Leap Gates (Beta testing) WAD

I've now reached the point where I really need to test these maps out, so I've uploaded a Beta version of this WAD. Don't worry you're not getting a half made product, it's probably about 97% completed. In order for it to be 100% I need some feedback of what you guys think and also (if possible) to see if co-op mode works ok (I dont have any friends that will play doom on co-op). Its a 5 map adventure/puzzle FPS and you will need GZDoom (with OpenGL enabled) and DoomII to run. there may be a few visual bugs here and there (I haven't found any yet but i guess it depends on which version of GZDoom you have).

here's the link:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=212AZVTK

please read the Wordpad document first to understand what the WAD is all about.
I literally have no idea if you guys will like it or hate it. Let me know what you think. Thanx in advance.

(edit)

here's some screenies:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/89/cgoldenlg0.png/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/11/cgoldenlg1.png/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/833/cgoldenlg2.png/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/339/cgoldenlg4.png/

It looks great I'll play it tomorrow and re-post

Graveyard looks great, though I would recommend removing the sprite gravestones and only using the subsector ones with shadows for consistency.

Love the screenies. Will have to check this out perhaps tomorrow!

iori said:

Graveyard looks great, though I would recommend removing the sprite gravestones and only using the subsector ones with shadows for consistency.

I'm contemplating on doing that.

This is a very impressive map set. I like the medieval theme, and the fact that it's kind of a puzzle. The music is epic--it's so eerie and intense! Great choice there...The battles can be rather brutal on UV, but you are reasonable when it comes to health, so that makes things somewhat pleasant.

My only suggestion at the moment (I've only gotten through maps 1 and 2) is to play with the lighting more. I think map 1 should be a night time map just like map 2 seems to be because the music and the gloomy, suspenseful environment (i.e. the graveyard) call for it. I would, if I were you, go for more dramatic, creepy lighting with more shadows and contrast. I think this could be a very good horror-esque WAD if you do this. Even without that, it's still quite a chilling experience.

Why do I have to use GZDoom?

Pics look nice, I'll check the maps out. I'd suggest using something other than megaupload to post your wad though, it's rather annoying. I prefer Mediafire and wadhost, and people suggest drdteam. Now to see if I have to update gzdoom ...

ArmouredBlood said:

Pics look nice, I'll check the maps out. I'd suggest using something other than megaupload to post your wad though, it's rather annoying. I prefer Mediafire and wadhost, and people suggest drdteam. Now to see if I have to update gzdoom ...

I'll look into that, maybe for the final release. Oh, and don't sweat what version GZDoom you're running; I've tested this WAD on one from a few years ago as well as the newest version (so I assume ANY one will work.)

Sigvatr said:

Why do I have to use GZDoom?

The WAD takes advantage of some bugs and techniques that are exclusive to GZDoom. Also, GZDOOM (in OpenGL mode) is more accurate, stable and faster than most other source ports, At one stage I tried to build for any kind of engine but because of how complicated these levels have become other source ports started to have problems that were unique to them, like Vanilla started to have missing sectors, doomsday ran way too slow (I don't have a slow PC) and had a few line-def problems (but also, that happens in stock doom levels). In the end it was just too much trouble unless I simplify my levels, which I'm not willing to do.

fullmetalvaran33 said:

This is a very impressive map set. I like the medieval theme, and the fact that it's kind of a puzzle. The music is epic--it's so eerie and intense! Great choice there...The battles can be rather brutal on UV, but you are reasonable when it comes to health, so that makes things somewhat pleasant.

My only suggestion at the moment (I've only gotten through maps 1 and 2) is to play with the lighting more. I think map 1 should be a night time map just like map 2 seems to be because the music and the gloomy, suspenseful environment (i.e. the graveyard) call for it. I would, if I were you, go for more dramatic, creepy lighting with more shadows and contrast. I think this could be a very good horror-esque WAD if you do this. Even without that, it's still quite a chilling experience.

Thanks for the feedback. Having map01 take place at night is a good idea. the reason why it didn't is because, at first, the game wasn't going to be as creepy (I added the music much later during it's development) But thanks to your suggestion I've come up with a solution.
Lighting is very difficult to do, the biggest problem I have is that it never looks the same on multiple PCs, I've adjusted the lighting to look just right on mine but it tends to be too dark on others. I probably should put this in the document: Set the light levels to GZDoom's default settings: Gamma:1.0 Brightness:0.0 Contrast:1.0, also, go to "Options>OpenGL Options>Preferences" and make sure that "sector light mode" is set to doom or dark and not bright or legacy. you might want to also check that "ambient light" hasn't been tampered with (should be set to 20)

I finished the maps and I have to admit this was the most bizarre thing I've every played (and I've played a ton of WADs). It was suspenseful, eerie, and often surprising. The changing environment from map to map kept things kind of surreal and unpredictable--I didn't know what the expect in the end. And the music remained great, which was a plus. Good work on this :)

fullmetalvaran33 said:

I finished the maps and I have to admit this was the most bizarre thing I've ever played (and I've played a ton of WADs).

Is that a good thing? maybe the strangeness will make more sense when I insert text in between stages.

I fell down the back of the rocks behind the first ammo box (the one in front of you at the start) and got stuck.

Also, there seems to be about 16mb of waste in LG.wad, a load of map lumps without headers. A couple in AV.wad as well, though only about 280kb worth.

DASI-I said:

The WAD takes advantage of some bugs [...] that are exclusive to GZDoom.

A risky thing given that bugs to tend to be fixed... And there are probably specs-compliant ways of achieving the same effect as whatever bug you are exploiting; which would be the safer, future-proof way of doing things.


Can you list those bugs you are taking advantage of, how you do so, and what are you achieving with them?

Gez said:

A risky thing given that bugs to tend to be fixed... And there are probably specs-compliant ways of achieving the same effect as whatever bug you are exploiting; which would be the safer, future-proof way of doing things.


Can you list those bugs you are taking advantage of, how you do so, and what are you achieving with them?

Well, its not really a bug, it's more like a quirk: When you lower a sector inside a bigger sector with no wall textures, it disappears. Whereas , in normal doom, it's still visible with some bleeding where the walls are), I use this technique for effects like standing waist deep in water, or floors that you can fall through. I also use it to give light levels that are different on floors from ceilings even though they're right above each other (same sector)

Vermil said:

I fell down the back of the rocks behind the first ammo box (the one in front of you at the start) and got stuck.

Also, there seems to be about 16mb of waste in LG.wad, a load of map lumps without headers. A couple in AV.wad as well, though only about 280kb worth.

Thats the kind of thing I need people telling me about. I'll fix it. I was unaware of map lumps without headers, not sure how to delete them. But as for the textures: this is just a beta version of LeapGates; I havnt gotten around to figuring out how to delete unused textures, what programs do you use?

Haven't played it that much; got stuck on Map03 in the tech base area.

Some of the level design is very creative and original even. Though a little more lighting variation (currently there is very little light variation) would do wonders for the atmosphere.

Map01 is much harder than Map02 though, mainly because the player can have the chainsaw for Map02, making plowing through the Demons and Pain Elementals on that map very easy; I was able to complete near the entire map with just the Chainsaw.

From Map01 and 02, I can see why they might be causing alot of slowdown; it's because you've filled in the void with uneeded sectors, rather than left them as void.

This can mean an engine might end up trying to render the whole map at once (let's say it will render until it hit's a 1 sided line).

DASI-I said:

Well, its not really a bug, it's more like a quirk: When you lower a sector inside a bigger sector with no wall textures, it disappears. Whereas , in normal doom, it's still visible with some bleeding where the walls are), I use this technique for effects like standing waist deep in water, or floors that you can fall through. I also use it to give light levels that are different on floors from ceilings even though they're right above each other (same sector)

Which other ports have you used to compare? Because what you describe is a known effect of vanilla and it has been used extensively, including in the id-published TNT IWAD (see MAP02).

Unless you meant lowering sectors during the game? I'll admit I haven't tried that, but the same things causing the same effects, I'd think it'd work in any self-respecting port.

Vermil said:

Haven't played it that much; got stuck on Map03 in the tech base area.

Some of the level design is very creative and original even. Though a little more lighting variation (currently there is very little light variation) would do wonders for the atmosphere.

Check that your light levels are set to GZDoom's default settings: Gamma:1.0 Brightness:0.0 Contrast:1.0
Make sure that "sector light mode" is set to doom or dark and not bright or legacy. Also, check that "ambient light" isnt over 20

(edit)

Oh wait a sec, each version of GZdoom seems to effect the light levels differently. darn it! now I have to make my maps darker! Not long ago I had to make them lighter because it was too dark at first. :( Can't these source ports be consistent?

Vermil said:

From Map01 and 02, I can see why they might be causing alot of slowdown; it's because you've filled in the void with uneeded sectors, rather than left them as void.

This can mean an engine might end up trying to render the whole map at once (let's say it will render until it hit's a 1 sided line).

Yip, when I started working on map01 I didn't know that middle textures could be used on single sided linedefs. Yea, I know, sounds idiotic, but I literally did not know a thing about mapping for doom back then, it's such a different system than building a polygon based map for games like quake and unreal. As you can see, all maps from map03 onward are done properly. I've already started replacing Lower and higher textures with middle textures, we'll be rid of those sectors in no time

Also, watch those DB 3d mode starts left on some of the maps; some ports will crash if they encounter an unknown thing on a map.

Gez said:

Which other ports have you used to compare? Because what you describe is a known effect of vanilla and it has been used extensively, including in the id-published TNT IWAD (see MAP02).

Unless you meant lowering sectors during the game? I'll admit I haven't tried that, but the same things causing the same effects, I'd think it'd work in any self-respecting port.

I wish that was true. I've tested this on Boom, PRBoom, ZDoom, Doom95, Chocolate Doom, Vanilla (a whole bunch of software rendered only ports), Doomsday/JDoom and GZDoom, and I think I've also tried Vavoom.
Here's the results of this technique being executed from these ports (note: source ports that gave identical results are represented by 1 image)
http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/4666/doublesectorcomparisons.jpg

Now there is a way to get this to work on vanilla: most software rendered ports bleed from the top sector (some bleed from the bottom like PRBoom does) if the bottom sector is low enough then it wont be seen from the top. This is probably how TNT did it (But I'm not sure, I haven't played TNT all the way through)

The only port that did work (other than gzdoom) was doomsday, but the reason why I don't use doomsday is because it runs much slower than any other source port out there, and because my maps have a lot of detail to them it runs so slow its unplayable. unless you have a fast PC, there's no guarantee that it will run well because I havnt tested the whole WAD in Doomsday.

DASI-I said:

Is that a good thing? maybe the strangeness will make more sense when I insert text in between stages.

I see the strangeness as a good thing. Personally, I like it without text inbetween the maps. I like surreal/weird stuff :)

DASI-I said:

I wish that was true. I've tested this on Boom, PRBoom, ZDoom, Doom95, Chocolate Doom, Vanilla (a whole bunch of software rendered only ports), Doomsday/JDoom and GZDoom, and I think I've also tried Vavoom.
Here's the results of this technique being executed from these ports (note: source ports that gave identical results are represented by 1 image)
http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/4666/doublesectorcomparisons.jpg

Now there is a way to get this to work on vanilla: most software rendered ports bleed from the top sector (some bleed from the bottom like PRBoom does) if the bottom sector is low enough then it wont be seen from the top. This is probably how TNT did it (But I'm not sure, I haven't played TNT all the way through)

The only port that did work (other than gzdoom) was doomsday, but the reason why I don't use doomsday is because it runs much slower than any other source port out there, and because my maps have a lot of detail to them it runs so slow its unplayable. unless you have a fast PC, there's no guarantee that it will run well because I havnt tested the whole WAD in Doomsday.

What exactly are you doing with this? If you want deep water, vanilla can do that by making both sides of a sector's lines have the same sector number. prboom can do it with the linedef action 'create fake floors/ceilings' and tagging that to a dummy sector. I believe there's a similar action in zdoom and doomsday.

ArmouredBlood said:

What exactly are you doing with this? If you want deep water, vanilla can do that by making both sides of a sector's lines have the same sector number. prboom can do it with the linedef action 'create fake floors/ceilings' and tagging that to a dummy sector. I believe there's a similar action in zdoom and doomsday.

I haven't the foggiest how to do that! I'm sure it would work, but I'm so new at this whole sector\linedef thingy, you know (I'm used to polygons). I didn't even understand half the stuff you telling me. So...yea, instead; this is the technique i chose to use.

Can you upload your comparison example wad somewhere? I'm wondering why it doesn't work in software. It should. (Again, see TNT MAP02 if you have it.)

Gez said:

Can you upload your comparison example wad somewhere? I'm wondering why it doesn't work in software. It should. (Again, see TNT MAP02 if you have it.)

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=4MOUR8VE

If you find a source port that hides these floors in software mode let me know, I'd be interested in seeing my maps work in vanilla doom. You know; I'm starting to think you guys don't like using GZDoom. I took a look at MAP02 in TNT, I don't see anything that resembles what I'm talking about except for a few invisible walls, is this what you're talking about?

edit:
I see there is a lake with water that goes waist deep, But it's a totally different technique. It won't be enough for the stuff I need it to do, my technique does more than just deep water or trap floors, it also helps me do advanced light levels: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=48KFD927

fullmetalvaran33 said:

I see the strangeness as a good thing. Personally, I like it without text inbetween the maps. I like surreal/weird stuff :)

Oh good, Thats a load off my mind

iori said:

Graveyard looks great, though I would recommend removing the sprite gravestones and only using the subsector ones with shadows for consistency.

I second this.

I found the some of the enemy projectiles to be too slow, especially the Undead warriors. If this is a deliberate to make the game less hectic/action heavy then ignore my previous statement. The green axe projectiles would also look nicer with frames for various angles.

I think the gargoyles could either use a dead body or to have an extra frame or two on the death animation.

All the weapons have their original pickup text.

With the plasma gun replacement it seems strange that the ammo is blue but the projectile is red.

I really liked the hell knight/teleport/shock part, very nice.

The pain elemental replacement has the same weakness as the original PEs, if you get close they can't spawn any gargoyles and are very easy to kill. How about a melee attack or even a melee attack + a bit of knockback?

They egyptian wall texture looks out of place in the dining room.

I really like a lot of your details, the embers/lava in the fireplace in the dining hall on map02 are nice. The books are also very nice as was the house a top the mountain/hill.

I think the tall, border walls on the mountain area near the beginning of map02 need more variation, at the moment it's all uniform and looks artificial.

The map before the hedge maze is awesome. I really like that you added shadows in the actual maze.

The keys still have the default skull key hud icon. You could possibly use recolored Wolf3D key icons?

The bearskin in the bedroom is another nice touch.

When you get teleported out of the castle courtyard and try to go right into the woods/whatever it no longer says 'GO BACK'

---
I just got past the red teleport path puzzle and it's time for bed. So far I've enjoyed this wad and am really digging the puzzling action, it's rewarding when you figure out where to go next and get more eyecandy. So far it's not overly hard action wise (I died a few times on the weredragon part before I realized there were invisible ettins) or puzzle wise but that's good, it makes it fun. That being said I could see them getting annoying (the blue switch/lower the door puzzle annoyed me for a few seconds but it didn't take too long to get right) but honestly I think you've got it sussed and it'll be fine. I look forward to finishing this wad - keep up the good work.

xvertigox said:

All the weapons have their original pickup text.

How does one change the text?

xvertigox said:

With the plasma gun replacement it seems strange that the ammo is blue but the projectile is red.

No matter what sprite I used, it always looked like ammo for the Skull Staff (rocket launcher) rather than ammo used in the Phoenix Rod. as time went by I kinda ignored this problem and kept it blue to be a contrast to the Skull ammo. Technically, Blue didn't matter because one could just simply say that the Phoenix Rod converted this energy into red energy just like the BFG fires green energy using this very same ammo. But now that you've mentioned it in this forum I, all of a sudden, felt like I needed to change it to red. It took me a while but I finally found the perfect sprite to use as ammo for the Phoenix Rod, though it took a lot of modifying.

xvertigox said:

The egyptian wall texture looks out of place in the dining room.

I justified this by saying that the master of the castle was a conqueror or a tradesman, but I guess a lot of people don't know that; so I changed it. thanks for pointing that out.

xvertigox said:

I think the tall, border walls on the mountain area near the beginning of map02 need more variation, at the moment it's all uniform and looks artificial.

That's the best I can do. There's already so much stuff crammed into that valley. I had to delete a lot of sectors because it ran too slow on an average PC. It would've looked better if there was a way to stretch the textures so that you don't get that tiled look.

xvertigox said:

The keys still have the default skull key hud icon. You could possibly use recolored Wolf3D key icons?

I'll be honest: I've never noticed this before because I always use GZDoom's alternative hud. I'll see if I can fix this.

xvertigox said:

When you get teleported out of the castle courtyard and try to go right into the woods/whatever it no longer says 'GO BACK'

This has now been corrected.

I appreciate the feedback, the WAD is now better thanx to people like you ^_^

I'm now rapping up this project and soon everyone will be able to download this 1.0 version of Leap Gates. So if there's anything you guys want to add to this forum; NOW IS THE TIME! I will probably be done with this in a week. Thanks for all the contributions, I've made a load of changes since the beta version.