List the things you like and don't like in WADS!

The thread title says it all. Basically, make a list of the things you enjoy and don't enjoy seeing/playing in WADS, and explain your reasons with a few words or sentences for each thing you list.

Here is mine:

Things I like/don't like:

- Maps with lots of zombies: Because they are fun to kill and are rarely abused (unless they are chaingunners that you can't see) by map authors.

- A proper balance between linearity and non-linearity for map layouts: Maps that are just a straight line are less likely to be fun but that doesn't mean I would like the map to be a complete maze that I constantly get lost in.

- The purpose of switches is almost always obvious: I hate it when I find a switch, press it and then have no clue what it just did. If I already sort of know what the switch in front of me will do then it makes things more simpler and thus more fun.

- The maps are of proper length: I don't like it when maps take forever to finish. Not to mention that its harder for the author to keep each map fresh and fun the longer it grinds on.

- Good enemy placement: Enemy placement can make or kill a map. Good placement can make an otherwise good map great, and poor enemy placement can make an otherwise bad map terrible. I don't want chaingunners in massive open areas, arcviles where I can't see them, etc.

- A balance between gameplay and detail: While I am not saying that you can't have huge amounts of detail and still have great gameplay, most of the time when I play a map with super high levels of detail gameplay feels like an afterthought.

- There has to be enough ammo: It can brake a map when there is not enough ammo, simply put. Same thing applies to health.

And that is all I can think of right now.

What about you?

What do you like/don't like seeing in WADS?

what i like:non linear map (there isn't enough map that give the player lot of freedom)
what i'm fed up with:linear map(even if beautifull and atmospheric), predictable traps(for example you take a key and you face an army of teleporting monsters)
map with too many health power up
map with no secret area

http://www.doomworld.com/vb/doom-general/55396-your-favourite-map-style/

I'm pretty sure everyone would agree on something like "proper balance of linearity", "proper enemy placement", "proper length", "enough ammo", etc. :P


+A strong, coherent theme. I don't like it when maps are all over the place design-wise.

+Maps that are made to please the mapper himself, not the audience. Such maps have higher potential to be truly great (of course they also have higher potential to be crappy depending on your tastes, but it's better to be awesome/crappy than just mediocre).

-Maps that are afraid of letting the player to die. Generally speaking, if I screw up badly in a game, I should also die in the game.

-Sprite and sound replacements. Stop doing them already! They're only distracting when we have already gotten used to the stock resources over the years and then suddenly an idiot mapper throws the whole thing off by replacing monster breathing sounds or something else as ridiculous. Plus, ricocheting bullets and falling casings are fucking annoying.

-D_RUNNIN

hardcore_gamer said:

Things I like/don't like:

- Maps with lots of zombies

Things I like/don't like:

* Maps with lots of archviles
* New music
* High detail
* The original skies
* Maps with lots of chaingunners
* Textures
* Colors
* Weapons
* DOOM

Things I like in wads:

1. Good music - Background music may affects the map atmosphere, this is very important for me!!!
2. Nice texture, good texture may leads the map very beautiful, like SOD map31, AV map13, Cchest3 map27.
3. Many monsters - So much monsters lead the map fun to play with.
4. Lots of rockets and BFG provided - Very fun, good spamming too!!!
5. Good monsters placement - Depends on skills, bad placement affects the time a lot.
6. Good challenging areas - Nice! it test the player's ability!
7. Lots of plasma spam - Plasma gun is always my favourite weapon!
8. Many Cyberdemons - Killing cyberdemons is fun!

Things I don't like in wads:

1. Too much zombies - Too much hitscan!!! Too much chaingunners will be a pain!!!
2. Archviles always located in the middle of monster hordes or large outdoor area - It leds the map challenging! Archviles may easily brings monsters back to life if it placed in the middle of monsters hordes, and damages will easily suffer in large outdoor area.
3. Too much revenants - I hate to dorge with charging missiles!!!
4. Complex and maze maps - I don't like to take so much time memorizing maps and get lost finally.
5. Very limited ammo and health - I hate it and I don't like to dead so often since I sucks at UV Tyson!!!
6. Useless secrets - Useless secrets sucks, no surprise for the player.
7. Poor purpose of switches - If I press a switch, and then I don't know what's the use or which place it activate it, it will waste a lot of time founding it.
8. Hidden monsters behind fake wall - I don't like to hear weather monsters are dead or not.

I feel weird for liking short and linear maps. /:

Jodwin said:

Plus, ricocheting bullets and falling casings are [/b]fucking annoying[b].

You must be hating KDiZD.

MSPaintR0cks said:

I feel weird for liking short and linear maps. /:

It's okay buddy I'm here for you. I watch speedruns beforehand so I can make my own playthrough as linear and short as possible.

I like bright colors in my maps because I'm like 3.
I'm sick of fighting the same damn enemies over and over again.
D_RUNNIN is fine with me, but I'll always appreciate new music.
Not a fan of new weapons.

Like
- levelsets/megawads where the place you end a level is where you start the next level. (example - Anything Ultimate Doomer has put out)
- new music in maps, even in vanilla doom (ex - mars war)
- Gradually more difficult progression of enemies from zombies to cyberdemons (classic doom, Strain)

Dislike
- When a megawad's levels don't flow together at all and you jump around from map to map with no clear indication on how you've got from point A-B (ex - ending a level by hitting a switch, and the next level finds you in the middle of the map with no indication to how you got that far already
- naming a level to be like a certain location (power plant, living quarters) and not making the actual level resemble anything remotely power plant-like or livable, even given the usual abstract level design. (ex - Strain, most levels titled "mansion", some of the middle levels in doom 2)
- Introducing all the enemies in the game quickly with no sense of progression (plutonia, Hell revealed)
- completing a demo/first episode of a great looking in-progress wad where the next episodes have been in development for so long their completion is unlikely (ex - RTC-Hub 1, many others)

Many revenants suck, too early archviles - basically a slug a ton from finish to start... everything loses relevance if overdone.
I like balance

pizzabob18 said:

Like
- levelsets/megawads where the place you end a level is where you start the next level. (example - Anything Ultimate Doomer has put out)
- new music in maps, even in vanilla doom (ex - mars war)
- Gradually more difficult progression of enemies from zombies to cyberdemons (classic doom, Strain)

Dislike
- When a megawad's levels don't flow together at all and you jump around from map to map with no clear indication on how you've got from point A-B (ex - ending a level by hitting a switch, and the next level finds you in the middle of the map with no indication to how you got that far already
- naming a level to be like a certain location (power plant, living quarters) and not making the actual level resemble anything remotely power plant-like or livable, even given the usual abstract level design. (ex - Strain, most levels titled "mansion", some of the middle levels in doom 2)
- Introducing all the enemies in the game quickly with no sense of progression (plutonia, Hell revealed)
- completing a demo/first episode of a great looking in-progress wad where the next episodes have been in development for so long their completion is unlikely (ex - RTC-Hub 1, many others)

You should consider making a map for Progressive Fiction (if you're a mapper). It's pretty aligned with your philosophy.

DuckReconMajor said:

D_RUNNIN is fine with me, but I'll always appreciate new music.

I wouldn't mind hearing the same song over and over again, but IMHO D_RUNNIN is the worst song in Doom 2.

I like megawads, and mods replace large amounts of graphics/music/etc.

I dislike Arch-Viles period. I can stand Revenants and Pain Elementals, but Arch-Viles just suck.

Things I like:

1. Harmony. Wall textures being offseted properly, not having a start right next to a middle. Upper/lower textures which are matching with the floor which they're edging
2. Balanced ammo and health
3. Monster progression done well. Since it is unknown what "well" may mean in this case (even Doom II itself doesn't have a proper one), I'm still on to figure it out for me myself
4. Ambushes of all time! I'm fond of being scared by a Baron just popping up right in front of me

Things I don't like:

1. Many good wads have this annoying feature, I'm getting disgusted by it pretty soon... Automap showing original Doom II level name!!!!111111!!!!!111One!!11111!!!11!
2. Of course, obvious laziness of the mapper that is ecountered very easily. Both in harmonic and glitchic features
3. If D_COUNT, D_DDTBLU or D_AMPIE are left in for the levels they're featuring by just simple laziness again
4. Monsters being stuck in hallways, items that can be picked up through walls or being threatened by flying projectiles in a fuckin' narrow hallway. The last never appealed for me.

I like plain vanilla Doom PWADs the most (basically just a map, no extras, no advanced port features).

I'm not real crazy about Wolf3D nazis and textures, unless it trully fits in with the map's theme (and that's pretty rare).

I don't like hardcore slugfests like Hell Revealed and the final stages of Alien Vendetta, etc.

I don't care if the map is linear or open-ended, so long as it's fun to play through at least once. In megawads, a mix of both styles is preferable. Ditto with short vs. long maps.

Basic architecture and gameplay are more important than how pretty the map looks.

I like maps that have a nice theme, but not over-detailed. Decent texturing and thing placement goes a long ways.

Things I don't like in WADS:

* Monsters caged in tiny sectors, especially Cyberdemons and Spiderdemons, ending up becoming mere turrets. I prefer the bosses to be free and mighty, not caged all the time.

* lack of Doom 2 features in Doom 2 maps. If I wanted that, I would have downloaded a Doom 1 pwad. Otherwise, I prefer to encounter chaingunners, SSGs, hell knights, mancubi and so on. Maps designed by nostalgics or those converted from Doom 1 are prone to this.

* gratuitous inclusion of teleporters in deep slime pits, when they don't fit thematically. Use service elevators or service ladders instead.

* key crossroad hub design, where there are 4 doors into the 4 directions, one of them unlocked, the rest blue, red and yellow, taken progressively.

* linear design like in modern games, where there are several doors, only one being able to open.

* inclusion of BFG9000 and/or spiderdemons in Doom 1 Episode 2

* maps with TEKGREN/METAL2/cracked STONE textures only, and hard to navigate layout. Utterly boring.




What I like in WADS:

* shameless inclusion of SS guards, especially when Wolf3d textures are added nearby, naturally combined with similar Doom textures (such as WOOD1).

purist said:

You should consider making a map for Progressive Fiction (if you're a mapper). It's pretty aligned with your philosophy.

Unfortunately, my mapping experience consists of one basic textured room I made about 4 years ago. Which is a shame as I have tons of ideas and even full on megawad ideas I would love to make, but I'm just not a good mapmaker.

You were right though, I don't know how progfiction slipped under my radar, I'm having a blast playing the latest build!

like:
- Ammo placement that forces the player not to rely on a single weapon.
- New music is almost always a good thing to me.
- Secret areas that are interesting on their own and not just a little room with a gun in it.

dislike:
- Easily overlookable switches. Bonus points if they activate doors a million miles away or something you would never have guessed.
- Maps that are extremly cramped.
- Replacements/new content that doesn't fit in well.
- Required swimming and jumping in zdoom wads.
- Usage of Nazis and Commander Keens.

Things I like in wads

-Hardcore slaughtermaps, even in wads like the original Scythe. (With a few limits even there)
-In non-slaughterfest maps, short-and-sweet maps whether they're linear or not.
-In big maps, I don't mind if there's at least interesting landmarks to look at and whatnot.
-In the case of secrets, well-hidden secrets that are actually worth the effort of finding.
-Map30 levels without the Demon Spitter, particularly if they're as epic as the ones in the Scythe series. Conversely, equally-awesome map30's with the Icon of Sin. (SOD's Map30 is one example of the latter type)

Things in wads that I'm sick of

-Hard-to-find secrets that give little rewards in return.
-Too many hitscanners in wide open areas without cover, especially chaingunners.
-Archviles in places that I can't hide from their attacks. Even if I can't see them, I better at least be able to avoid getting hit.
-Exits that require the player to die OR leave with almost no health left. That's a huge no-no for me, especially if the former happens. (If that happens at the final map of a UDoom episode, that's fine. If it happens in a Doom II megawad, that's a major kick in the nuts.)
-Like I said in a few other threads, Eternal Doom-style switch hunts. Yet another major turn-off for me, especially if the switches are nearly invisible, which for me, is the ultimate "fuck you" you can pull on me... well, as far as trying to speed through levels goes.
-Voodoo dolls placed arbitrarily. I don't mind if they're used as part of some sort of time limit to complete a certain map, but having them out in the open just makes me want to vomit.
-Anti-climactic Icon of Sin maps. That's a very minor one in my opinion, since on the bright side, at least it's easy to get them over with.

I like this kind genre of discussion, as http://www.doomworld.com/vb/wads-mods/55849-wads-most-overrated-underrated-most-surprising-disappointing/
or http://www.doomworld.com/vb/doom-general/55396-your-favourite-map-style/

Personally, being to mapper, I bring a lot of importance for the critics of the players, what they like, or what they like not. First of all according to my preferences and my objectives to conceive a wad, and then, if my preferences are good with regard to the players, I notice that most of you think as me, it is rather reassuring. :)

However, there are players for all the styles, and me, personally, I'm not a fan of slaughtermaps, I have preferences to make traps very sadistic rather than of placed a troop of 251 Hell Knights in front of a door in my maps :D

@FranckFRAG - Would killer exits count as one of those kind of sadistic traps that you would use? I'm not the only one that thinks that that kind of trap takes sadism way too far.

gun_psycho said:

killer exits

Killer exits make a lot of sense if the mapper wants to make an episodic (Doom 1-style) map set for Doom 2. After all, it's the only way to force you to start each episode from scratch (which you're already doing in Doom 1). My only problem with killer exits is when the map doesn't make it clear that you're supposed to propel your dead body into a tiny hole that works as an exit with the rocket launcher (I'm looking at you, Scythe 2).

gun_psycho said:

@FranckFRAG - Would killer exits count as one of those kind of sadistic traps that you would use? I'm not the only one that thinks that that kind of trap takes sadism way too far.

Uuuh, if you think that them " killers exits " are very, to see too sadistic, then you are good far from my definition of the sadism :P Soon, I'm going to release a speedmapping megawad named Swift Death (already the name gives an idea of the style of the gameplay x) ), when you can play it, you will see what that is of the sadism to me :> (no, I reassure you, it is not a jokewad).

@ Jodwin, Yes, killers exits are really useful for at the end of episodes for example, for a megawad releases of which is made in every episode. That allows to keep a stable difficulty, or to give a new breath to the game, always more while interessant to begin a map pistols start that with every weapons acquired at the beginning :)

Dislike: Anything that slows gameplay down to a crawl. Taking out tons of Demons or Cacodemons with an unpowered fist and pistol, a section of the level that's nothing but like six or seven descending lifts in a row that you can't really sprint over, a room made of nothing but slow ass elevator lifts that takes forever to navigate, etc..

Similarly, any level that requires a weapon as part of a players armament and then hides it in an obscure secret. I kind of like operating on earned information and having to idbeholda in order to figure out that the mapper doesnt expect me to take on bunches of toughs with the single shotty isn't very fun. Also along this line - maps not optimized for pistol starts. I won't hate on wads made for engines that autosave, though.

Also, damage floors you have to cross with inadequate enviro protection, be it health or suits. Didn't do well enough killing monsters? Tough, restart the map.

Other than that my tastes are pretty broad and becoming broader. I slagged Chris Klie and bob Carter's lost episodes of doom on my initial playthrough but on my replay for my blog I'm finding a lot more to love in this lovechild of '94 sensibilities. It's not as good as say sleep's stuff but still enjoyable.

Likes:

- Innovative gameplay.
- Replayability and randomness.
- Non-linear level design.
- Interesting layouts and architecture.
- Good texture alignment.
- Smart implementation of skill levels.
- Difficulty.
- Challenging puzzles.
- Convincing atmosphere.
- Survival and/or horror aspects.

Dislikes:

- Repetative level design (copy pasta).
- Symmetrical map layouts.
- Symmetrical monster placement.
- Typical themes (hell, techbase, etc).
- Predictability of traps.
- Lack of secrets.
- Time-consuming puzzles.
- Infinite ammo.
- Low quality or inconsistent sprite/texture graphics.
- Neglect of automap appearance (no "secret" or invisible linedefs).
- Lack of height variation.
- Too many resources (health, ammo, weapons).
- Newfangled ZDoom/GZDoom features (DECORATE monsters/weapons, 3D floors, OpenGL shit, etc).

What I like:
-Gothic, medieval, temple themes
-New monsters that fit in with the environment
-Epic boss fights
-Fun/Thrilling/Creepy new music that suits the map(s)
-Horror-themed maps that managed to provide some good scares/shocks
-Dark, eerie maps
-Innovative, complex gameplay that isn't always about combat (or, basically, puzzle maps)
-New weapons that suit the WAD's style
-MegaWADs that flow nicely throughout (no slow starts, lengthy middle parts)
-Remakes that use only clever touches of nostalgia
-Pretty much anything not classic style
-Visually stunning maps (that don't overdo it)
-Slaughter WADs
-Jumping enabled and required (I think it's a fun thing to do, jumping around a map and exploring)
-Some non-linearity

What I don't like:
-Remakes that are basically altered versions of the original map(s) they are based on
-MAZES.
-Ammo is sparse; too many monsters
-Long, drawn-out, tedious pacing
-MegaWADs with a slow start and/or middle
-Icon of Sin finales
-Classic-style maps
-Bland, generic maps with no creativity; very flat, linear maps
-New monsters that don't fit the environment/theme
-Too much ammo; overpowered weapons
-Over-powered bosses
-Poor monster placement (no surprises, no creativity, no planning, etc)
-Invasion-style maps
-Too much health/not enough health
-Jumping is disabled
-Maps that are so nonlinear, they're confusing and tedious
-Very square architecture/poor texture usage
-Brutal Archvile assaults for no reason

Things I like:
-Mazes that are based on interesting ideas.
-Easter eggs.
-Shitloads of secret areas.
-Complexity.
-Puzzles.
-Arch-viles.
-When levels are interconnected.
-Good difficulty proggresion.
-New textures.
-Cyberdemons which aren't stuck in cages.
-Areas of a level which are only there to add to the atmosphere.
-Large secrets.
-Maps which don't follow the usual weapon progression (like giving the rocket launcher as the first weapon).

Things I dislike:
-When Megawads and other multi-map WADs where levels are too easy if they are played continuously (except for contests and speedmap compilations.)
-Mazes which are just a bunch of random interconnected hallways
-When Megawads don't change the music.
-When maps have only a few or no secrets.
-When Megawads don't have secret levels.
-When secret levels don't have anything that makes them different from other levels.
-Overuse of instant teleporters.
-Any map that looks ugly.
-Inescapable pits or traps that instantly kill you, unless the're near the beginning of the level (as in MAP30 of TNT)
-When Megawads give all the weapons in the first few levels.
-When BFGs appear in the first 10 maps of a megawad.
-Unmarked exits.
-When you can't revisit any area of a level once you get to the exit.
-When levels begin with monsters attacking you.
-When hidden lines are used in secrets.

The One Thing I Don't Like:

-Unfair usage of zombies. In my opinion, zombies used best are for distractions in groups. See, you have to kill the zombies first as they can cause unavoidable damage. After you've done that, you can get on with the rest. If there is a huge amount of zombies at once, you get inevitably damaged and there's nothing you can do about it. What if you had like 4% HP and there are no medkits in the accessible area? Making damage avoidable as much as possible (and such also enabling reality runs) is a very important thing in a map, I think.

What I also like

-Interesting easter eggs
-Secret levels that distinguish themselves from the rest of the megawads significantly. (Fragport's two secret levels for instance)
-A computer map powerup being in a secret area. (As long as that kind of secret isn't in every single level.
-Womb Level-type areas in hell maps.

More of what I can't stand

-Inescapable pits. Totally agreed with Processingcontrol there.
-Pain Elemental spam
-Secret areas that can have a very limited amount of time once opened, especially if said secrets have little reward in return as I said earlier.
-Boss arenas with very little to no cover, particularly if said bosses are the hitscan-types.
-Too many new weapons