The DWmegawad Club plays: Super Mayhem 17

[TheOrganGrinder]

MAP06: Airship of Doom

 

So the basic layout of this one consists of the airship deck and a succession of below-decks spaces, the first two of which (reached via the blue and red telepipes) use mechanical wall textures to call to suggest the engines that turn the great sets of rotors above.  I don't know quite why you'd lay out an engine room like that, but whether it's Doom or Super Mario, when have videogame spaces ever made that much sense?  The whole procession is somewhat linear and I'll echo @rehelekretep's sentiment that the lack of re-use of the airship deck is a missed opportunity; every time I cam back from below decks I was expecting it to have been repopulated and that just didn't happen.  Other than that I can't really complain about this one, and I think I'm started to get into the warped aesthetic that the levels present and the end-of-episode text screen plays with.

[NaZa]

MAP04: Marina Moonlight (Pinchy)

 

GENERAL THOUGHTS

Wow, we've had Shroom Stronghold, All Along (...) and Sillydust Sanctuary. Now it's Marina Moonlight. I can only assume it was some kind of a mutual thing, as I see the same wordplay in at least 5 more maps. It surprisingly gives the set a more goofy tone in its own way, too. Anyway, this map seems pretty big at the start, with loads of monsters everywhere, but as you progress you kinda get to understand it isn't as big as you thought. Instead, to me it has a similar problem like Sillydust Sanctuary, in that it just seems small. The map itself is in a new setting, unlike anything so far in the WAD, with Pinchy predominantly using water and creating a nice little marina setting. Everything is nicely marked and you shouldn't get lost anywhere in the map. I especially liked the whales that swam up near the end of the level, that bit was cool! Maybe getting the not-so-secret megaarmor is a bit more difficult than it seems at first, and the fortress imps are pretty difficult to pick off. Also, the end spider mastermind is... there.

 

Also this is my first proper max :P and, surprisingly, in both of my runs, I didn't die.

 

CONTINUOUS RUN

~~~~~~~~~~~~

KILLS: 144/144 (142/142)
ITEMS: 4/4

SECRETS: 1/1

TIME: 11:02

 

What a map this was! The beginning was definitely difficult and I had no choice but to kill the chaingunners and other hitscanners first - then it was a free-for-all. Definitely the arch-vile didn't do me any favours as I mistakenly pushed it off its column and it started reviving zombiemen and I think I got burnt but I managed. The cave ship area is pretty insane with all the monsters, but it was not difficult due to enough space available throughout the map to kill those pesky revenants that eventually appear. I quite liked the turret use of arachnotrons in this map - Pinchy made sure that wherever you are, at least one will be able to shoot at you. I find the last trap (with the knights and a vile) a bit anticlimactic, but I think the spider manages to actually feel lazy. I expected some teleporting viles maybe, due to the loads of corpses around - it would literally be mayhem.

Ammo wise, I never ran out; the map was pretty generous with supplies, even giving a first plasma gun. I had 400 bullets and 100 shells at one point. Health was fair too. Overall, not too difficult of a map.

 

PISTOL START

~~~~~~~~~

KILLS: 140/142

ITEMS: 4/4

SECRETS: 1/1

TIME: 10:56

 

Again, a bit faster than continuous. Due to having less firepower at the start, I provoked infighting wherever I could (even going in the cave really soon) and it worked out. Unfortunately, two cacodemons (did a monster) never woke up, so they didn't teleport and I didn't get 100% kills unlike my continuous run. Making a dash for the megaarmor and killing the chaingunners as quickly as possibly is key, because otherwise one can end up having more holes than cheese; the start is way, way more difficult. I think there's actually a surplus of ammo playing from a pistol start (I never even hit the red zone with my bullets/shells), but it's all in good measure. I thought that the hell knights across the map were mostly there to annoy you, but they don't manage that well - I found it a bit boring to kill them after the main assault. With less rockets, clearing the teleported arachnotrons after getting the key was a bit more difficult, because I had to save some for revenants and I had to save plasma for the spider and the vile, so I was relying more on the shotgun and chaingun to finish the last demons off.

[Catpho]

MAP06 - “Airship of Doom” by Gothic

This map had such a cool premise! When the music started, i was expecting something grand and awesome, which was delivered when i was running around on the airship deck, and good looking airship blades! It went downhill from there, however, it devolved into corridors and straightforward shotgun-duck-shotgun gameplay, and it seems to not take advantage of its concept. I think the salt im having comes from the fact that airship levels in smb3 tend to be every climatic, but this one left something to be desired :/

Its not bad, just a "what could have been"

Bright side: text screen was funny XD

Some screenies:

Also the way mayhem17 screws up the pallet makes for AncientStartan.wad:

[NuMetalManiak]

MAP06 Airship of Doom

 

You have to get a breather map in after that nonsense was over, but then you wonder, why so glum, game? Everything so far has been chaotic, going through the pleasant fields of Shroob Stronghold, discovering there is lava in Bowser Tower (I mean, duh), then it's getting darker in Sillydust Sanctuary. While the moonlight of the marina was captivating, it was quite guarded, before the evilness that followed. Now Green Plumber (not marine this time, so fuck you) has riding out the storm, only to be met with the horns of evil, both audibly and visually, on an airship. What's the deal with demonic things and their fetishes for ships anyways? Don't these guys use magical teleport closets instead? So many troops, probably with so many names, all running this airship. You start to wonder, what happens if I murder the ENTIRE crew of the airship? Will it all go down due to lack of man, excuse me, demonpower?

 

No matter, here's a breather map, hitscanners first, then take out the rest while scrounging for the supplies as necessary. It's another hub map, done so the bowels of the airship can explored. The textures in the secret sector sure fooled me, they looked like the missing texture thing! As banal as its setting is, not a whole lot of hardships were really encountered. The next segment may prove to be a hell of a lot different.

[Catpho]

1 hour ago, NaZa said:

in that it just seems small.

I think its related to the limitation theme of this project (but what size limitation i dont remember, it was there so maps wont be too gigantic, for a change). Every mayhem has a limitation gimmick :P

[Tristan]

2 minutes ago, Catpho said:

but what size limitation i dont remember

 

5120x3840

[NaZa]

Just now, Catpho said:

I think its related to the limitation theme of this project (but what size limitation i dont remember, it was there so maps wont be too gigantic, for a change). Every mayhem has a limitation gimmick :P

I know. I'm simply bringing it up because the other two maps (Dragonfly's at least - rf''s might be a bit larger) seemed larger than they are. That's why I say that.

 

Anyway, last catch-up and write-up until Monday.

 

MAP05: Painfully and Elitely Rustled (NuMetalManiak)

 

GENERAL THOUGHTS

First map that's not alliteration-based. Anyway, the map takes place in a bit more of a psychedelic location rather than a concrete one - it starts off in a huge stone room and ultimately, due to ramparts, looks like a normal fortress; however, the red door and the yellow door paint a different picture - the red door area is very gray-boxy and doesn't look like a fortress (except if one imagines that it's a storage room of some kind), and the yellow door area appears to take place in a very unsettling blue-stoned outdoor with lava around, implying a volcanic surrounding. This got me all Hereticish and I already thought that its setting is similar to Ramparts of Perdition, a fortress near a volcanic surrounding. Anyway, enough rambling about an abstract thing (who can really pinpoint the environment a Doom map is taking place in). The design was a central hub, with four areas in four major directions. I'd say that the first room was a bit lacking for me, there wasn't anything special at all. Sure, the fight was good, but the room itself was really bland. The other areas were better, but it's obvious not much time was spent (if any at all) on detailing the first area. Too bad, because first impressions.

 

CONTINUOUS RUN

~~~~~~~~~~~~

KILLS: 51/51

ITEMS: 28/28

SECRETS: 0/0

TIME: 5:15

 

Words cannot express how many times I've died on the Archvile part due to me getting all mixed up in my weapon selection. Not good at all. Anyway, the beginning of the map was really easy with carryovers; the first trap was almost a pushover. The rest wasn't very difficult either, in fact I've managed to kill the cyberdemon with the BFG before he teleported away. That means that the final battle was much easier than anticipated and it can be a bit anticlimactic if you are playing blind and happen to kill the Cybie early. It also makes you much more prepared for the archviles, which is always good. All in all, plays well continuously, but BFG'ing the Cybie can really break the flow of the map.

 

PISTOL START

~~~~~~~~~

KILLS: 52/52 (51/51)

ITEMS: 28/28

SECRETS: 0/0

TIME: 5:10

 

Oh yes. This map plays much more differently on pistol start, and it's apparent that was the intended way. The first trap is cheesable though as you have enough space to hide from the Mancs while the pinkies are just not able to corner you. The yellow door is arguably more difficult as you don't have quite the sufficient weaponry and are forced to use plasma/RL as opposed to the BFG against the viles, and obviously you can't kill the Cybie so you have a hell of a final showdown with the Chaingunners appearing as well creating an incredibly difficult setpiece. Still, it's a very fun map either way, its health/ammo placement was really solid.

[cannonball]

MAP06 - “Airship of Doom” by Gothic

The start is really cool, it is a shame that the map descends into a rather dull crawl on the lower decks. There really isn't much to say beyond this. the exit room is significantly more viloent than the rest of the map with a lot of mid tier monsters and not a lot of usable space to move around in.

[Poncho]

So, I'll be doing a continuous run of this on UV (as usual). If you don't like it... well, not much you can do about it. Mwahahaha...

 

Map01: Shroom Stronghold

A nice level to set the tone for the rest of the WAD. It's a smallish level, but isn't that short. The enemy placement is very neat and never actually frustrated me. Not even the Arch-Viles bugged me. It would've been better if I'd found the secrets during the actual combat or inter-combat rather than after killing everything.

 

Map02: All Along the Bowser Tower

Eh, wasn't too fond of this one. The layout is a little confusing (I think someone of this thread said the level is straightforward, but personally I beg to differ). The Revenant and Mancubus placement can feel annoying at times, too. The secret is nicely placed, I suppose. Ammo is handed out nicely too.

 

Map03: Sillydust Sanctuary

A lower bodycount, but arguably more dangerous than the previous levels. I like the intensity of the close-quarters combat that makes up a lot of the level's gameplay. Thus, good enemy placement. The teleport traps are sort of predictable, but still deadly in their own right. If there's one thing I'll criticise, the secret to the Megasphere (I think it's the MSphere, anyway) I found to be super tough to find. I found the secret armour fine, but the MSphere was tough. Got a nasty trap to accompany it, as well. Better than 02.

 

Will continue later.

[tmorrow]

map07: groovy hills, by Walter Confetti
zdoom2.8.1, uvmax, pistol start, no saves, first time played

Walter Confetti gives us all we could want in a map, groovy hills, logs floating in the river and a big ass cavern with side caves to explore. Pro tip for the caverns, don't fall into any of the pits, it's the pits! While the scenery outside is quite pretty you'll need to spend most of your time in the cave system, troglodyte that you are.

Most of the fights are with low tier monsters and aren't that threatening although 3 pain elementals show up halfway through and at the end you get to confront cybie who's got the height advantage on you this time. You are given a bfg though, so things aren't too bad. "Put that rocket launcher down cybie, back away and put your hands in the air!". Damn, that never works with cybies.

 

The secret hunt is fun and worthwhile, a couple of berserk packs, backpack and a megasphere to be had. The megasphere secret is fatal if you miss! Also keep a lookout for rings of grass that are used to provide the chainsaw, super shotgun and combat armor.
 

Edited April 7, 2018 by tmorrow : more minor corrections

[Magnusblitz]

MAP06: Airship of Doom

100% kills, 0/1 secret

 

I absolutely adore the opening here, both the cool tricks used for the rotors and the lightning storm, as well as the layout with being able to use the cubes for cover and play hide-and-seek for a bit. I agree with the consensus that the rest of the map is rather forgettable though, though the sudden tick in baddie threat in the last room might jolt some folks.

[Demon of the Well]

I've been playing along for this one as well, having heard good things.

 

Disclaimer: I don't care about the Super Mario universe, for the most part, and I find its relentlessly bright/cheery style difficult to stomach for any extended period of time, even (perhaps especially?) in the context of Doom, a world of course far more familiar to me. I guess I say this primarily to frame myself as something of a more skeptical audience member in this case, all else being equal. As for my familiarity with the aforesaid Mario franchise, I don't think I've ever played a Mario title more recent than Super Mario 3 on the NES, though of course you'd have to be living under a rock (or even down an old well) on the moon to not have had at least some general exposure to the many big titles from the franchise released in all the years since. Of those few Mario games I have played, then, I reckon the one I always liked the most was Super Mario 2, which as most folks know was not really intended to be a Mario game in the first place, ironically enough.

 

Anyway! Without further ado....

 

Map 01 -- 'Shroom Stronghold - 106% Kills / 100% Secrets - FDA (skill 4)

This is a broadly traditional m01-style map, though it's meatier in scope than the norm. Laid out as a classic hub/spoke setup with a selection of self-contained side areas branching off of a sunny central yard/garden, the level is fairly brisk in pace with lots of basic mooks to mow down with the conventional pistol/shotgun/chaingun opening suite, eventually transitioning to the SSG later on after it becomes apparent that the level is a little lengthier than one might initially expect. The rocket launcher also shows up near the end, though I never really felt that "time to put this to good use" moment (presumably it's primarily intended to fight the two arch-viles in the last main encounter), sticking with the SSG and some rather poorly-executed fisticuffs instead. This very conventional balance/pacing keeps things easygoing at all times, so the pitch of the action feels very much like the traditional 'tutorial map' fare typical of m01s, regardless of the early use of bigger weapons and badder baddies, presumably just the intention.

 

I found the actual level progression to be the most unusual aspect of the design (took me a minute or two of addlebrained wandering to wrap my head around it, seems like), possessing an odd little extra phase to it beyond what one often expects in an early hub/spoke map of this type--i. e. the typical "get two keys from two side areas and then exit" trope is here modified to include a couple of extra visits to the hub in order to use the keys to (remotely) open the exit. I reckon this could be fairly (if uncharitably) interpreted as being unnecessary padding, though I think the map mostly justifies this extra legwork well enough by dint of using it as an excuse to have an extra couple of fights in the hub, reuse of battle space being one of those things that usually works as well in an m01 context as in an m29 context.

 

It only became evident to me in hindsight after playing some of the following maps, but this is also one of the more visually pleasant levels in the set so far, comparatively speaking. The Mario texture assets (and props and such) are generally wildly bright and colorful and....I'm going to say "visually hyperactive" in tone, which some of the maps have doubled down on to an exhausting extent (IMO), but this one is nicely balanced, pairing the bright earth/garden/water stuff with some more muted cobblestone and powder-blue bricks and such. Also key to its success in this regard, I think, is that Dragonfly has handled the lighting as though it's an aesthetically 'normal' Doom map, with the resulting directional shadows and nice range of bright/neutral/dim/actually dark scenes serving the depth and tone of the overall presentation well, and helping to offset the prevalent squareness/blockyness of the shapes (though in fairness it seems likely that the textures naturally lend themselves to said shapes, considering the source material). Though it may not have been obvious to me at the time, in this sense I reckon the level was actually pretty valuable as an intro to the general look of the world of Super Mayhem17 for me, whereas some of its cohorts might have made a much more, uh.....adversarial first impression.

 

Map 02 -- All Along the Bowser Tower - 100% Kills / 100% Secrets - FDA

Broadly similar to m01 before it in tone and in virtues, this is a light hike around a sunny trail, up through an old stone fort and then looping around to one of those interminable pipe-junctions which seem to mine every mile of Marioland's underskin. Smaller now, and quite short, but with more spacious design and with more non-right angles and other more natural shapes than seen in m01, progression here is clearer, being essentially a softly-guided tour, always with visual cues of one sort or another to lead you around, and a theme of  very light/casual platforming and climbing to fill out the space in the way the rather sparse smattering of monsters cannot. Attention to lighting is again tasteful, painting mostly in broad strikes of sunshine and mild shadow where appropriate, with a nice subtle touch of detail or two for those who care to look, ala the scree of fluffy clouds drifting past the windows of the upper fort chamber on a breeze. The abiding impression here is certainly one of 'pleasantness', still in step with the 'classic' early-game feel of these opening maps.

 

Not a whole lot more to say here....as regards my somewhat 'conflicted' stance concerning the mapset's visual theme, I reckon that if this had used stock Doom textures but otherwise been exactly the same map I might be lightly complaining here about the map perhaps being a little too 'pleasant' on the action side than I might normally wish, but since I was still adjusting to my new surroundings at this point I think I was glad for the gentle hand here, sort of a check on my bumbling and still in-process 'attitudinal adjustment' (my mishandling of those 3 revenants hurts me to watch). A couple of things I did notice here more than in m01: for one, the projectile from the rocket launcher seemed slower and thus 'off' to me here, though the more I've played the more I've become convinced that this is purely a trick of the eye, the new Bullet Bill rocket sprite looking slower/ungainlier in the air than the game object actually is. More concerning is that I've found monster projectiles (especially the changed imp fireballs) legitimately more difficult to spot/keep track of against many of the bright/pastel textures, something I've still yet to fully adjust to at my current point in the playthrough.

 

Map 03 -- Sillydust Sanctuary - 107% Kills / 50% Secrets - FDA

A shady little shoebox of a map, this is the smallest level yet, but not without its nuances. While the action here still firmly fits the 'classic early-game' mold established by the first two levels, there's perhaps a little bit more of a subtle edge to proceedings in that the ammo/healing margins vs. the nature of the opposition are significantly tighter than before. Monsters are few in number and don't take up a lot of space or exert a particularly pronounced degree of pressure even considering how small the playspaces are, but an early brace of hitscanners rapidly transitions towards mostly Doom II monsters after the first couple of minutes, meaning that mistakes can leave you crippled and that cavalier expenditure of ammo can leave you with limited options as things reach a head in the main shrine.  My play was not bad enough here to doom me (with the generous/somewhat easy 'mega shroom' secret providing a mile-thick layer of incompetency-insulation to boot), by any means, but at this point I started to take things a little more seriously, perhaps just in time.

 

For being such a tiny map, it's unusual that the progression is as flexible as it is. The sanctuary and the grounds surrounding it are largely separate spaces in gameplay terms (i.e. you don't see much exchange of fire between the two areas, even though there seem to be a lot of windows in addition to the weird checkerboard veranda), meaning you don't necessarily have to micromanage what's going on inside while you're outside, allowing potential for a bit of a mini-mob to eventually develop in there. The two ways of reaching the yellow key's pipe are also an odd little wrinkle, making the red key technically optional and further allowing you to put off fighting the monsters inside until the end, when you must eventually return to access the exit pipe. Incidentally, the mechanism for opening the exit makes very little sense to me as far as in-world 'logic' goes....must be a Mario Thing?

[Cynical]

23 minutes ago, Demon of the Well said:

Of those few Mario games I have played, then, I reckon the one I always liked the most was Super Mario 2, which as most folks know was not really intended to be a Mario game in the first place, ironically enough.

This actually isn't true!  While it is true that the Japanese version of that game wasn't a part of the Mario franchise, it was originally designed to be the second Mario game; it turned into Doki Doki Panic fairly late in development, when the Japanese version of SMB 2 got far enough along that it became clear that it would be SMB 2.

 

It's one of those rare cases where the American and Japanese versions of a game differ greatly, but the American version is the one that was actually intended (other cases include much of the Resident Evil series, Devil May Cry 3, and The Evil Within).

[Demon of the Well]

5 minutes ago, Cynical said:

This actually isn't true!  While it is true that the Japanese version of that game wasn't a part of the Mario franchise, it was originally designed to be the second Mario game; it turned into Doki Doki Panic fairly late in development, when the Japanese version of SMB 2 got far enough along that it became clear that it would be SMB 2.

News to me, I think I had always tended to hear it the other way around (i.e. that the game became SMB 2 in the west because it was viewed as being too culturally specific and thus difficult to market to a western audience), but of course as aforesaid you could fill several libraries with the stuff about Super Mario Bros. that I don't know.

 

(after the NES period, I was a Genesis kid. Alms for the poor, alms for the poor...?)

[Cynical]

3 minutes ago, Demon of the Well said:

(after the NES period, I was a Genesis kid. Alms for the poor, alms for the poor...?)

Bloodlines was the best 16 bit Castlevania that was released in the west, you're not that poor ;-)

[Crusader No Regret]

Up until this topic went up, I presumed that Mayhem 17 was some kind of slaughter mapset.  Will give the maps a try, maybe I'll even finish some of them.  If I'm feeling hardcore enough, may even try to go with one midpoint save per map to simulate a Mario level but most likely will save as much as I please.  HMP all the way unless something really feels too easy.

 

Map 1: completed without saves  1/2 secrets 158/112 health/armor

  A Dragonfly map?  I enjoyed visiting df-Nightlife so my expectations may be inflated.  Textures were instantly recognizable as a mix of Mario World and Mario 3 assets (from All-stars rather than the NES game).  I died a few times before finding health or armor but once I survived the first brawl, managed to pull through to the end.  I played clumsily throughout; my health went up and down like a seesaw.  Enough variety in the encounters: first one is cheeseable by rushing to the upper area where you start and baiting infights but later ones don't have such easy outs.  Didn't find the mega mushroom secret until after killing everything and wandering around looking for secrets.

 

Map 2; DNF

  Opening area reminds me a lot of Mushroom Hill from Sonic and Knuckles and a Sonic Doom project that seems to have disappeared without ever being completed.  I didn't get very far on my two or three tries, dying around where the SSG is given.  Ammo is tight early on, which I solve by baiting a cacodemon into killing a bunch of imps for me.  May or may not go back and try to finish.

[dobu gabu maru]

1 hour ago, Demon of the Well said:

Disclaimer: I don't care about the Super Mario universe, for the most part, and I find its relentlessly bright/cheery style difficult to stomach for any extended period of time [...]

 

God damn I think this is the most depressing thing I've ever read from you. Mario's happy-go-lucky is so delightfully smile-inducing that you have to have a heart of ice to resist it. And yeah, Cynical's right on the money about SMB2—the narrative was always the other way around until this info was unearthed recently.

 

48 minutes ago, Cynical said:

Bloodlines was the best 16 bit Castlevania that was released in the west, you're not that poor ;-)

 

That's not how you spell "Dracula X" ;)

 

MAP06: Pretty nifty map here—the atmosphere carries it a long way. This map is good at showcasing two things: 1) How dangerous you can make a level simlply due to perched enemies, and 2) How awesome the rocket launcher and plasma gun are by making you play a level where you can't have them. The "boss room" in particular is a nasty little skirmish if you wake the AV up, making me long desperately for just 5 rockets so I could subdue the obnoxious bone bozos on the perimeter of the room. I wasn't too impressed by the other non-deck floors of the airship, but the map had a really unique vibe going for it, which let me to overlook any misgivings regarding the gameplay. Great propeller blade trickery too; my hat goes off to you, Gothic.

 

MAP07: Ah, walter walter walter... why not make the vines steps with fake floors? Why make it look like the player can jump to the water at the southwest part of the map? Why place the RK switch a stone's throw away from the door it opens? Why hide the SSG when you make the player fight not one, not two, but three pain elementals if they happen to stumble upon the red key? Why use inescapable pits? And most importantly, why not make the textures inside the dark door the BLACK texture? You did it for the little brick house! I KNOW YOU KNOW HOW TO USE THAT TEXTURE!

 

Qualms aside, the map isn't really that irritating—it's cool that the player gets to use the chainsaw so much, since everyone here is a low tier grunt. I also like going into the basement of that little brick house (gave me a Zelda 2 vibe there) and that the cyberdemon is little more than a congratulatory free kill. Quirky little escapade that wouldn't be hurt by some retooling.

[Cynical]

I'm one of those rare weirdos who really loves Dracula X (although the Japanese version, where Richter and Death actually bleed is much better than the version where they just leak a suspicious white substance!), and I even prefer it over Rondo, but let's be real here, there's too much jank like the Key's item crash or Dullahan being ruined with a room that's too large for him or the potentially immortal red skeletons in stage 5' thanks to the invincibility potion glitch for the game to match up to Bloodlines, which, aside from a sort of dull third stage and underwhelming final stage, is an absolute masterpiece.

 

(Neither are as good as Akumajo Dracula X68000, but that didn't make it to the US until the 32 bit generation.)

[Demon of the Well]

Map 04 -- Marina Moonlight - 98% Kills / 100% Secrets - FDA

Enjoyed this one, it had an extra little bit of kick to it I found more immediately engaging than the light/classic action from the first three maps. Also aesthetically quite pleasant, in its way, though that seems a little odd to say as it is rather janky in some aspects, especially the heavy use of the very flat/lo-fi 'brown pixels on a solid tan saffron background' earth texture for so much of the environment, which could be argued as looking crude or just as easily seen as the designer really embracing the vintage console video-gamey nature of the resources, versus the more Doom-y or 'realistic' look of previous maps. Pinchy has generally been pretty comfortable adopting a wide range of new assets on the fly in his mapping career, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised he'd be able to make the most of these SMB textures, though it's really a lot of concourse stuff that's pulling the heavy weight, perhaps--mood lighting, a soothing BGM track, a black sky (albeit with a monstrously oversized knot of snowcapped cartoon trees at one point), that sort of thing. Mood is really what it comes down to, I think--while this is certainly a far cry from being grimdark, and has its share of whimsical touches (i.e. the big purple whales which surface with reinforcements on their backs), overall it's a lot more somber and less lipsplittingly Salad Days in tone than many of its set cohorts, and thus more my speed.

 

It's fun, too, of course, more to the point! Fielding the highest monstercount to this point by far but also a very quick progression focused into a play area no larger than map 03's, this is the first time in the set where crossfires and overlapping fields of fire come into play, with a wide variety of stationed artillery manning the main marina at all points during progression, with more focused, intimate skirmishes taking place in the cove to the northwest for contrast. Both the plasma gun (I HATE its new sound, for the record) and the BFG make their debut, and the RL ends up being an invaluable tool as well, though ammo for it seemed a bit too spare for it to really shine. For a map where so much of the drive in the action hinges on soft area-denial and on turret monsters, I felt that it did a fine job of encouraging more aggressive movement and looser play, engendering a sense of heightened action without falling into the trap of overemphasizing ledge-by-ledge cleanup which this placement style sometimes falls victim to.

This with the hitscanner frenzy which dominates the opening moments, as well! I didn't see this as being stifling, rather as a strong igniter for a faster-paced map,  though granted I seem to have more or less lucked into what some have called the 'intended' route (i.e. taking the shotgun and then the 'boo shroud' or whatever it is from the southern boat). There are a number of different paths you can take at the outset--you can seek refuge on the central island and take cover from most of the zombies before taking a shotgun from a sergeant, you can hang out below the northern rim of said island and put a commando's machinegun to work from there, you can head for the SSG enclosure, etc. The main thing is to move decisively at the start (again, presumably precisely what the design intends), and save perhaps for going into the cove too early I reckon all of these have good chances of success. The other thing about a mapstart in this specific vein is that, supposing you really do have some terrible RNG rolls before you can gain any momentum, the cost is small, since you're kaput more or less immediately and so lose very little progress or elapsed real time.

[Catpho]

MAP07 - “Groovy Hills” by Walter Confetti

Not really a fan of this map tbh. The open spaces make the map look somewhat bland, and this is not really an exciting theme with the hills, but at least all the brick house scene are cute (love the one in opening with the little garden, but disappointed that i couldnt get there). Gameplay is a bit forgettable too, barring the free kill at the end, which is funny. I also have much of the complaints @dobu gabu maru had, plus that music is irritating and WHY ARE THERE DOOM TEXTURES IN THE BERSERK ROOM X_X

I dont have much too say here, i felt that previous maps at least have something that will stick in my memory, but this one just doesnt (maybe the brick houses, but still). Sorry walter, the map is not a bad map but falters when stack against everything i have played, better luck next time i guess :/

Some screenies:

 

[NuMetalManiak]

MAP07 Groovy Hills

 

So while following this thread, I apparently caught wind of a certain map that apparently had to be docked a bit because of some things. I thought it was this map, but I guess I was wrong (was this map previously in MAP12?). There are pits in this one you cannot escape from without dying though. And these climbable vines honestly do not work right at all. Interesting use of grass bushes to provide weapons, though. Cavern spelunking gets me lost at times, but the map is like all others, shortened by the constraints to ensure it's not that bad. Maybe the cyber fight is okay too. Walter likes open areas as much as I do it seems.

[rehelekretep]

uv / pistol starts / no saves / glboom+

map07 fda

i found this quite confusing and the combat wasnt interesting enough to make up for it. the cyber fight at the end was cool. i also jumped into an inescapable pit because i thought it was a secret but we wont dwell on that >.<

[Demon of the Well]

Map 05 -- Painfully and Elitely Rustled - 103% Kills / No secrets - FDA

Yes, yes, this is certainly not something that past experience would've led me to expect from this mapper. PAER is a very short setpiece-focused map where nearly all of the design emphasis has been placed on combat encounters, versus the largely ambient approach taken in NMM's previous published works. As for how successful it is at painfully (and elitely) rustling one's jimmies, well......all in the eye of the beholder, I suppose, but compared to a lot of other community content lo these past several years I reckon this is pretty tame, offering introductory versions of a number of common challenge/action-oriented tropes--the running start, the 'ring marshal' fight (demons + manc turrets), the cascading pressure-cooker (cacos + viles area), and a small cyberdemon arena on the south parapet.

 

Each of the encounters requires a lot of movement and general attentiveness, but none is assertive enough (read: dickish or """unfair""" enough) to generate real pressure, at least not for players accustomed to many of the aforesaid action tropes. In the demons + mancs fight, the core concept is sound--the demons are buckshot sponges which crowd the space, hem you in, and open you to heavy hits from the mancs--but their number and/or rate of entry into the arena is not great enough or rapid enough for them to seize control of the available movement space any faster than the player can mitigate them simply by firing the shotgun at 'whatever.' The result is that the player can still move more or less freely, while the demons will tend to initially clump up into the center, where they will inevitably absorb errant mancubus shots and thus promptly fuck off to the edges of the arena, largely negating them as a concern before they've been killed.

 

The caco + viles lava pool area is more immediately threatening based simply on how powerful arch-viles are, and again, the apparent concept is sound--the cyberdemon is just a feint to get the first vile to surprise you, which is intended to make you flee the initial pool, allowing additional viles time to spawn (the timing here is well-judged as far as that goes, I think) to theoretically push you further and further towards the farthest pool, which in turn will introduce additional cacos to act as distractions or renewable meatshields for the group of viles. In practice, the irregular elongated shape and relatively small size of the individual pools and the many walls comprising them allow for the viles to be largely corralled in the initial pool (by dint of Doom's simplistic pathing AI), allowing the player to essentially gatekeep one of the thresholds and thus contain the situation before it ever has a chance to go PAERshaped. This takes some nerve, granted, and requires that the player not be immediately panicked by the viles (which will certainly not be all players), but again, for those accustomed to these kinds of fights this is not a tall ask.

 

The last cyberdemon fight works the best of the main encounters, I felt, mainly because the chaingunners on the corner posts don't appear immediately (and aren't foreshadowed in the way the viles from earlier are), making them both a credible attrition threat in their own right and an effective distraction/sudden shift in priority when they do appear, giving cybie a chance for some choice potshots unless the player stays sharp. I also liked the eerie grey stone chamber where the viles are introduced; seeing them repeatedly wake up and port out is suitably ominous, and this type of headgame is far more intimidating than the actual fight itself, which of course is precisely just how some folks like it.

 

Map 06 -- Airship of Doom - 100% Kills / 0% Secrets - FDA

Ah, yes, the airship deal, certainly one of the more memorable aspects of Mario 3, I suppose. This level seems primarily focused on the notion of convincingly rendering one of those Bowserkid airships in the idtech1 engine (which, conveniently, is a concept for which the project's size limitations seem to pose no serious inconvenience), and as far as that goes I think the end result has been nicely realized, particularly on the surface deck with its fancy whirligig engines and stormy sky.

 

Action seems to have been largely secondary a goal. Nothing here is offensive or dysfunctional, but there is relatively little to stand out beyond a vague sense that monster density in the ship's lower decks is a bit thicker than in any of the other maps thus far, though this is offset by the straightforward linearity and lack of any traps or other surprises in these sections, meaning a player can leisurely proceed at his or her own pace. The initial scramble on the surface deck is effective enough as a starter, playing off the Doomguy's initially light armament with the availability of lots of cover and movement space, and the final below deck section is more genuinely surprising, mustering a pretty formidable contingent of more powerful monsters defending the anteroom to the exit. Here, the lack of any heavy ordnance requires more fevered smallscale movement flitting between slight pieces of cover during the time it takes to wear the defenders down with bullets/buckshot, making it the most memorable encounter, if only through contrast with the rest of the map. Does make me wonder what's in the secret I missed, this, if it's a heavier weapon it could make quite the difference in this last fight.

[Catpho]

2 minutes ago, Demon of the Well said:

Does make me wonder what's in the secret I missed, this, if it's a heavier weapon it could make quite the difference in this last fight.

Its a rocket launcher (i missed it too XD)

[bioshockfan90]

MAP06: Airship of Doom, by Gothic|100% kills|0% secrets|

 

If you're gonna do the Mario theme in Doom, you're probably going to expect an airship or two. Then from there, you'd probably have 2 ways of adapting it to the Doom style of gameplay; an arena map or an adventure map. This is a blend of the two, and it's alright. Nothing really stunning, the gameplay isn't much to rave about, and it looks kinda samey at points, but it works and doesn't overstay its welcome. Plus I really can't be mad about spinning propeller blades because that's just really cool. Kudos for pipes that take you to the lower level of the ship? Also the final room is pretty neato. 

 

MAP07: Groovy Hills, by Walter C.|96% kills|0% secrets|

 

Odd map with clunky progression and some less than stellar gameplay. Enemies feel way too sparsely placed, and some encounters just feel like they're there for no reason other than to annoy you, like the 2 PEs that appear after you pick up the RK. Then again, this level's based on SMB2, the 'black sheep' of the franchise, so maybe it's intentional? I hope so. Going into the subworld was a nice touch for a secret, but it didn't really make up for how much of a slog I felt playing this. Even going into it with knowledge of where to go, I still got lost. 

 

Dunno, cyb fight at the end's neat I guess

 

 

[mun]

Catching up!

Map 03 -Sillydust Sanctuary by Jaxxoon R

Like the members above pointed out this map is tricky and would kill unexpected players on their first try. I usually die from the revenants and arch-viles, but I don't think it's really unbearable without accessing the sphere secret. The visuals and the accompanying music is in contrast however, being very relaxing UP UNTIL YOU DIE FROM THAT REVENANT AGAIN. (Dramatization on that part of the sentence there ;))

 

Map 04- Marina Moonlight by Pinchy

Our journey somehow takes us to this cold harbor. For a rather short map it sure left an impression. The change in setting, the texturing and the blocky detailing make for a unique and fresh feeling from the previous maps in a good way. Whenever the map is fun to play however depends on if you collected the SSG or not (or at least that's how I felt.). Also the spiderdemon appearance at the end feels uninspired and actually kinda funny.

 

Map 05- Painfully and Elitely Rustled by NuMetalManiak

I sorta cut some slack because this was a speedmap. But I can understand if other players play this and get disappointed. It focuses on rather easy setpiece battles copuled with rather simple visuals. There's epic music and an awesome sky for the map, but it didn't help enhance the map that much. I don't know, I guess it's not really fair to compare speedmaps to nonspeedmaps, but if you think that comparison is fair then this map is on the "B" quality side of the mapset.

[Demon of the Well]

Map 07 -- Groovy Hills - 100% Kills / 100% Secrets - FDA

Ah, Mr. Confetti, we meet again. Truth be told, without textfile/OP to refer to, I might never have guessed this was one of Walter's maps, as the SMB texture assets seem to mask his usual aesthetic lean (in fact, I might so far as to say that this is perhaps one of the most strongly/coherently themed/textured maps of his that I've seen). As it is, the mild green/blue/earth scheme with lots of shade in the caves was fine by me, though I can see how some might find it underachieving in comparison to some of the more, shall we say, "high concept" visual presentations in the set. The somewhat weird/offbeat gameplay might've been a possible clue to authorship, too, though of course there are any number of other creators who like to dabble (or straight up live in) that general realm of design, as well.

 

At any rate, the play and balance here are a mite quirky. Writ large this is a very sparse and somewhat slow-paced map, where most of the proceedings are determined by the element of attrition. The majority of enemies throughout the runtime are zombies, and outside of secrets there is little healing, limited ammo for only basic weapons (leaving aside the one-purpose BFG at the very end, of course), and I believe literally no armor. Action itself is extremely simplistic, but you've got to be wary of being chipped down to a danger state, which I would argue is just as likely to happen here as in m04 earlier, despite the much sparser population and general lack of crossfire or other tactical complications. On the other hand, finding the secrets swings the balance massively in the player's favor and makes it almost impossible to fail (or at least the megashroom secret does, rendering the others essentially entirely redundant), perhaps an issue, though being charitable I can see where this perceived 'imbalance' might be an actively intended aspect of homage to the source material (indeed, I was able to spot the megashroom secret mainly because I've played Mario 2, I'd warrant), along with the 'maze of warp-doors' idea and other nods.

 

Apologism aside, though, apart from the trio of pain elementals which appear in the central cave at one point (and which I do actually think are effective/entertaining, precisely because of how wildly inconvenient they are in the context of the larger balance), to be honest I have to admit that I found this map to be on the dull side, like many of the other players. Certainly a case of "more interesting than good", let's say.

 

Oh, and the exit to the P-Wing/backpack secret (which is NOT really a secret, I don't care how you try to rationalize it) is just fucking stupid. Why Walter, why? Another Mario reference that's going over my head, possibly?

[bioshockfan90]

10 minutes ago, Demon of the Well said:

 

Oh, and the exit to the P-Wing/backpack secret (which is NOT really a secret, I don't care how you try to rationalize it) is just fucking stupid. Why Walter, why? Another Mario reference that's going over my head, possibly?

it's a reference to Super Mario Brothers 2 on the NES, basically there were hidden doors that led to this dark "midnight" landscape called the subworld, usually had some goodies in there and you could return back to the normal world. basically that game's version of secrets. another reference, the texturing in the final Cyb room is a reference to the final boss room of that same game in the fight against Wart. 

[Magnusblitz]

I'm actually half on-board with you about the map theme, Demon, in that I've never played a ton of Mario and have no great nostalgia for the theme. And the brightness of the walls does clash a bit with the monsters and make the imp fireballs hard to see. That said, I do think the palette can be striking on its own, and you're a horrible person for hating the new plasma gun.

 

MAP07: Groovy Hills

100% kills, 2/3 secrets

 

I like the theme to this one (blue/green outdoors, brown indoor caves) but the actual proceedings do seem to swing a bit between underbaked and mildly annoying. Little things like the insta-lift vines (I agree, should've been thin invisible stairs), inescapable pits (though this is more Doom's fault for not having auto-kill holes) and that annoying backpack secret... and most of all, not letting the player jump to the brick house at the start! This is why playtesting is important, if you've got this many people trying to jump there to find something, there should probably be something there. :P

[Demon of the Well]

@bioshockfan90Yeah, I remember the backlit subworld in Mario 2, where unpulled vegetables would become coins or other goodies. I was referring more to the actual physical exit to the P-Wing cave, which is a tiny invisible teleporter 'neath the P-Wing itself (which you are naturally likely to collect first because it's a few paces in front of the entrance, thus punting you out and making you re-enter the room to get the backpack), instead of the door into the cave, which unlike every other visually identical portal in the level only works as an entrance rather than entrance/exit.

 

Edit: recalling further, I guess in Mario 2 the stints in the subworld were generally on a short timer? Maybe the rather arbitrary setup in Walter's map is supposed to roughly simulate that?

Edited April 7, 2018 by Demon of the Well