I just got a phone call from the FBI...

Let alone that as I said, producing a knife would not scare off a potential determined attacker, especially if he has more experience with knife combat or "street smarts" than you. You'd probably piss him off even more, and it would be useless vs multiple attackers (which would then think nothing of stabbing you in the back).

A gun, I insist, as long as it appears like a real gun (and not, say, a bulgarian keychain gun like this one)

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/07/26/article-1038600-0212FFA900000578-205_468x251_popup.jpg

is much more of a credible and effective threat, even when loaded with blanks. Of course, that's assuming you calmly but quickly draw it and have it in a "ready to use" and aimed state, rather than running around like a scared chicken trying to retrieve it from your fanny pack while looking for the bullets in your pocket, like Kristus would do ;-)

If you simply produce it with a cold stare and FUCKING AIM IT EVEN AT A SINGLE MUGGER, they will freeze and back off unless they are fucking desperate and don't care if they live another day. They will treat you with RESPECT all of a sudden, because you will have started to speak their "language", in a way. Greater firepower & greater fear factor = back the fuck off, and that's really what you need in 99% of self-defense cases.

And, N.B., without firing a single round.

Self defense is 99% psychology and only 1% terminal ballistics ;-)

Maes has done a good job of fleshing out my own feelings on this. That's a neat little "gadget", too ;)

But I still think, regardless of what weapon is involved (including your bare hands; let's not forget the potentially LETHAL power of a punch to the right place at the right time), I would rather be the killer than the killed. If that makes me some cold-blooded, unjust slaughterer of men then so be it.

Maes has become quite good at winning the thread.

Is it wrong that I regret missing the stupid kid's OP before it was nuked?

Aliotroph? said:

Is it wrong that I regret missing the stupid kid's OP before it was nuked?

Yes. And no.

It's like not wanting to have a glance at the carnage of some terrible car crash as you drive past or not wanting to stand around watching someone's house burn down, but being compelled to do so anyway.

Im not sure that giving everyone free access to guns is the answer, hasn't really worked for your country so far. I think we need more layers of law enforcement though, police cannot be everywhere at once, some kind of trained neighbourhood watch or something.

Stopping people from becoming criminals in the first place should probably be the real focus though, and i doubt that is an easy issue. Education (not just Maths\Eng but also education on emotion\impulse\needs), quality of life, life style\culture would all be a factor.

ManCannon said:

Im not sure that giving everyone free access to guns is the answer, hasn't really worked for your country so far. I think we need more layers of law enforcement though, police cannot be everywhere at once, some kind of trained neighbourhood watch or something.

That would go a long way towards providing more security without turning every citizen into a fully-trained cop, but providing even such a service with regularity would still require more organization and civic sense (e.g. rotating duties, duty training, collaboration with the police) what can typically be expected. There's no silver bullet there, that's for sure.

ManCannon said:

Stopping people from becoming criminals in the first place should probably be the real focus though, and i doubt that is an easy issue. Education (not just Maths\Eng but also education on emotion\impulse\needs), quality of life, life style\culture would all be a factor.

Robert Heinlein has a disturbingly realistic and more actual than ever dissertation on the subject, hidden within his controversial "Starship Troopers" novel. I recommend reading the whole book, and try focusing on the part where the ineffective re-education and (lack of) punishment of young delinguents is mentioned. It's dead-on accurate description of what's happening today, even if written several decades earlier.

Greater access to guns will not may deter some criminals afraid that their intended victims can strike back; but it'll also incite others to hit first, by surprise, and loot the corpse rather than mugging through intimidation.

As for the OP, the bungie thread is still enough of a trainwreck as it is, since the overwhelming response there seems to be "stupid, when you plan on a mass murder, you don't announce it publicly!" which doesn't seem like the best advice.

Anyway, if it was just the case of a stupid kid pulling a stupid prank, he likely won't be treated like a real nutcase. There are psych evaluations and all that stuff. Worst case, he'll get to learn a valuable lesson about being a dumbass on the internet.

Mr. T said:

Although, being a situation where you have to call the FBI like that is kind of like curing the symptoms and not the disease. Maybe, just maybe it's too easy for kids to access guns?!

You've got that in reverse. The disease is kids psycho enough to want to kill their classmates and teachers. Easy access to guns is more like a different illness, one of these opportunistic infections that take advantage of a weakened immune system to make everything worse.

Curing the symptoms would be like making kids pass through metal detectors like at airports to make sure they don't carry guns, and letting psychopathy fester in their minds as long as nothing happens, instead of keeping an eye on the sanity and wellbeing of children...

Mr. T said:

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Well, if he had actually shot up his school, then yeah.

Although, being a situation where you have to call the FBI like that is kind of like curing the symptoms and not the disease. Maybe, just maybe it's too easy for kids to access guns?!

Don't even start with your liberal bullshit. You and your damn communist friends, trying to ruin America and ban guns.

Mr. T said:

Or be a kid. I'm sure you were 13 and angry at the world once.

At 13 he'd be a teenager, and teenagers are capable of rational thought just like adults, so he has to take responsibility for his own words. At least now he'll learn his lesson and never do this again. Also, what of the slim chance he was serious, terrorists have done this before, like that guy who threatened to light his high school school on fire on Newgrounds, and someone called the police and they found that the kid had a knife, gasoline, and a lighter on him at school.

guns for everyone! lets increase death rates to prevent overcrowding and food/resource shortages

Gez said:

Greater access to guns will not may deter some criminals afraid that their intended victims can strike back; but it'll also incite others to hit first, by surprise, and loot the corpse rather than mugging through intimidation.

Not to mention the ease with which they could get a gun of their own just by picking it off some random guy they hit over the head with a brick.

samusaran253 said:

Don't even start with your liberal bullshit. You and your damn communist friends, trying to ruin America and ban guns.

Sorry for trying to ruin America with my liberal bullshit. How stupid I was to not realize that everything is great. My bad.

Teenagers are capable of rational thought. capable. Any society where a child can face adult punishment for saying something stupid needs to step back and take a look in the mirror.

kristus said:

There are more ways to deal with a threat than to use terminal force or cower in fear.

Indeed: I much prefer to tie them up and torture and humiliate them for days on end, so they will learn their lesson and stop being a criminal

samusaran253 said:

Don't even start with your liberal bullshit. You and your damn communist friends, trying to ruin America and ban guns.

I can't even decide whether this is supposed to be a joke or not.

Mr. T said:

Sorry for trying to ruin America with my liberal bullshit. How stupid I was to not realize that everything is great. My bad.

Teenagers are capable of rational thought. capable. Any society where a child can face adult punishment for saying something stupid needs to step back and take a look in the mirror.

He'll probably just get suspended, possibly expelled. Since he's (most likely) a minor, he won't go to prison.

Foodles said:

guns for everyone! lets increase death rates to prevent overcrowding and food/resource shortages

A modest proposal :P

In all honesty, self defense means a lot of different things depending on the situation. It seems to me that while guns provide you with a lot of power (whether for offense or defense), they obviously don't cover every base. It would be ideal to have multiple fighting skills: Be good at wielding weapons such as guns and knives, but also be good at bare-handed combat.

After all, it has been noted that using a handgun can be less than effective if you're in a close-quarters, getting mugged/robbed kind of situation. By the same token, having some hand-to-hand skills might allow you to disable a burglar who really isn't trying to shoot people but is using the gun for compliance. Of course, in many situations I would rather give up the money/expensive items even if I was a kung-fu master, because that shit isn't worth dying for. But still, the ideal person who can defend themselves will be able to react to various encounters: They should be ready to punch the gunman, as well as effectively wield a gun themselves.

But my favorite form of self-defense, in terms of getting robbed, is just to be poor and not have anything nice or expensive :P

samusaran253 said:

At 13 he'd be a teenager, and teenagers are capable of rational thought just like adults, so he has to take responsibility for his own words.

No, no they really aren't. Especially at 13.

magicsofa said:

But my favorite form of self-defense, in terms of getting robbed, is just to be poor and not have anything nice or expensive :P

Evasivity and plain old stealth and knowing how to keep out of trouble also do play a role -I avoided a lot of potentially nasty encounters by crossing parks through uncommon paths, behind trees etc. while robbers looking for 'easy marks' will stay close to the main paths.

Now if the shit DOES hit the fan, then you'll need the best self-defense you can afford.

Gez said:

Greater access to guns will not may deter some criminals afraid that their intended victims can strike back; but it'll also incite others to hit first, by surprise, and loot the corpse rather than mugging through intimidation.

That is, assuming criminals have some sort of "code of honor" or sportsmanship towards their victims. If they do have a code, it's only valid between their peers, not towards their marks, and if a better "tool" makes them more effective at robbing, they will use it anyway. A scenario where every mark is potentially armed will just up the ante and cut the lower-end ones out of the game.

magicsofa said:

It would be ideal to have multiple fighting skills: Be good at wielding weapons such as guns and knives, but also be good at bare-handed combat.

While I agree, knives and fists are essential last-last-resort things. Unlike a gun, their lethality is suspect AND they both get thrown out once someone pulls a gun.

magicsofa said:

After all, it has been noted that using a handgun can be less than effective if you're in a close-quarters, getting mugged/robbed kind of situation.

Who says so? FBI and Police Marksman Association statistics show that most gunfights occur at around twenty feet or less.

magicsofa said:

By the same token, having some hand-to-hand skills might allow you to disable a burglar who really isn't trying to shoot people but is using the gun for compliance.

That is a extremely dangerous assumption, and would likely kill you.

First, the fact that he has a gun drawn means that you should treat the situation like he WILL shoot you. Whether he means to use the weapon or not, ALWAYS plan for the worst. Lunging at someone with a gun drawn = you dying, unless the guy is a complete idiot. Not something I'd bet my life on.

magicsofa said:

Of course, in many situations I would rather give up the money/expensive items even if I was a kung-fu master, because that shit isn't worth dying for.

This. Your life is not worth your wallet's contents.

magicsofa said:

But still, the ideal person who can defend themselves will be able to react to various encounters: They should be ready to punch the gunman, as well as effectively wield a gun themselves.

Exactly...but make sure you prioritize correctly.

Totally off topic and irrelevant, but has this thread been trimmed? It seems to be a post short.

Some interesting reads:

Why I Favor the Vaquero Grande.

Martial arts mythology

Worse than nothing (in self defense).

Summerized note - Sam is a dirty rat. Also another comment after him over-reacting and spewing about Socialist and Liberal bullshit.. Sam? Stop acting like a fag.

Maes said:

Martial arts mythology

Chi (bioenergy) has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt to exist, although scientists do not fully understand how it works.

Not to nitpick, but I thought the whole concept of Chi had been debunked by the scientific community? Or at least, it was widely dismissed as being debatable at best..

Kirby said:

Forget Snake, send in Otacon

Forget Otacon, send in Mulder. Maybe Aliens hijacked his computer... ;)

samusaran253 said:

Don't even start with your liberal bullshit. You and your damn communist friends, trying to ruin America and ban guns.

Politics always leads to fair and reasonable arguments, especially on forums which don't have anything too do with them. :p

lol good work

DW is full of /win as always.

Drop Kristus in the heart of North Philly or Kensington for an hour or two at night time and he'll be pleading for a gun.

You're from Sweden.

So what exactly are the FBI gonna do? Trace his ip and visit his house?

And plea that his performance has been so breath taking that they are offering him a position under-cover. It works in the movies..