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C30N9

How many of you guys play Nightmare! normaly?

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Yes I know there are speedrunners. But are there any players who play at Nightmare! for checking the map normaly?

It feels to me harder than Max. Hard for Doom :P.

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Well no for me. If I play doom on Nightmare, I will made a NM Speed run. If I want to check the map normally, I just choose -nononsters category.

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Occasionally. Sometimes, it can turn even extremely easy wads into challenging levels.

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xvertigox said:

If I want more of a challenge I'll use -skill 4 -fast

I'd rather do that too.
When i played on Nightmare, I got stuck in E1M9 in UDoom and MAP02 in Doom 2...

But I kinda like Nightmare! It's a real adrenalin pumper! (sorry if this term is not correct...)

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I played on -skill 1 -respawn -turbo 255 once. It was hardcore. But I got nervous and fell in the inescapable nukage pit around the donut walkway in E1M3.

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Occasionally, if I am familiar with the level and can comfortably beat it on -skill 4 -fast. There still aren't many standard levels I've beaten on NM (UDoom E1M1/2/3/4/5/6, E2M8, E3M8, Doom2 MAP01-MAP06, Evilution MAP01-MAP02.)

My usual options are -skill 4 -fast for the Id IWADs and Evilution, and -skill 3 -fast for Plutonia and most PWADs.

After habitually playing with -fast for a few years the game just feels wrong without it. I keep thinking "why are those zombies not firing at me? Are they targeting another monster" And "why's that demon moving so slowly? I didn't realise this map had slippery floors" etc.

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magicsofa said:

Checking the map?


Imagine you downloaded a new WAD and you'd like to play it, but at Nightmare!.

magicsofa said:

Max hard?


I feel there is a giant gap between Ultra Violence and Nightmare!. The difficulty rises from UV to N! a lot.

magicsofa said:

What?


You got my point, didn't you?

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I honestly hoped I would be able to at some point in my life but lately I haven't been playing as much Doom and consequently have been having trouble keeping my skills up to snuff.

Usually Nightmare will fuck up levels that include backtracking through rooms that have cacodemons and hell knights and stuff in em because they are huge ammo wasters and take longer to kill than they do to respawn. I'm sure many maps can be playable with Nightmare + a dehacked patch for infinite ammo but that feels like too much of a crutch.

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No way for me. I'm lucky if I can get anywhere in a megawad on HMP! I may love playing Doom to death but that doesn't make me a good player. I'm just naturally crap at playing computer games...

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I think Nightmare was just added as a joke by the developers. At least that is what I have heard, and I can't say I am having a hard time believing it. Nightmare is so extremely hard that I don't think its possible to beat it without speedrunning. Dealing with the extremely tough monsters is hard enough, but the fact that they just respawn 8 seconds later makes it impossible.

Hell, I think most of the console versions of the game like PSX Doom don't even have nightmare difficulty included.

EDIT: When did my user name description change to "Fáviti member?"

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Yeah, I've heard that too. They added it later as joke in response to any comments saying that the game was easy in UV (in fact, the 3 episodes of Doom ARE easy). I remember that Doom 1.0 (shareware) and 1.1 didn't have Nightmare skill.

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hardcore_gamer said:

Nightmare is so extremely hard that I don't think its possible to beat it without speedrunning. Dealing with the extremely tough monsters is hard enough, but the fact that they just respawn 8 seconds later makes it impossible.

I think it's possible to beat Nightmare mode at normal pace if you have clockwork accuracy and reaction, and are even able to predict what monsters will do, based on the pseudorandom generator's current state. It helps to be a bot, though. Has anyone tried to program a single-player bot able to win any Doom game, including mods (by estimating the power of each new weapon and monster)?

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Yeah I suppose the skill level is simply too difficult to be considered a playable difficulty level, but what the difficulty level includes does not simply make any wad unplayable. At least they had enough consideration to make zombie monsters drop their weapons and ammo every time they are killed after respawning, and ammo pickups give double the amount they should. With that, id software certainly considered that the skill level should have at least some margin for success. I would love to at some point become fierce enough to play the game on nightmare mode on a regular basis.

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I've dabbled but I'm not good enough. I always assume the PWADS have not been playtested to be playable on NM! but I suspect the same is true about the IWADS too.

One WAD I know that would benefit from NM! difficulty is the DTWiD project. There's been a mild debate about what difficulty to make it since UDoom UV difficulty is still not hard for modern Doom players. My answer would be; keep the moster count comparable to the original but playtest in NM! to make it a beatable challenge.

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purist said:

I've dabbled but I'm not good enough. I always assume the PWADS have not been playtested to be playable on NM! but I suspect the same is true about the IWADS too.


If they tested it in IWADs then there will be no "Respawn spot bug" in MAP30(s) (which makes monsters spawned by Final Boss respawn at spot 0,0 in the void, vanilla only) because they could have found a solution to it.

It was like a last spice to add for the game. At least they said that it isn't remotly fair :P.

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I beat the chex quest episodes on nightmare once when I was bored, but that's barely a challenge at all. With regular doom, I never play nightmare.

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it is possible ive watched the xbox live demos whew but i could make it to E2m6 on nightmare in Udoom and map 11 in doom 2

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I don't play it normally, but if it's a level i've beaten tons of times on UV, I play NM. I actually find some levels still to be pretty easy on NM. Nothing that's come out recently of course.

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If health packs double healthed as well as ammo then yes maybe. But its too much of a challenge. UV is a nice laid back ass kicking session you can do drinking a beer and chilling out. Nightmare is too much like trying to beat campers/laggers etc etc on CoD.

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finnw said:

Occasionally, if I am familiar with the level and can comfortably beat it on -skill 4 -fast. There still aren't many standard levels I've beaten on NM (UDoom E1M1/2/3/4/5/6, E2M8, E3M8, Doom2 MAP01-MAP06, Evilution MAP01-MAP02.)


Isn't TNT MAP02 supposed to be one of the most difficult IWAD levels on NM? If you can do that the next few levels should be cakewalks.

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Processingcontrol said:

Isn't TNT MAP02 supposed to be one of the most difficult IWAD levels on NM? If you can do that the next few levels should be cakewalks.

Is it possible you are thinking of Plutonia MAP02? I have trouble with that one on -skill 3 -fast (& I have never finished any Plutonia level on NM.) Of the maps I listed, I found Doom2 MAP05 hardest.

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Plutonia's MAP02 is pretty tough on nightmare mode up until the part where you get to that invisible bridge canyon with the revenants on the other side, then it gets a little ridiculous.

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@finnw
No, I'm thinking about TNT.

I remember I somehow came across an old thread where some speedrunner was saying he was trying to do some of the uncompleted TNT NM speedruns, and MAP02 was one of them (there were only a few others.)

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40oz said:

Plutonia's MAP02 is pretty tough on nightmare

I don't wanna think how Plutonia becomes later on nightmare.

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The best I can do is Ultra-Violence with respawning and fast monsters on. Even then, they respawn so fast it's just stupid. If they responed maybe a minute-a minute and a half, maybe it would be easier. Like said above though, bigger monsters + back tacking = big waste of ammo. I like Nightmare! A lot though (Well, Ultra-Violence + fast and respawning monsters). It makes sense, seing as hell can resurect it's dead.

One of the biggest problems I've had is when your fighting off some monsters but then behind you there are a bunch of other guys shooting at you, because they followed you from before.

I find that the Zombies are WAY harder than the normal monsters because they have hit-scan. I mean, I know the monsters' projectiles are much faster, but nothings faster and more accurate than hit-scan.
You'd have more luck dodging a bullet in real life.

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The only thing I can say to make N! scariest is that if you play it at a Non-Linear map or a revisited map. If the map was very linear it would be a piece of cake because all you do is kill anyone in your way, and no coming back. Non-Linear is pretty obvious. Revisited areas are very hard because you'll need to go forth and come back etc... encountering monsters for the second time.

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