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yellowmadness54

resistance 3 and the state of the modern FPS

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You know, just when I thought the CoD chain would break, when games would become original, go back to the way things were before everything was "CoDified" I happen upon resistance 3 article in playstation magazine...I was heart broken.

I'm not sure what the hell was in Insomniac's mind while thinking up the ideas for this game, but guess what? ITS A DAMN CALL OF DUTY GAME, AGAIN!

resistance 3 has it all, from Killstreaks, load outs, 16-player matches (as opposed to the original 60 player matches), deathstreaks, percs.

Instead of martyrdom, when a player dies he has the ability to give birth to some leapers that jump out after that player dies.

I give up on games, if it truly has come down to this, I can't see anything good coming up in the future of gaming.

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Vaporizer said:

Shut up. It's a Resistance 3 thread, but still you only complaint about things you don't like in Call of Duty.

Heh, I'm not sure that I have seen someone be told off for not being on topic in their own first post in their own thread before.

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Vaporizer said:

Shut up. It's a Resistance 3 thread, but still you only complaint about things you don't like in Call of Duty.

Because thats all resistance 3 is. Go read it online.

Wait, did you even read the whole thing? I didnt complaign about the things I hate in CoD, I talked about the similarities between resistance 3 and how it is, again, a clone of it.

Please read the whole thread before posting.

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yellowmadness54 said:

I give up on games, if it truly has come down to this, I can't see anything good coming up in the future of gaming.


Man you haven't played Portal 2 yet!

But, really, haven't games always followed in the footsteps of what worked before? Perks, experience and loadouts worked in COD4 so it's only logical that it would become a trend in shooters to come. Perhaps you're just jaded with the shooter genre.

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Portal 2 is good, i'll agree, but as a magority, FPS games are all too alike, and all are taking trends from the worst franchise of all time.

It doesnt match. Killstreaks dont even make sense " Oh hey, heres that emergency airstrike we had provided for you but we waited until you got 12 kills just for shits and laughs"

Its stupid, and these CoD add=ons, if anything, worsened the experience. The player limit has dropped from a massive 60 down to 16. and now, due to classes, I'm willing to bet one gun is going to wind up insanely over powered, and become then over used as soon as people unlock it if it is even unlocked.

These trends have got to stop, I'm seeing the same thing in every new FPS now.

DOOM 4 will do it, DOOM4 will end this trash. Come on ID, saviour of video games.

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It's like I'm really on /v/!

It doesnt match. Killstreaks dont even make sense " Oh hey, heres that emergency airstrike we had provided for you but we waited until you got 12 kills just for shits and laughs"


If we're using that logic, I could argue that it wouldn't make sense for a bunch of soldiers to engage at knife-fighting ranges in sealed-off, secluded areas.

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I have the previous two games, and found them pretty average. You are right Birdbrain the artstyle is quite bland, but the games themselves were alright. As for the 60 player matches, they were rubbish anyway. Just descended into a massive clusterfuck of projectiles, I actually prefer matches with less players. As for it being a CoD clone, the companies realise that that is what the majority of FPS players want, so that's what they are getting. :/

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yellowmadness54 said:

the worst franchise of all time.


Says who, you? COD4 introduced something new to multi-player FPS that most gamers had never seen before (I think Battlefield 2 worked kinda similarly but I've never played that so I can't really say). It was pretty refreshing to feel like you were progressing towards something as you won matches and killed other players. Though many Doomworlders will probably disagree, COD4 was a great game both online and offline. It only makes sense that developers would start implementing the same features into their multi-player components to keep up. I dunno, maybe that's just me.

But anyways, I do agree that the genre needs something else to keep it interesting. Though I had a blast with COD4 a few years ago, the formula is definitely tiresome. Honestly I'd like to see developers put more effort into their single player campaigns.

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yellowmadness54 said:

Please read the whole thread before posting.


dohohoho, it's like you're trying to get yourself on thin ice.

seriously man give it a fucking rest already. every game-related topic you start or post in has to have some kind of minimum quota on call of duty related horseshit. i know this is a forum for an almost 20 year old game but you're not impressing anyone and cod didn't sell a metric asston of copies by being outright bad.

assuming some of the decent posters here might want to actually discuss resistance 3 i'll leave the thread open for now.

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Liam said:

dohohoho, it's like you're trying to get yourself on thin ice.


I wasn't trying to sound trollish, just implying that it seemed that he based the thread off of the first sentence.

All I'm saying is, FPS's should stop being so generic to the point where they all have the same exact gameplay as the last, which games now seem to be doing.

Back on original xbox, take for example, no FPS games on that were alike other than the fact the gun was in first person view. Controls were different, gameplay, plot, multiplayer, everything felt more unique compared to the other.

Games now are just pleasing the new croud of gamers, the ones typically starting off from halo 3 or MW2. And now they are taking the same ideas from the last.
Killstreaks only make sense in CoD, in crysis 2 and especially resistance, it just seems obnoxious and a droll idea.

Thats like putting a sniper rifle in doom 4, it doesnt fit or seem right.

Class systems make it so people will use the same guns over and over. Examples?
Crysis 2- SCAR and Feline
BC2- AN94, M60
MW2- UMP .45ACP, ACR
Far Cry 2- AS50, AR16 (this one at the highest extreme.)

Now on Battlefield 2, it was more succesful, because it actually had different, alternating classes that gave people roles.
I agree class systems are good if used correctly, however, in games today cases, they dont.
You also have to add that only that class they used upgraded, not the whole player it self IE If I use assault, I unlock and assault weapon. Now its "If I use this insanely over powered unbalanced over used gun, I get another insanely over powered unbalanced over used gun."

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I value yellowmadness' opinion because it's at least somewhat akin to my opinions on video games. What I'm confused about is that he continues to buy games, not enjoy them, and proceed to make threads about how much they suck. If you've really given up on the call of duty trend, then you really should wait about 5 years or so for the genre to dilute into something else.

I for one have different views on how terrible the video game market has plummeted but of course I learned that the people here are more than comfortable with having their wallets emptied for games that aren't as good as they have the potential to be and so there is no use in trying.

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40oz said:

I value yellowmadness' opinion because it's at least somewhat akin to my opinions on video games. What I'm confused about is that he continues to buy games, not enjoy them, and proceed to make threads about how much they suck. If you've really given up on the call of duty trend, then you really should wait about 5 years or so for the genre to dilute into something else.

I for one have different views on how terrible the video game market has plummeted but of course I learned that the people here are more than comfortable with having their wallets emptied for games that aren't as good as they have the potential to be and so there is no use in trying.


Oh I dont buy these games. I'm just waiting endlessly for something great to come out.

But this resistance thing litterally bitch slapped me in the face when I came across it.
It was a major, major let down, and I've been waiting for it for a long time. To see that insomniac had done this for no apperent reason other than sales just hurts me.

The game industries dont care about us anymore, they arent doing it for the entertainment, creativity, for their fans. Now its for our money.

Its like virtual-late abortion.

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yellowmadness54 said:

The game industries dont care about us anymore, they arent doing it for the entertainment, creativity, for their fans. Now its for our money.


Pff... If by "us" you mean die-hard retro players and 20-year-old-games fanboys, then yes. But otherwise the statement is pretty bold. I don't like the trend most AAA games are going these days myself, but I disagree about those points. There's large audience that does appreciate such games, so it can be argued that producing more games of the same style with elements that have proven to be enjoyed by them actually is a sort of proof they're doing it for the fans. Lack of creativity? Well, of originality maybe. And like every other big industry, of course they're aiming at solid profits. It's like going to the movies to watch a blockbuster and then complain it's not a Hitchcock.

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Vaporizer said:

Like in the 90's all the FPS games were unique and didn't take ideas from other games.

well
-DOOM: demons, hellish maps, weapons, loads of enemie veriaty, easy to mod, large bosses, projectile weapons.
-Wolf3d- hitscan weapons only, human enemies only, no elevation, nazies. 3 weapons only. smaller bosses (still hard)
-Duke Nukem: humor, aiming, better textures, not so mod friendly, more weapon veriaty, more abilities and interactions, talking/voices
RoTT: wolfenstein+doom styled gameplay and level design. Human enemies but with sci-fi and action movie elements, some humor, large veriaty of weapons. More of an arcade styled game feel.
Quake: 3D, nuff said
Quake 2: quake with angled weapons, voices/talking, mission objectives, more fluid gameplay, larger maps, new (and way cooler) enemies.

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yellowmadness54 said:

Killstreaks dont even make sense " Oh hey, heres that emergency airstrike we had provided for you but we waited until you got 12 kills just for shits and laughs"

It makes even less sense that one person is able to defeat all of hell by himself while when the army tried to do so everybody was killed. It doesn't make sense that some company can make a huge complex of buildings on the surface of Phobos, where the gravity is so weak that all buildings would be pulled out of the ground and into space. It doesn't make sense that the designers of some base put random alcoves, pools of nuckage, and dead ends everywhere.

The game industries dont care about us anymore, they arent doing it for the entertainment, creativity, for their fans. Now its for our money

Its been like this since the beginning.

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neg!ke said:

Pff... If by "us" you mean die-hard retro players and 20-year-old-games fanboys, then yes. But otherwise the statement is pretty bold. I don't like the trend most AAA games are going these days myself, but I disagree about those points. There's large audience that does appreciate such games, so it can be argued that producing more games of the same style with elements that have proven to be enjoyed by them actually is a sort of proof they're doing it for the fans. Lack of creativity? Well, of originality maybe. And like every other big industry, of course they're aiming at solid profits. It's like going to the movies to watch a blockbuster and then complain it's not a Hitchcock.

sorry for double post, this came after.

You make valid points, however to ditch old fans for new ones is just stupid.

Fans of the first two resistance games in no way would enjoy the changes to make it more fitting to new comers. It changes the gameplay by alot, and the whole experience.
And NO ONE likes killstreaks. They are over powered and easy to get, and encourage camping and boosting. Its an element games need to drop quicker than anything else.

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yellowmadness54 said:

well
-DOOM: demons, hellish maps, weapons, loads of enemie veriaty, easy to mod, large bosses, projectile weapons.
-Wolf3d- hitscan weapons only, human enemies only, no elevation, nazies. 3 weapons only. smaller bosses (still hard)
-Duke Nukem: humor, aiming, better textures, not so mod friendly, more weapon veriaty, more abilities and interactions, talking/voices
RoTT: wolfenstein+doom styled gameplay and level design. Human enemies but with sci-fi and action movie elements, some humor, large veriaty of weapons. More of an arcade styled game feel.
Quake: 3D, nuff said
Quake 2: quake with angled weapons, voices/talking, mission objectives, more fluid gameplay, larger maps, new (and way cooler) enemies.


Cherry-picking certain games doesn't strengthen your argument one bit. The '90s were filled to the brim with Doom clones and supposed "Doom killers", some of which were even in the same style.

You either have rose-tinted goggles surgically attached to your head, or your memory is very hazy.

yellowmadness54 said:

The game industries dont care about us anymore, they arent doing it for the entertainment, creativity, for their fans. Now its for our money.


Who fucking said so? Did you conduct a poll? Is there a chart I missed somewhere? How are you privvy to this information? Do you seriously mean to tell me that there is not one fucking development team in all the land who makes game for fun first?

Let me explain something to you: Game devs are businesses. Businesses are out to gain one thing: profit. How so? By appealing to the mass market. At this moment in time, appealing to the mass market means killstreaks, classes, and loadouts.

That fact has not changed in years. That model was around in the '80s, the '90s, the '00s, and will be around as long as a business exists. It is the nature of a capitalistic society.

Don't act like the '90s were a utopia. While *I* consider the '90s/Early '00s to be the Golden Age of Gaming(TM), there was just as much crap as there was today. I'd wager there was even MORE shit out there, because the development costs hadn't skyrocketed quite yet back then.

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Processingcontrol said:

It makes even less sense that one person is able to defeat all of hell by himself while when the army tried to do so everybody was killed.


Because he's a badass?

Processingcontrol said:

It doesn't make sense that some company can make a huge complex of buildings on the surface of Phobos, where the gravity is so weak that all buildings would be pulled out of the ground and into space.


Because it's the future?

Processingcontrol said:

It doesn't make sense that the designers of some base put random alcoves, pools of nuckage, and dead ends everywhere.


Because it's a videogame?

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yellowmadness54 said:

-Wolf3d- hitscan weapons only, human enemies only, no elevation, nazies. 3 weapons only. smaller bosses (still hard)

I don't know why but I laughed at "nazies".

Also, I don't really understand the purpose of this random list of mostly-id fpses.

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yellowmadness54 said:

well
-DOOM: demons, hellish maps, weapons, loads of enemie veriaty, easy to mod, large bosses, projectile weapons.
-Wolf3d- hitscan weapons only, human enemies only, no elevation, nazies. 3 weapons only. smaller bosses (still hard)
-Duke Nukem: humor, aiming, better textures, not so mod friendly, more weapon veriaty, more abilities and interactions, talking/voices
RoTT: wolfenstein+doom styled gameplay and level design. Human enemies but with sci-fi and action movie elements, some humor, large veriaty of weapons. More of an arcade styled game feel.
Quake: 3D, nuff said
Quake 2: quake with angled weapons, voices/talking, mission objectives, more fluid gameplay, larger maps, new (and way cooler) enemies.


Those games share a lot of mutual design/gameplay elements, actually. Probably as much as Resistance shares with Call of Duty, really. Most of the differences you list are quite superficial. Here's a few things that some of them share:

- Weak story
- Status bar
- Episodic structure
- Shareware distribution model
- Pistol as a starting weapon
- Similar weapon balance/tiers
- Made by id Software
- Textures (Wolf 3D, Doom, and Quake share some.)
- Key hunts
- Secret areas
- Secret levels
- End of map statistics screen
- Health pickups
- High player mobility
- Dodgeable attacks
- Maze-like levels
- etc.

Why didn't you list anything like Blake Stone? It's gameplay is based almost entirely on Wolf3D's, but the handful of new features and OMG-SPACE setting set it apart as a shining example of creativity in '90s game design, right? Ken's Labyrinth? Corridor 7? Nitemare 3D? Gloom?

You also didn't make note of any of the games that actually did more of their own thing from back then, like Pathways into Darkness, Powerslave (maybe), or System Shock.

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yellowmadness54 said:

I wasn't trying to sound trollish, just implying that it seemed that he based the thread off of the first sentence.

All I'm saying is, FPS's should stop being so generic to the point where they all have the same exact gameplay as the last, which games now seem to be doing.


i'm not trying to sound trollish either, but it seems like you're being intentionally thick. if you Read The Whole Thread Before Posting it would've been pretty obvious i was expressly discouraging you from continuing this line of discussion and backseat modding posters making valid points. my inclination now would be to hell the thread, but people are making good posts that you need to read so i'll simply rename it appropriately.

what the other posters have said is true, games have always been 10% or less real innovation and the rest adaptations of concepts that have already proven successful. the term "doom clone" was coined in the early 90's for a reason, after all. what about the freightload of platformers during the 16-bit era starring cutesy, usually anthropomorphic misfit mascots? the caboodles of pirate shovelware and hacks during the 8-bit era and prior? the CD-ROM boom leading to an excess of minimally interactive FMV adventures? counter-strike and team fortress' popularity causing a flood of team and objective based multiplayer mods? i could go on.

in contrast, there will always be games innovating in important aspects or trying to reach new/niche markets, even now. a short and certainly not comprehensive list of recent FPP games doing just that: Team Fortress 2, Bulletstorm, Borderlands, Left 4 Dead 1/2, Zeno Clash, Mass Effect 2, NecroVision, Penumbra/Amnesia, Portal, etc etc. Not to mention what we might see from upcoming titles like Rage, Deus Ex 3, Serious Sam 3, and Duke Nukem Forever.

certain styles of gameplay will fade in and out of popularity as the market deems them viable or otherwise. CoD made bank with it's approach to multiplayer so naturally other AAA devs are going to try to imitate that, some moreso than others. if you don't like it, fine, plenty of people don't. the reason we as doomers don't have to spend every spare second throwing a whinge fit about what's popular in 2011 FPS gaming is because doom is being kept very much alive by the community pushing the old horse to limits noone ever expected.

tl;dr you're obviously very young and have no sense of the actual history of gaming (or current state thereof). you don't like call of duty, everyone gets that and is completely sick of hearing it.

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BlackFish said:

go play UT3


more people should :| last time I checked the serverlist was a total wasteland.

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yellowmadness54 said:

I give up on games


Probably the healthiest thing to do in your case.

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Resistance is futile!

Come on, someone had to say it... :) I don't actually know what all that stuff you're talking about means (killstreaks, etc.) since I haven't played any FPS since Quake II, which was the last one back then to not require a 3D card. More recently I did play Moon on the Nintendo DS, and OpenArena (just to check it out), but that's it.

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Cyanosis said:

Because he's a badass?


Another thing is that an individual (or small team - coop mode) can have a better chance to succeed because an army is too obvious/slow/clumsy. It's the same reason why Frodo & his crew take the ring to Mordor: he can slip past all the defenses undetected, for the most part.

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