Diagonal Bunny hopping

I cant believe id STILL hasnt fixed this!@!!!! I was just playing team arena seeing 8 people bunny hop around the arena, it SUCKS ASS AND NEEDS TO BE FIXED FOR DOOM!!!

Doom 3 will have more 'realistic' player speeds, which probably means slower running and slightly less ridiculous jumping.

Well, they more or less fixed that in RTCW because of the stamina drain.

And a solid physics system that should prevent people from doing all that funky engine-bug movements everyone bitches about.

Special movements like strafejumping make multiplayer games fun! id hasn´t "fixed" strafejumping in Q3/Q3TA because it´s an important part of the game! It takes longer to learn the special skills, but that´s just what makes the game valuable for a long time. You can start and play like a newbie and have some fun, and then you can learn to move faster and how to make trick jumps and have even more fun when you learned this. Get it?

And who says "everyone" is bitching about special movements? I just can tell that the whole Quake community will be pissed if id Software makes the movement in Doom3 extremely slow and newbie-friendly without opportunities to enhance your gaming experience.

i love strafe jumping. try to think of it as more of a 'skill' than a bug or something that needs to be fixed. personally i think it would get really boring to always be moving at the same speed, and not being able to give yourself an extra boost when you want it or need it. and yes, you WOULD always be going the same speed, which gets really slow and dull for me. and who uses 'walk', anyways?

every good player i've seen demos of uses it. one example would be from the fatal1ty vs makaveli match on dm13, where they use special jumping and movement skills that they practice day in and day out to perform certain tasks that only few people can do. taking out strafejumping means also taking out many other meneuvers that players have spent hours on learning. its taking out a big chunk of gameplay that many players love, and about 99% use.

the 'realism' argument is kind of stupid and worthless in this situation. quake isn't exactly a 'realistic' game to begin with. i can see the logic in wanting to take it out in counter-strike, but not quake.

Well, "Doom 3" is aimed at realism, primarily because id focuses on singleplay - multiplay comes only second this time.
And don't y'all think it's time we see something new in terms of multiplay strategy instead of the same ol' bunny hopping?

I mean, Doom didn't have any bunny hopping, but it had other bugs, like wall running etc.

I'm sure "Doom 3" will have its own bugs for the gamers to explore.

Not that I care, I'm only interested in the new game's singleplayer campaign.

he was talking about team arena not doom in the first post.

and im not really sure how 'realistic' they can make doom 3. you don't really want it to be counter-strike, do you?

I would preffer a game were running backwards in a staircase would end with your life. That would make you a hell of a lot more fragile when it comes to close combat. Imagine you tripping over some stupid piece of junk in the middle of your way while a Pinkie chases you, only to kill him with your shotgun just when it's about to arrive and stomp you.

Originally posted by Zaldron
Imagine you tripping over some stupid piece of junk in the middle of your way

I don't even want to.

Unless annoying crap like that can be directly related to having clumsy fingers, there's no way in hell I'd play a game where the character's mistakes aren't even my fault.

Tripping would be way more annoying than cool - by realism in Doom I'd prefer:
1. seemingly realistic movement (so that it seems like you're actually in the boots of the marine and not driving some sort of vehicle). This includes movement speed.

2. enemies reacting "realistically" to being hit certain spots, e.g. hitting an imp in the stomach and watch him bend over.

3. Realistic weapon effects (giving the right feel of recoil).

4. Realistic sounds

There's probably more, but I can't think of it all right now.

Some time ago I thought about bullets actually richocheting (sp) off walls so that you'd hit yourself in the face if you fired into a wall right in front of you, but I quickly found out that that'd be annoying as Hell.

Originally posted by Tetzlaff
Special movements like strafejumping make multiplayer games fun! id hasn´t "fixed" strafejumping in Q3/Q3TA because it´s an important part of the game! It takes longer to learn the special skills, but that´s just what makes the game valuable for a long time. You can start and play like a newbie and have some fun, and then you can learn to move faster and how to make trick jumps and have even more fun when you learned this. Get it?

And who says "everyone" is bitching about special movements? I just can tell that the whole Quake community will be pissed if id Software makes the movement in Doom3 extremely slow and newbie-friendly without opportunities to enhance your gaming experience.

1. No it is not, the only reason id hasnt fixed this BUG is because of people such as yourself who have gotten used to cheating, and make a big fuss about it.

2. YOU CANNOT START AND PLAY AS A NEWBIE WHEN OTHERS ARE CHEATING and expect to have fun. Its not a documented feature, and therefore its not something you can easily learn. it started out as a bug and and an exploitation of the engine, it is STILL in no way a SKILL, if anything it takes away from having to use actual SKILLs such as strategy and careful manuvering, and it undermines other skills such as aim and hunting down enemies


3. NEWBIE FRIENDLY? Its called realistic pal. Especially if its a single player focused game such as doom, BUT EVEN IF IT WASNT there should be no stuff like this

Originally posted by SirTacoPaNtZ
i love strafe jumping. try to think of it as more of a 'skill' than a bug or something that needs to be fixed. personally i think it would get really boring to always be moving at the same speed, and not being able to give yourself an extra boost when you want it or need it. and yes, you WOULD always be going the same speed, which gets really slow and dull for me. and who uses 'walk', anyways?

every good player i've seen demos of uses it. one example would be from the fatal1ty vs makaveli match on dm13, where they use special jumping and movement skills that they practice day in and day out to perform certain tasks that only few people can do. taking out strafejumping means also taking out many other meneuvers that players have spent hours on learning. its taking out a big chunk of gameplay that many players love, and about 99% use.

the 'realism' argument is kind of stupid and worthless in this situation. quake isn't exactly a 'realistic' game to begin with. i can see the logic in wanting to take it out in counter-strike, but not quake.

1. Yeah, and id love to be able to use god-mode in the middle of a deathmatch ... its not fair and its not fun

2a. Ohhh, I love this excuse, "everybody's doing it." Lets make cheating bots built in too! and force ALL severs to have sv_cheat 1 on also!

2.b. no it would not, strafe jumping is a bug concerning diagonal calculations. But even if you were right, im sure lots of people have spent time with learning to use aim bots, and i KNOW lots of people "practice" cheats in single-player... so its unfair to THOSE cheaters also?

3. Uhhhh, WERE IN THE NEW DOOM FORUM!!!! I said i hope id fixes this for its next game. But Why shouldnt team arena be realistic? Matter fact, why cant quake be realistic? The point is not realistic or not, its BELIVABLE and more importantly- FUN. Strafe jumping is UNFAIR to non-cheaters, and ruins the suspension of disbeleif.

Originally posted by Xian
Strafe jumping is UNFAIR to non-cheaters, and ruins the suspension of disbeleif.

Whoever says strafe-jumping is cheating? It's as legit as running backward and jumping.

I want a game not a simulator. I mean realism has it's place and all, but not in a game where the environment, technology, weapons and enemy creatures are totally ficticious. I mean c'mon :P

Bah you're a bunch of sissies. I'd like to see a game where your movement has a direct relation with the enviroment. I'd like to try something different, and it's bound to give you some really intense moments.

Unless annoying crap like that can be directly related to having clumsy fingers, there's no way in hell I'd play a game where the character's mistakes aren't even my fault.

Uuh in this case it would be like running backwards until you hit a trashcan. Of course, if you're running forward the marine would just climb it for fuck's sake.

Ive recently started playing counter-strike, and I have found, among other things, tht cheating consists of much more than jumping around wildly. Besides using aimbots, and other crap like that, the people who use these abnormalities to induce killing and raise standinds, are in moral standing not higher than our old nemesis Osama-bin-Laden. These people cant figure out anything better to do than set up a prog. that will hunt down, shoot, AND kill their opponent. The only satisfaction I get while playing with these cheaters, is blowing the crap outta them, and they themselves acuse me of cheating.

When I first started playing RTCW, all i saw were people jumping around and shooting. i just learned to shoot a moving target, which actually made me a much tougher opponent and better player. After playing cs, I realized where those "jumpers" in RTCW came from.

Though aimbots are an actual modification to the way the prog reads scripts, killing a cheater only makes you tougher. I say "let them jump..." my BFg will take care of the rest... >:/

Hm, I find it rather amusing that so many people hate "newbie friendly" games. The reason why a game is made newbie friendly is so that newcomers have a chance of having a great time - jumping onto a server just to constantly get fragged is NOT FUN!
If the newbies haven't got a chance when they join a game for the first time, then they'd just think that multiplay sucks and will quit and stay away from the game.

So, the veterans who get fragged by a newbie AND bitches about it is really a damn sissy and a lousy player imho!

Sure, all the bugs are fun for those who can use them, but they're bound to be a nuisance to some, not to mention that the feel of multiplayer games is too much alike in most games because of these bugs.
No, no, let Doom 3 be something different for a change - if it hasn't got any of the old bugs, then I'm sure it'll prove to be a different, but not necessarily a less entertaining, experience.

Ok?

Originally posted by Xian

1. Yeah, and id love to be able to use god-mode in the middle of a deathmatch ... its not fair and its not fun

2a. Ohhh, I love this excuse, "everybody's doing it." Lets make cheating bots built in too! and force ALL severs to have sv_cheat 1 on also!

2.b. no it would not, strafe jumping is a bug concerning diagonal calculations. But even if you were right, im sure lots of people have spent time with learning to use aim bots, and i KNOW lots of people "practice" cheats in single-player... so its unfair to THOSE cheaters also?

3. Uhhhh, WERE IN THE NEW DOOM FORUM!!!! I said i hope id fixes this for its next game. But Why shouldnt team arena be realistic? Matter fact, why cant quake be realistic? The point is not realistic or not, its BELIVABLE and more importantly- FUN. Strafe jumping is UNFAIR to non-cheaters, and ruins the suspension of disbeleif.

First of all, all your points are based on the assumption that strafe jumping is some kind of downloaded hack or cheat like aimbots. It is in fact, not. Where you relate the usage of god-mode to strafe jumping is truely beyond me. I don't understand why you're pissing your pants over my opinion, either.

Your arguement that it is unfair is totally ridiculous. How is it "unfair" if everybody that plays the game has the same ability you do to use strafe jumping. You don't have to have special scripts, hacks, cheats, or whatever you want to call it to use it. Also don't state that "it's not fun" as a fact, some people like strafe jumping, me included. To me, it makes the game faster, more intense. 98234729384723982734 quake players and myself are not going to appologize or revert the decision to use strafe jumping simply because you don't find it fun.

Then you go on to talk about me using excuses. I don't recall ever using "because everybody did it" as an excuse. It is just a simple fact that a lot of players do use it. Not an excuse. Then again you go back to sarcastic comments about enabling cheats in servers.... ooook. :)

Once again in your next statement you talk about how it is cheating, and that people that use aimbots might find it unfair... for whatever reason you were talking about, I don't know, considering I never said anything about taking strafe jumping out being unfair. Like I said before, aimbots are not available to everybody, strafe jumping is. It's NOT cheating.

Why can't Q3 or Team Arena be realistic? Well- it already is to a degree, but do you really want to have q3 be the same as CS? You can only fix so many things before you change the game completely. I think its great how it is now. Don't talk about Quake being beleivable... I mean... think about what you're playing exactly. And last, it already is fun.

-end that stuff-

Somebody said something about it not being fair for newbies. Incase you didnt know this: People like fatal1ty and Makaveli, and all those good players didnt install quake and then already know how to play that well. They started as newbies also. So obviously, it's not impossible for newbies to learn. It's not like strafe jumping wasn't around when I started. I'm still playing, aren't I? Yes... If you don't like the game, you don't like the game. Some things just aren't going to change that. If you really want to get good or play a lot, then you wouldn't get pissed off and stop playing because of a few petty things you don't agree with. Especially the ones that most Quake players use and enjoy.

So basically, it's not going to change most likely, so:

Originally posted by SirTacoPaNtZ
Somebody said something about it not being fair for newbies. Incase you didnt know this: People like fatal1ty and Makaveli, and all those good players didnt install quake and then already know how to play that well. They started as newbies also. So obviously, it's not impossible for newbies to learn. It's not like strafe jumping wasn't around when I started. I'm still playing, aren't I? Yes... If you don't like the game, you don't like the game. Some things just aren't going to change that. If you really want to get good or play a lot, then you wouldn't get pissed off and stop playing because of a few petty things you don't agree with. Especially the ones that most Quake players use and enjoy.

Oh, now he's pissed huh? Just because I dared disagree a little with him.
I know that veterans were newbies once and I know it's possible to learn, but not all newbies have the patience to sit through the first time shit until they learn the tricks
And to your end comment: Where in the nine Hells did I say that I wanted Quake to change?
I was just saying that it would be nice if Doom 3 would be DIFFERENT than Quake for a change - Quake IV can have all the old bugs for the Quakers to enjoy for all I care (frankly I don't care if the new Doom has them or not either).

[sarcasm]Now I'm sooo damn sorry I disagreed with you, I hope you can forgive me[/sarcasm]

DOOM3 need no strafe jum in SP game.as we know,the movement will be slow,if the player move too fast ,the feel of the game may be destroyed(also the framerate).

Originally posted by Xian

1. No it is not, the only reason id hasnt fixed this BUG is because of people such as yourself who have gotten used to cheating, and make a big fuss about it.

Cheating?! Are you kidding?! Cheating is something that gives you an unfair advantage with the help of an illegal script or hack enabling you to do things in the game that aren´t possible otherwise. And cheating is ass easy, lame shit like aimbots etc. Learning special movements isn´t easy, as you said by yourself. Why are we even arguing about that?

2. YOU CANNOT START AND PLAY AS A NEWBIE WHEN OTHERS ARE CHEATING and expect to have fun. Its not a documented feature, and therefore its not something you can easily learn. it started out as a bug and and an exploitation of the engine, it is STILL in no way a SKILL, if anything it takes away from having to use actual SKILLs such as strategy and careful manuvering, and it undermines other skills such as aim and hunting down enemies

IT IS NOT CHEATING, period. And I can tell you, when I started to play Q3A, I didn´t know how to strafejump (in Q2 times I only played single player). In early 2000 the servers where full of other newbies and we actually had a lot of fun online! We tumbled arround like drunkards :D But it didn´t stop there. We saw more skilled players moving around quicker, and we learned how to do it. The fun continued on a higher level, with even faster gameplay. That´s something I love about Q3.

Off course strategy and careful maneuvring are skills as well, but what´s the point with saying movement skills aren´t "actual skills"? That´s maybe your personal point of view, but you can´t be serious with saying this is a skill and this isn´t, just because you obviously prefer slow, Counterstrike-style movement or whatever.

3. NEWBIE FRIENDLY? Its called realistic pal. Especially if its a single player focused game such as doom, BUT EVEN IF IT WASNT there should be no stuff like this

We are talking about games. Games should be FUN in the first place, not absolutely realistic no matter what. And btw you never can make a game really realistic, it´s always a pseudo-realistic illusion of realism. Overdone realism destroys fun gameplay. I´m not saying games should be un-realistic, but realsim is just not the most important part.

And on the bugs issue... just like in real life, there is not everything planned and controlled by human intention. Bugs are the coincident aspect of the virtual reality ;) Strafe jumping, fast Q1 style weapon switch and other things started as a bug, but they actually enhanced the gameplay. Games like Unreal Tournament include special movements like dodging willingly, so why shouldn´t Doom3 have special movements that evolved "naturally"?

Originally posted by dsm

No, no, let Doom 3 be something different for a change - if it hasn't got any of the old bugs, then I'm sure it'll prove to be a different, but not necessarily a less entertaining, experience.

Would be OK for me if Doom3 doesn´t includes strafejumping - I just want it to be fast, remarkably faster than Counterstrike, and I want it to have more depth through the ability of special movements you can learn.
Doesn´t matter if it´s in singleplayer or multiplayer - in singleplayer trick jumps and the like could be used to reach secrets, for example (some custom Q1 levels make great use of that).

I don't know about strafejumping, but old Doom bugs rock. Note how thingies like straferunning and wallrunning weren't fixed in the sourceports - they are a part of the game. You can't think of them as bugs anymore - they're features. So is strafejumping, I guess.

*claps for tetzlaff*

If you want a realistic game...try co-ed naked football.
Leave he realism to real-life, othewrwise program actual(from real-life) physics(movement) algorithms, based on a healthy 20 yr-old male, into your source. Most would find these games waaaay to slow for fast paced action games like Q3 and the like. As comented on CS prev., the more realistic games get, the less fun they are to play...til some SOB gets a hair up his butt and makes cheating progs, as in CS. All this accomplishes is making games less fun for newbies, who have experience playing 1st person 3d shoooters but are getting used to new physics...

Slightly off topic
Lately, Ive heard rumors of Aimbots for RTCW. Ive been accused of using them. But, even with my 150-300 or more ping, Im just an experienced (hard-core) gamer.

Originally posted by help420me
the more realistic games get, the less fun they are to play

wow thats stupid... so why move on from doom to quake then? you wouldnt say that quake is LESS realistic than doom would you? i guess you DEFINITLEY not going to check out doom 3 then right? I mean, its almost gonna HAVE to be less fun that quake 3?

ack more sarcasm sorry...

the point is certain types of realism arent making games less fun. Im not defending realism, im defending IMMERSIVENESS. Theeres a big difference between getting mad at being able to hold a "plasma weapon" (even though plasma would melt the gun and its owner, and the level you were on, and a few levels next to it) and slamming your self into a wall to run extra fast. One is a cool part of the game, intended by the designers and totally forgivable, the other is just stupid

goodnight