) when I did play it. But whatever terms you want to put it in, I'm delighted that you enjoyed my maps so much!


Hahah, it's funny how tastes change. My first map I ever started for DooM was a massive green brick hellish fortress with giant structures, inspired by Scythe 2's mapping, my aim was to create the biggest baddest meanest looking hellish map ever made, that was supposedly going to render everything else obselete, I even named it "Tormented Flesh on the Mount of Crucifixion" haha... but when it was 95% done I started playing Requiem and realized that I prefered even the starting level to the map I was making hahah, every single map I played made me feel more and more embarrassed about that hellish map so I went for small maps, but after a while I went back to Map15 of Momento Mori, Iikka Keranen's maps, Icarus maps I started realizing the qualities of maps that felt like an adventure, so off to making big maps again I guess. Now I just need to finish a big map. ;)

Also thanks for the support on my Necromancy map, looking back I can understand your problem with hitscanners and lack of health, in hindsight it wouldn't have hurt to put some more stimpacks down. I guess that's one of the problems I have when I'm the sole tester for a map is that I play through it so much that I become so good at it and then keep ramping it up another notch according to how I play to try keep it interesting, all the meantime neglecting the poor guy who is about to venture through it for his first time. :) I need to go easy on those hitscanners though, that's my new years resolution. There is a secret which takes you back up to the main area, if that counts. :P

Sorry, I'm not even sure if this post makes sense, off to go get some sleep now.

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hey, just a thing to notice you: this wad needs dehacked and level title patch for non-zdoom user (and any other ports uses only MAPINFO as like as Risen3d).

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