Atmosphere

While I write this, i´m wathching Black Hawk Down...
I think that at least the beggining of the game should have a critical team situation, were the thing goes wrong...

Any ideas???

Hmm, how about a kickarse intro which gives a good view into how your buddies get turned into mincemeat without showing any critters?

If you're referring to the game itself, then I have to disagree with you, because what you're proposing involves active NPCs which fight alongside the player = Not good Doom feel imho.

Please correct me if I misunderstood something.

the team should only be there long enough to be annihilated. team play is not doom...

A good intro sequence, with a "saving private ryan: the first 20 minutes" feeling.
Something that explains why you are fighting all alone.

Remember what was supposed to happen in the intro of early versions of DOOM?

Originally posted by Fredrik
Remember what was supposed to happen in the intro of early versions of DOOM?

Tell me more Fredrik

http://5years.doomworld.com/interviews/johnromero/page3.shtml

ph33r the dark claw...

Yeah, Fred is right. .. "You wait outside guarding the phobos doors with only a pistol {Hey, they explain in this game why you start off with a shitty weapon!} listening to the sounds of gunshots and the cries of your buddies. The noise stops.. nothing. You enter the Phobos base, you hear growling echo through the corridors.. you know they know your here, and there is no turning back now".. thats the premise of Dooms intro.

Oh yeah, they also mention you and the boring ride to Mars. So the begining sequence should start with you coming out of cryo on the starship. {Uh oh, I hope that didnt sound too Homeworld/SystemShock2} Speaking of SS2, that game freaked the hell out of me.. when that ghost popped out of nowhere and asked if I could help him get into the room and then faded away.

DOOM should have ghosts of your comrads every now and then

First of all I´m not Spielberg... and it´s the first time I write something like this. :P

The video starts with a screen flashing, with a S.O.S. message from mars, thermal images showing people running and sounds of bullets and screaming. There´s a problem with the atmosphere, radio doesn´t work after certain distance.

After that, a group of UAC space marines (your team) shows up, ready for action beside the door of the transport ship. The door opens, the lights are really dim and the place sounds dead. The camera shows then some movement, a corpse being pulled to the shadows.

The team starts to move forward, they are heavily armed, including you. Your ships takes off. The team splits to cover a larger area, and you are assigned to search movement from a higher ground, so you take your backpack off and climb a few boxes. The camera shows a zoom of a claw tearing flesh and blood dripping to the ground. Then you see a screen that looks like a radar, there is movement at six o´clock, at 12, at 9... you are surrounded... it´s a trap.

You take your rifle out and get ready to fight. You are the only one at higher ground. The lights turn off and the battle beggins, you see guns flashing and grenades exploding, you can hear the bullets and your comrades screaming... The camera show someone triying to run, totally desperate. Then he receives a fireball hit in his back, he´s dead, and something pulls him to the shadow. Camera back to you.
You fire at the source of the fireballs, looks like you have hit something. You run to where you left your backpack, just to find nothing there. you can see guns flashing at the distance, and then you are attacked by a zombie, you fire your gun without really looking... flashback, you know this guy, yesterday you were playing cards with him.

Something heads to your way, looks like a shadow (it´s a spectre) hits you on the chest and your rifle flies to the shadows, you take your handgun and fire at the movement, you killed him. But now you are stranded, only with a gun and without comunication with the outside world. Your radio just picks up screams.

THE GAME STARTS FROM HERE.

Originally posted by Alboroto
While I write this, i´m wathching Black Hawk Down...
I think that at least the beggining of the game should have a critical team situation, were the thing goes wrong...

Any ideas???

i may be not surprised ,if the intro of DOOM3 will be like that.but this kind of intro is getting a little old(it has been made in many games,HL:opposing force,AVP2).but damn,i can't think of better intro.

Originally posted by dsm
what you're proposing involves active NPCs which fight alongside the player = Not good Doom feel imho.

tim willits has said that NPC will be in DOOM3 ,but it(he?) won't fight alonside with the player

The NPCs had better be something like wounded soldiers who just give the player info - I don't want no stinkin' idiot NPCs to get in my way!

Ive played through one of many 3d-fps recently, Medal of Honor:Allied Assault. This game is very "Saving Ryan's Privates"-ish. You start the game in the back of a truck with all your buddies about to overtake a Nazi installation. You all jump out of the truck and rush a nazi building, but it turns out to be an ambush. No matter how many nazis you kill, more keep coming until either 1)You're dead or 2)all your buddies are. If you die, you have to start over of course...and if you live all your buddies are dead n e wayz.

D3 could start with an intro movie of the experiments that were performed with the teleporters(remember DooM the 1st?), then cut to the monsters that returned(your buddies) and show your teams assignment to infiltrate The Moons of Mars, this would accomplish the movie intro while still setting up a little NPC action without adding any spoilers to what you're gonna be up against and tell a little about what you have to do for the rest of the game.

If D3 started with you and your team geared up and jumping outta your starcraft into a fierce firefight where all your buddies get tore up(a la MOH:AA), then you could still start alone with no weapons(ammo was used up in the initial firefight), all npc's dead ('cuz they're crappy npc's ;) ), and you still have to continue with the mission at hand...

Please dont be jealous of my ingenuity, I have a lot of spare time on my hands this tri...

Well that sounds great n'all, but there's just one minor detail: id aren't that great at coding AI, so the results are bound to be shitty NPCs who shoot you in the back and get in your way. Do we want that?
I think not.
Besides, I can't see why id would spend a lot of time coding advanced NPC AI if they're only making use of it in the beginning.

Um...I reckon it would suck having your comrades around...it does ruin the 'doom' feeling. You should get separated from your team or something and they get murdered, but you miracuously survive.

Or maybe my idea just sucks. Either way...

Originally posted by mmnpsrsoskl
Um...I reckon it would suck having your comrades around...it does ruin the 'doom' feeling. You should get separated from your team or something and they get murdered, but you miracuously survive.

Yeah, gimme the ol' I'm-all-alone Doom feeling anytime.
Hmm, you survive only miracuosly? Heck, you survive because you're a badass.

id should stick with their basic story: Something bad has happened, you and your platoon have been called upon to investigate. You and the guys are sent up to Phobos (or whereever Doom3's first Episode/level/hub) takes place. You, naturally, are ordered to secure the perimeter. Of course, everyone inside is slaughtered and magically
brought back to life as mindless, mutated zombies. All you've heard for the last few minutes are shots fired, screams, bones breaking, and the growls of Demons. Since there's actually silence, you decide to head in...
BEGIN GAME

And why does the player start with only a pistol, hmm?
If he's to secure the perimeter he should at least carry something more than a puny side arm.
Naw, it'd make more sense if he was ordered to keep radio contact with H.Q. or something.

Originally posted by dsm
And why does the player start with only a pistol, hmm?

Because he is a lowly officer who only sweeps toilets and then becomes the badass he is...

Doomguy a fuckin' officer???
Heck no, he's either a private or a sarge!

In the original Doom story, the UAC is performing experiments on some teleporters that were excavated on the moons of mars. After sending stuff through, cargo comes back okay...but when humans are tried, they come back all zombied and freaked out. A team is designated to go check things out. The team lands on the either Phobos or Deimos, cant remember which...and on the way you decide to be an insubordinate who gets his weapons taken away because of your CO being a dick, while the rest of the squad goes to investigate whats happening on the moons of Mars. You hear screems over the radio and hear your buddies getting tore up by things that they cant describe and even things they cant see (spectors). After the screems die down, you figure they're all dead and go to investigate yourself, armed with nothing more than that lousy pistol... and then the game starts...

While this is all fine and good, I believe most military squads dont go in single handedly. That's why there should be NPC's goin with you. Im aware of id's AI, that's why they should all get killed in the first engagement (a la MOH:AA). From here you can pick up their half empty shotguns and maybe a plasma rifle or two, with limited ammo of course, to engage the enemies to come. I liked starting out with a pistol, but you pick up a shotty in the first fifteen seconds of E1M1.

Keep in mind that all this will be beautifully rendered, so I don't think I'll mind NPC's at all, only in the first engagement of course. But it would be cool to run acroos some dude halfway through like E1 who made it that far (ever wonder why there are bodies throughout the levels??) who could give you some recon and/or perhaps an objective...like cutting a power source or telling you where an ammo dump is. Of course, soon after you leave him, you hear a scream and turn around to see him getting chomped on by some baddies.

Much can be done about the story, maybe a complete revamping. Maybe it's in the future of OG DooM and you're a completly different DooMGuy. In that case, id would have much creative justification for any changes they would like to make. The game being beautiful is reason enough for me. Just gimme a shotgun and send me in...

The FMV intros for Quake II & Quake III were really well made, I can't wait to see DOOM's. I'd like them to take the time to show us some of the things they could only describe in text eight years ago. I want to see scientists fuck with a teleporter, then being eaten by something from another world. I want to see a huge dropship landing on the grey sand of Mars, in the shadow of Mount Olympus. I want a lot things.

In the original Doom story, the UAC is performing experiments on some teleporters that were excavated on the moons of mars. After sending stuff through, cargo comes back okay...but when humans are tried, they come back all zombied and freaked out. A team is designated to go check things out. The team lands on the either Phobos or Deimos, cant remember which...and on the way you decide to be an insubordinate who gets his weapons taken away because of your CO being a dick, while the rest of the squad goes to investigate whats happening on the moons of Mars. You hear screems over the radio and hear your buddies getting tore up by things that they cant describe and even things they cant see (spectors). After the screems die down, you figure they're all dead and go to investigate yourself, armed with nothing more than that lousy pistol... and then the game starts...

The human test subjects don't come back zombiefied - they come back all insane. And before the troops (not just a squad - I'm guessing something along the lines of a small company judging by the amount of marine corpses in the game) are even sent there, Phobos is overrun with "something fraggin' evil" coming out of the gateways. The troops are then sent to Phobos and the player is ordered to sequre the perimeter outside the base, as his stupid superior thinks a pistol is sufficient for that task.

While this is all fine and good, I believe most military squads dont go in single handedly. That's why there should be NPC's goin with you. Im aware of id's AI, that's why they should all get killed in the first engagement (a la MOH:AA). From here you can pick up their half empty shotguns and maybe a plasma rifle or two, with limited ammo of course, to engage the enemies to come.

They didn't go in singlehandedly - there were at least more than 50 marines entering the base (judging by the corpses in the game) - the player was just left outside to secure the perimeter (which is a really weak excuse for leaving him with only a pistol - he should've been assigned a task to keep contact with Mars HQ or something)
And Carmack once said that he didn't want to work with human AI which is necessary to create a scene like the one you describe.

I liked starting out with a pistol, but you pick up a shotty in the first fifteen seconds of E1M1.

Yeah, you never get a chance to really use your weakest weapon - id should make it take a little while before you get a weapon better than the pistol in the new game.

Maybe it's in the future of OG DooM and you're a completly different DooMGuy.

Hmm, the macworld video showed a marine who looked almost exactly like the old Doomguy - I doubt that id would work hard on creating such a high-quality model just to throw it away later on, so I have grounds to believe that the old Doomguy will be in the next game, but of course, we don't know whether he'll be a playable character or just an NPC (I hope for the former).

Oh yeah, and I hope the intro will have: Action, cool effects, beautiful looking surroundings, spacecrafts, marines, weapons, suspense.
But the movie should not show any monsters (maybe in a later cinematic, but not in the intro), but we should hear them growl and maybe capture a glimpse of a misshaped shadow.

I hope that in DOOM3 we can have a team of about 3-5 other space marines has escaped the Demons attack and you find other marines from different teams that some of them joins you and the rest stays to make sure that nothing comes back.

Tell me, do you want an fps or a first-person RTS?

Originally posted by FlatHead
The FMV intros for Quake II & Quake III were really well made, I can't wait to see DOOM's. I'd like them to take the time to show us some of the things they could only describe in text eight years ago. I want to see scientists fuck with a teleporter, then being eaten by something from another world. I want to see a huge dropship landing on the grey sand of Mars, in the shadow of Mount Olympus. I want a lot things.

Maybe id should look into this again :)