What is the big deal about pistol starts in maps?

I hear people complain sometimes while playing WADS about how each map doesn't support a pistol start. This is something I have never really understood.

Does anyone actually load a WAD just so that they can play some single individual map instead of playing the whole thing in a row like people usually do? I don't think I have ever fired up a WAD and teleported straight to some single level because the thought of starting with only the pistol at some single level in the middle of the WAD daunts me.

Am I the only one who feels this way? Why are pistol starts important?

Replay value. First, I do play the maps sequentially, but sometimes I want to return to some very specific maps in the megawad, and I wish to have a pistol start compatibility there.

Pistol starts tend to make a map more challenging than starting the map after "inheriting" weapons, ammo, health, and ammo from previous maps. Furthermore, pistol starts allow the map author to "standardize" the gameplay, and not have to account for the varying amounts of ammo and types of weaponry different players may have picked up before.

It's generally considered the mark of a well-crafted map when it affords exciting and fair gameplay from a pistol start.

I kinda go both ways sometimes. Of course when I first play a megawad I play from beginning to end while saving. Then when I finish sometimes I feel like playing a specific level in the megawad so I IDCLEV to that level and play from pistol start. Sometimes if a level is difficult from pistol start or I simply don't feel like earning the weapons/ammo I'll just hid IDFA and play the level that way. Either way I just like messing around and having fun depending on my mood.

But yeah, making a map work sequentially and from pistol start is a mapping quality that everyone should have.

(G)ZDoom autosaves at the start of every level so there is no real penalty for death while vanilla doom and most other ports do not autosave so the penalty for dying is to restart the level form pistal start. If a wad dose not allow for pistal starts and is not designed only for a port with autosaves then it is probably a liiittle broken.

Also, yeah I hop to maps I liked in the middle of a wad for a reply with the added difficulty of a pistal start for a different experience then I might have had in my normal run though.

As a MIDI composer and have the ability to test play a map before I write music for it, I play it from pistol start.

Sure, I enjoy playing megawads straight through too. But by designing each level with pistol starts in mind also adds hugely to the extended playability of the wad. It means that when you've met the challenge of a complete playthrough you can go back and try to get through each level starting with the pistol. In other words it's an added bonus, and a hugely enjoyable one.

Two words: Speed Running. http://doomedsda.us/wadlist8.html

While I personally don't pistol start each level, and like to carry my weapons from the previous level, I sometimes like to fire up a single level off and see how quickly I can beat it. It also makes testing easier, and also leaves room for mistakes if your doing a complete run, like say if you waste ammo in map10 that it doesn't mean you'd have to suffer through map11, or if you get killed on Map11 it is possible to pistol start the level.

Any good mapset should be able to be played as a whole as well as being able to get played through in it's individual parts.

I always play from pistol start, 4th skill, no saves. That's the only way for me.

If you die, you're left with your pistol and 50 bullets.

Any map that isn't balanced with a pistol start in mind will be broken if the player ever dies. Any mapset that is balanced with the idea that the player will not ever die even on the highest difficulty isn't going to be all that entertaining.

Then there's megawads with maps from different authors.

Phml said:

Any map that isn't balanced with a pistol start in mind will be broken if the player ever dies.

How so? There is this thing called "a saved game". I never, ever start from a pistol start when I died, I just load my last save.

Well, that's you. And if you've never saved yourself into a bad spot to where you couldn't possibly get out alive, you have been very lucky.

Yeah? Accessibility for one, it's much better being able to pick a level you really liked and just go with it, and not having to finish like 5 levels prior to it in order to have a fighting chance. Demos too, for single-level demos (which are the vast majority) it's so much more convenient to have something to fight back with at the start instead of scrambling around with a peashooter. Restarting a level with pistol start after dying is a matter of preference, but if the map is not viable with pistol start, that preference's going straight out of the window.
It's really a matter of effort for the map maker. I have to ask, how do people not make pistol start friendly maps? Do they play through the entire wad every time they want to test, say, a new combination of enemies?

DuckReconMajor said:

Well, that's you. And if you've never saved yourself into a bad spot to where you couldn't possibly get out alive, you have been very lucky.

Making multiple saves is your friend.

DuckReconMajor said:

Well, that's you. And if you've never saved yourself into a bad spot to where you couldn't possibly get out alive, you have been very lucky.

Its all a matter of common sense.

Save when you have progressed through a difficult area and still have a decent amount of health and ammo.

Don't save when you have very little health and very little ammo.

Simple.

hardcore_gamer said:

I hear people complain sometimes while playing WADS about how each map doesn't support a pistol start. This is something I have never really understood.

Does anyone actually load a WAD just so that they can play some single individual map instead of playing the whole thing in a row like people usually do? I don't think I have ever fired up a WAD and teleported straight to some single level because the thought of starting with only the pistol at some single level in the middle of the WAD daunts me.

Am I the only one who feels this way? Why are pistol starts important?

For me, I treat each map like it's a puzzle. A puzzle with a lot of action involved, but a puzzle nonetheless. It's more challenging, but starting with just a pistol increases the prominence of strategy and puzzle-solving elements. I was initially hesitant to the idea at first, but after playing Congestion 1024 I greatly enjoyed the difference.

For that reason, I think ideally every map should be doable from pistol start, disregarding things like hubs or port projects that explicitly depend on carryovers. I don't think that's the one and only correct way to play, but given the choice between two equally viable playstyles (pistol start or carryover) I'll choose pistol start.

Xeros612 said:

Making multiple saves is your friend.

But quicksave is a better friend. Also, I used multiple saves on XBLA Doom, but when you load on PC the cursor doesn't stay where you saved, so either you can sit and try to remember where you are or keep loading the wrong save.

hardcore_gamer said:

Its all a matter of common sense.

Save when you have progressed through a difficult area and still have a decent amount of health and ammo.

Don't save when you have very little health and very little ammo.

Simple.

You can't always know how much is 'decent', as a wad (or any game for that matter) can surprise you with a very difficult part, especially if it isn't quite balanced the best.

Pistol start possibility is one of those elements that make doom as awesome as it is.

Using saves takes the intensity out of Doom.

DuckReconMajor said:

But quicksave is a better friend. Also, I used multiple saves on XBLA Doom, but when you load on PC the cursor doesn't stay where you saved, so either you can sit and try to remember where you are or keep loading the wrong save.

It can't be that hard to remember out of a mere five slots(regarding vanilla-esque ports) and/or naming it something memorable.

There are so many reasons that I shouldn't have to explain it.

As for the save game debate, of which has been brought up by you repeatedly, I can say that the overuse of save games takes any and all challenge out of Doom. I only really save for large maps, and even then, only once or twice during the entire experience. After that, I play it again without saving, because I feel like I have to improve at what I'm doing.

hardcore_gamer said:

I don't think I have ever fired up a WAD and teleported straight to some single level because the thought of starting with only the pistol at some single level in the middle of the WAD daunts me.

That's unbelievably sad.

Doom 2 MAP11 and MAP16 are good examples of levels that are more fun with pistol starts than if you started with a full set of weapons.

I've never felt the need to save part-way through those levels. They are not too big so I don't mind restarting them, but on the other hand they don't get too easy as you pick up the bigger weapons.

Because pistol starts really adds for multiplayer experience.
> Join survival server in the middle of MAP17
> Join game, pistol only
> Open first door
> 10 barons of hell beats the shit out of you so hard that makes you regret to born
> Alt+F4



Also, some maps can be entirely different if started from pistol start.

E3M8 in normal course: Select BFG and instakill Spider Demon. No skill required.

E3M8 from pistol start: Epic battle. Grab the rocket launcher, and cicle the arena counter-clockwise collecting the rockets and firing them at the spider, when rockets are out, get down to the building at the center of it, and use the plasma to finish the spider out. Greatest epic battle ever!

How so? There is this thing called "a saved game".

While you're at it, you could add there is also this thing called IDDQD. Some of us prefer to play without crutches.

Alternatively: if the intended behavior was for the player to not suffer any penalty from dying, why would the game remove all weapons and leave us with a pistol?

Saving is good once your gaming session is over as to keep progress in a megawad. On the other hand, save abuse/spam removes any difficulty, tension or challenge. Again, might as well play on IDDQD and save yourself the trouble of tediously saving and loading every few minutes.

Sergeant_Mark_IV said:

... E3M8 ... Greatest epic battle ever!

Unless you make the mistake of playing that level with the -fast option.

(Actually there will still be an epic battle, but you will not necessarily be a part of it.)

Phml didn't say:
Using the save feature is a nice way of not forcing imaginary rules upon yourself.

Fixed that for you.

Doom has saves?

Xeros612 said:

Using the save feature is a nice way of not forcing imaginary rules upon yourself.

What rules?

i do quite often open up larger, multi-map wads and warp to specific levels. Scythe 2 map22, for example, or Vanguard map02.

i do at times use savegames, but if it's something i really care about playing, something i am determined to play through and feel satisfied about doing so, there's really no other way to do it than in one full run.

[BOFH mode on] Ahh, so you think you're too good for pistol start, eh? I bet you also enjoy tea and crumpets while playing Doom... clickety-click... No problem. From now on, when you "save" your game, it'll warp you back to the first map, and every time you die you'll start the level over with bare fists! :->