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hardcore_gamer

What if Doom 4 suffers the same fate as Duke Nukem Forever?

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As many have now heard it turns out that Duke Nukem Forever plays almost nothing like the original Duke Nukem games and is basically just a Halo/Cod clone with aliens and one-liners instead of being the over the top nonsensical fun fest that the old Duke Nukem games were.

This leaves me very worried in regards to Doom 4.

Sure, its easy to just say things like "there is no reason to worry because Id would NEVER screw over its fans like that" but the thing is that I have already told myself that about other companies in the past only to be proven wrong. I would for example, never have believed that Firaxis could screw over its core fan base until it released the utterly disappointing and heavily simplified (in a bad way) Civilization 5. So I am no longer taking anything for granted at all.

The next Quakecon is not that far away, so basically, if Id were to reveal more details about Doom 4 during the next Quakecon and reveal that the series is heading into a more "realistic" direction and that it would only allow the player to carry a limited amount of weapons, that it has regenerating health (and doesn't allow you to choose between using that kind of a system or health packs like Rage will) and iron sights, then how will you react?

Personally, I would not automatically assume that the game would suck, but I would still assume that the game would probably be a Doom game in name only.

What about you? How would you react to the idea of Doom 4 being more of a modern shooter instead of a fast paced brainless kill fest?

Discuss.

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Doom 4 will be no worse than Doom 3 was. I'm almost sure of it.

I thought Civ 5 was alright, but I like 4 better.

Just chillax, man.

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leaves me scared, somewhat worried. But you are, infact, looking at the pioneers of the FPS genre.

Thats like saying Iron Maiden will go to making pop instead of heavy metal. While metallica or Korn might, the pioneers of metal wont. (ok, wait, this includes Judas Priest as well.)

Basically, what I am saying is, DOOM4 is more likely to be good than bad. I doubt itll switch its gameplay out, or become a CoD halo clone.


Its unfortunate duke nukem did, though. That was a slap to the face.

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the thing about id games is that they never have a set release date until about a year before release, until then it's always "When it's done". This allows gamers to get geared up for the release without promising the world and not delivering, if you get what I mean. The thing with DNF is that they kept promising all these great new features then it became a running joke, until Gearbox got it and then buckled down on the release.

In regards to the gameplay of Doom 4, it has to develop otherwise the franchise with essentially kill itself. Look at Doom 3 it was a hack of a lot slower then Doom and the franchise lost fans because of it but if it was just a full 3D remake of the original the newer audience that wasn't around then would simply laugh it off as being simplistic and rather repetitive. If it doesn't develop like it has with Doom 3 it'll just be like CoD; in an endless cycle of awful sequels that deteriorate in quality more and more with each release.

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hardcore_gamer said:

How would you react to the idea of Doom 4 being more of a modern shooter instead of a fast paced brainless kill fest?


I wouldn't, because I know this is exactly what it is going to be already. It does not anger me, I am simply indifferent, and probably won't find myself buying it.

What I don't get though is why people here are constantly let down by games these days. What does everyone expect? The formula has changed, and new gamers have become accustomed to this formula, just like we became accustomed to the doom and quake-like FPS formula when games were new to us. We aren't the ones who generate revenue for large companies anymore, so if you want old-fashioned gameplay, buy an indie game or something.

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I hope ID doesnt do this modern day formula. Ball all means I'd rather another doom 3, than DOOM 4- modern warfare.

ID is smart, though. They cant possibly betray us like that. Can they?

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Stroggos said:

In regards to the gameplay of Doom 4, it has to develop otherwise the franchise with essentially kill itself.


That doesn't mean it should develop into the wrong direction. The game can have new features and still be Doom.

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yellowmadness54 said:

ID is smart, though. They cant possibly betray us like that. Can they?


They are smart, that is why I would honestly be surprised if it played like the original games. That isn't what sells now. Also I wouldn't call it "betrayal", its marketing and it makes sense.

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hardcore_gamer said:

That doesn't mean it should develop into the wrong direction. The game can have new features and still be Doom.

yeah, how would making DOOM a DOOM game kill the franchise?

Thats like saying if McDonalds doesnt start seving fried chicken, it will die off.

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yellowmadness54 said:

yeah, how would making DOOM a DOOM game kill the franchise?

Thats like saying if McDonalds doesnt start seving fried chicken, it will die off.


Because that's not what sells. id (it's id by the way, not ID) is a company and like all companies one of their first and foremost goals is to make a profit. No profit = no company. How are they going to make a profit? Go with whatever sells the most.

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Danarchy said:

Doom 4 will be no worse than Doom 3 was. I'm almost sure of it.


Exactly. There's nothing to "kill" in the Doom franchise, since id has already shown us that they've abandoned the original gameplay years ago. A return to sanity would be a pleasant surprise, rather than something to fear the lack of.

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Spleen said:

Exactly. There's nothing to "kill" in the Doom franchise, since id has already shown us that they've abandoned the original gameplay years ago.


Actually, its already been stated that Doom 4 will have fast paced gameplay instead of the slow paced horror of Doom 3.

Also, Doom 3 really wasn't all that different from Doom 1 and 2 when it all comes down to it. The only major difference was that the action was more slow paced and that the game had a strong horror theme, plus you had to read a few emails with your PDA every now and then. Almost everything else was the same as it was in the original. People who claim that Doom 3 was "nothing like the original" have probably never played the original for more then 10 min.

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If Doom 4 follows a similar development lifecycle - it'll give me something to look forward to in my retirement. :)

So far as gameplay goes, the harsh reality of having to compete for market share with other well established shooter franchises and not upset risk-averse bean counters is bound to result in Doom 4 playing much like every other shooter - which would be a shame.

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I liked Doom3, and I'll probably like anything iD puts out.

Still, Serious Sam 3 excites me way more than anything iD could develop these days.

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Belial said:

I liked Doom3, and I'll probably like anything iD puts out.

Still, Serious Sam 3 excites me way more than anything iD could develop these days.


I have personally never liked the Serious Sam games, the level design always felt bland and boring. The levels were just big arenas where you would get swarmed by monsters over and over, it was boring.

Doom (and some of the Build Engine games like Duke Nukem 3D and Blood) has interesting levels to explore, which is why I was able to enjoy the game for as long as I did. Serious Sam got boring for me in 10 min. I hope Serious Sam 3 will have more interesting levels.

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Doom 4 will suffer the same shit as Duke Nukem, probably not as bad though since Duke Nukem Forever was in development for a million years.

But yeah make a simple scifi shooter game with monsters and shotguns, that show off id's new technical stuff, slap Doom on the cover and you got yourself a get rich quick scheme.

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hardcore_gamer said:

What about you? How would you react to the idea of Doom 4 being more of a modern shooter instead of a fast paced brainless kill fest?


Doom (of old) is so much more than a "fast paced brainless kill fest". As far as I'm concerned you're asking the reader "Would you rather it be bad or bad?" here.

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I wouldn't be very surprised, considering the lousy and tasteless media that has been added to the Doom franchise over the years, that either derails too much the main theme (the movie) or shows grotesque focus on the marine character (the comic, the "john was a zombie" fan-fic and a plethora of others).

Still, I wish Doom 4 doesn't turn out to be as bland as Heretic 2, with cookie-cutter features. No matter how disliked or disappointing to some, Doom 3 has its own charm, I hope Doom 4 will have too, but the "more action-oriented" part makes it sound bland, whereas the over-the-top noisy ambience of Doom 3 is not. I think that when Doom 4 screenshots appear, all I'll say will be "Nice...".

EDIT: I hope it doesn't have regenerating health, but decaying health, like in Doom 3 :)

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Carmack has said they are going for a "cinematic" feel with Doom 4. Take that as you will. I'm going to guess that the days of having tons of monsters on the screen are behind us forever, due to the highly detailed models. And we already know Doom 4 is going to be pushed further than Rage and be 30fps instead of 60 on consoles.

but if it was just a full 3D remake of the original the newer audience that wasn't around then would simply laugh it off as being simplistic and rather repetitive.


And dark corridors with closet monsters aren't?

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GeckoYamori said:

Carmack has said they are going for a "cinematic" feel with Doom 4. Take that as you will.


Doom 4 confirmed for point and click adventure

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GeckoYamori said:

Carmack has said they are going for a "cinematic" feel with Doom 4. Take that as you will.


Uhmmmmm....what?

I am sorry, but how do you add "cinematic feel" into a Doom game? Are we talking about cinematic gameplay like what is found in the Uncharted games? We really need more detail about this, assuming it is even true since I haven't heard anything about this before.

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hardcore_gamer said:

I am sorry, but how do you add "cinematic feel" into a Doom game? Are we talking about cinematic gameplay like what is found in the Uncharted games? We really need more detail about this, assuming it is even true since I haven't heard anything about this before.

Everyone's playing the guessing game at the moment. If you want details rather than speculation you'll have to wait for them just like the rest of us.

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hardcore_gamer said:

I have personally never liked the Serious Sam games, the level design always felt bland and boring. The levels were just big arenas where you would get swarmed by monsters over and over, it was boring.

That's what I think of Serious Scam as well. Also I hated that you couldn't backtrack a lot because the way through the level was blocked off again. Bah. Anyhow it all got boring fast.

I'm not worried about Doom 4 or Skyrim or any other game that may come down the pipe. I prefer to wait and see what they come up with and pass judgement when I actually play the game.

I'm happy that we'll get a Doom 4. Bring it on! :D

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hardcore_gamer said:

People who claim that Doom 3 was "nothing like the original" have probably never played the original for more then 10 min.

Yup, sorry.. I've been playing Doom for about 14 or 15 years.

I repeat myself from earlier, but Doom 3's levels are a lot more linear than Doom 1 or 2's. You don't have the interestingly interconnecting structures that encourage exploration and interesting tactics. This is also the problem with Serious Sam, Painkiller, and Bulletstorm, all of which probably try to be Doom clones to some degree.

You can't split a level into chunks and have each person work on a chunk of the level, when each part of the level has such a large effect on the other parts. Maybe I should start calling the levels in modern games "assembly line levels".

I'm half-hoping they fix this problem in Doom 4, but again, Doom 3 already destroyed what I like about Doom 2, so..

Oh, and if sights bother you, sometimes I feel like Doomguy stares down the sights 100% of the time. Maybe they should do that for Doom 4. :P

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Spleen said:

Yup, sorry.. I've been playing Doom for about 14 or 15 years.

Face it, apart from the subpar level design, usage of almighty artifacts (one in late-game Doom 3 and two in a safely ignorable expansion) and PDA/texts, which don't influence gameplay, Doom 3 is pretty much the same shit as Doom 1, proven by the relatively large existence of classic-style Doom 3 releases. It would be wonderful if Doom 4 resembles Doom 3 and doesn't get worse.

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Jesus fuck you people are whiny assholes.

I'm personally glad that Doom 4 is being made. Why? Because I'm not some fucking grognard who is still living in 1996. Games have changed, therefore Doom will change as well.

Furthermore, NO CONCRETE INFO HAS BEEN GIVEN ABOUT DOOM 4 YET. And that one simple fact makes posts like this...

Spleen said:

There's nothing to "kill" in the Doom franchise, since id has already shown us that they've abandoned the original gameplay years ago.

40oz said:

But yeah make a simple scifi shooter game with monsters and shotguns, that show off id's new technical stuff, slap Doom on the cover and you got yourself a get rich quick scheme.


...completely fucking stupid.

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LOL @grognard. People use that term all the time on RPG sites when addressing those who happen to prefer older editions of a game.

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Mr. Freeze said:

I'm personally glad that Doom 4 is being made. Why? Because I'm not some fucking grognard who is still living in 1996. Games have changed, therefore Doom will change as well.

Since you called me out, I have to respond to that: don't get me wrong, I'm also glad Doom 4 is being made, since I know it can't get any worse. :P

Thanks, btw, I learned a new word today. :)

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