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Night-Fang

PrBOOM vs. ZDoom

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Originally posted by Laimiz
[B]oh yeah, it's cool, it even blurs the graphics!

Blurring is cool? A way to compensate for pixelation maybe - but that's about all. It's sort of interesting that people mention PRBOOM as "sticking to the original" yet it has these "modern" un-DOOM twists, like GL and BOOM mods. It's a good port though, just too limited.

ZDOOM has the sweetest graphics of all, esp close-up with hi-res images. IOW, solving the problem, rather than trying to hide it:)

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Actually, high-res textures just makes things worse when you get far away. This can be solved by using multi-res textures a la Quake - which I suppose will be implemented in ZDoom soon.

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Originally posted by Fredrik
Actually, high-res textures just makes things worse when you get far away. This can be solved by using multi-res textures a la Quake - which I suppose will be implemented in ZDoom soon.

Mipmapping? That's pretty much automatic under GL.

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Originally posted by Maonth
someone count the "votes"!


Too bad the vote box is gone since the site has been remade.

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ZDoom does need 16-bit modes and mipmapping. Case in point, Deep's xtheater.wad, where image dithering destroys the chicks' photos, and when you stay away from them they're hideously blocky even in really high resolutions like 1600x1200.

Anyway, I think, after reading all the posts and their opinions so far, splitting ZDaemon in two flavors, i.e. classic (PRBoom) and new (ZDoom) could be the best alternative, even as farfetched as it seems.

Despite that it's sad to see that "ZDoom-sucks-because-it-lets-you-jump" attitude coming up again. If all the ports are based on the original, why should we bother to say "X is better than Y" when we can just say that X and Y are both better than Doom? Be happy with what you have. Is the fact that jumping or mlooking can be enabled going to make you refrain from enjoying a Dooming experience? I believe that if you have a chance to do something that, while not being exactly what you wanted, is pretty close, you should go for it and not be fundamentalist (which in a way we all are for still playing Doom, but I won't digress =).

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most of the people who posted here have really no idea what they're ranting about.. most of you also have failed to miss the point..

keep zdoom for single player and for level editing that's fine.. but dont make a doom port multiplayer if it's not DOOM. it's as simple as that..

no one cares about colored lighting, slopes, rocket trails, jumping OR MLOOK.. what people do care about is sticking to what is original..

people SHOULD be playing in 320x200 still, and should have no other choice BUT that resolution.. changing resolutions gives other players advantages like fov in quake.

also, the old doomers and all the people requesting for prboom were the people that created the multiplayer aspect of modem to modem years and years ago, which is why it should be ported..

we already have a port for zdoom now, so all you quake players who think that it takes more skill since now you can shoot the ground and jump around worse than a retarded person on crack, you can go play Zdaemon 0.99, and the real doomers will move on to a port that is as close to the original as you can get..

with prboom, if it had client/server code, think of the possibilities... with deom compatibility, code could easily be added so that you could run a demo ON a server, and have spectators connect to that server and critique a demo.. it may not sound like fun to the quake people, but i'm sure the doomers all agree this would kickass.. think about running down the hall WITH NoSkill and watching him in third person, with 2-3 other spectators right there with you?

just think before you spout off lines about 'oh my port can have more linedefs than yours' cuz it's gets really stupid and old.

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I congratulate you, sir, for the great achievement that is showing how can one be so much of an ignorant, fascist, retrograde, selfish, short-sighted and stereotyped prick all in one single post. Thank you.

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Originally posted by Fredrik
Wow grindking you suck.


not just suck. It's more than that...like über suck.

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Originally posted by Zaldron
It's so stupid it feels fake. Kinda like Mechasam and his repertory of Zdoom maps.


I wouldn't be surpriced if that was toke. No one arguments as bad as he does, NO ONE.

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people SHOULD be playing in 320x200 still, and should have no other choice BUT that resolution.. changing resolutions gives other players advantages like fov in quake.

I think you're missing out the restrictions of low-spec machines. To be fair, people SHOULD be playing in 320x200 mode in the smallest screensize possible. Furthermore, they should be limited to 5 fps and PC speaker sound effects only.

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Originally posted by fraggle`
I think you're missing out the restrictions of low-spec machines. To be fair, people SHOULD be playing in 320x200 mode in the smallest screensize possible. Furthermore, they should be limited to 5 fps and PC speaker sound effects only.


hey? why don't we go back into the water now that we are at it? (yes i know you were being sarcastic.)

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Originally posted by Maonth


hey? why don't we go back into the water now that we are at it?

Yes, but unfortunately its probably not practical. What we really need is legislation to make 'undoom' source ports illegal. id were incredibly kind to release the doom source code to us; we should not abuse their kindness by modifying it. It should be kept in a pristine unmodified condition. The original doom.exe is a religion; zdoom is blasphemy.

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Originally posted by fraggle`
Yes, but unfortunately its probably not practical. What we really need is legislation to make 'undoom' source ports illegal. id were incredibly kind to release the doom source code to us; we should not abuse their kindness by modifying it. It should be kept in a pristine unmodified condition. The original doom.exe is a religion; zdoom is blasphemy.


Yes. Let's go burn the only reason this community is alive!

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Originally posted by Maonth


Yes. Let's go burn the only reason this community is alive!

Exactly. Its better to burn out than to fade away.

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Originally posted by fraggle`
Exactly. Its better to burn out than to fade away.


yeah. And let's, while were at it, burn all the custom wads, cause' they are also evolution.

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no one cares about colored lighting, slopes, rocket trails, jumping OR MLOOK..

This is a statement so retarded that it's amazing. Where did you get "no one" from? I have met LOTS of people who think all or most of those features are great and just a FEW who don't care about them at all. And most of the persons who don't care DO NOT COMPLAIN when OTHER people get what THEY want.

what people do care about is sticking to what is original..

Doom2.exe still remains and anyone who likes it better could stick to it for eternity and not bother with anything else. So if you don't like source ports, just ignore them.

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The very first major point: Gameplay is always over graphics.

Personally, I'm more likely a deathmatcher than a mapper/graphics favored person. The people replied above who are truly deathmatchers: Toke (although Toke's nut sometimes), Waldon, Bluntman, Grindking...etc. Of course, I'd definitely agree with their opinions with no doubt. I have never tried to use PrBoom. Therefore, I can't really give a very dependent, exact opinion from the point of my view based on what I've heard from you guys. If PrBoom does contain as close and ordinary features as Doom2.exe have, I'd go with that, since Zdoom has become so "quakish" nowadays, however, I cannot quite evaulate how PrBoom's netcodes are due to I have lack of experiences using it. Although Nightfang used PrBoom for the base of Zdaemon1.0, I'd still have no conflicts against it even though I'm not used to Doom2's mouse sensitivity. I will just have to start over my Dooming experience and re-learn how to use mouse. =] It is true that I understand why those of you have choosen Zdoom as your preferences. AndrewB, Ralphis..etc you guys prefer more varieties and features on mapping for Zdoom, which is a good thing also to me. Art always sounds fantastic to me.

My will is hoping there were a port which contains PrBoom gameplay features (like Wald said: movements, m.sensitivity, wallrunning, strafing...etc), also known as the Oldschool Doom gameplay. It'd make most real doomers happy. Having high-resolutions and even OpenGL ports sound great, but this would lag the games, so this wouldn't the major thing I care about whether it has them or not. Zdoom's scriptings aren't very bad for some reasons in my opinion. Especially, scripts such as flying, freezing monsters, instant-killing monsters, suiciding are huge conveniences for me at some certain moments when I need them. I suppose that is what the basic ideal port I'm looking forward to at least at this moment.

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Um, I prefer Zdoom to PrBoom, but I do like PrBoom. To me the original doom.exe issue isn't that hugely important, I can live without it's feel, because I like Zdoom's feel just as much. I also get more blood (sprites and particles), an awesome and fast dmflags variables, fast cvar listing (I can't remmeber them ALL :]) and a lot else besides.

oh and i finally fixed my file names so it workd from the DOS prompt again. :)

I have noticed a few gameplay issues I'm not happy with though, in particular the player seems to be able to get through a lot more impassable linedefs than in teh original or PrBoom, and also if you are standing over the smallest of ledges a set-in switch creates when a platform is raised, you don't hold up teh platform, you get stuck. Niggly things, but I've been caught out a few times.

I'm still a ZDoom whore, though. ZDoom 1.22 that is.

Uh, a total guess i have is that you can edit the extent Zdoom adds its Zness to Doom by fucking around with the ZDoom.wad it loads on startup?

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Originally posted by 999cop
True Doom Deathmatch: oldshcool, hardcore, un-quakish


why are they more true than me? I deathmatch. I'm a deathmatcher.

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Note: Zdoom is also alright to use when the setting of the game is at dmflag 2000708 / zdaemon's silent bfg included + oldschool dmflags ##### <- I've forgotten what it was :D and that'd be absolutely acceptable to me.

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You'd be better off making the lumps you want yourself (you can extract them from zdoom.wad), give them a name, and add them to the [Doom.Autoload] section of zdoom.ini.

Oh wait, you're using 1.22... :p

I think you can do the same but rather than adding entries to zdoom.ini (which doesn't exist for that version) you put your files in the .\skins\ directory - it loads everything you want from there... including skins :)

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i'd also like to add that I prefer PRBoom over ZDoom because ZDoom (and ports based off it) crashes 85% of the time when it goes through the loading screen. I've had no problems with PRBoom.

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