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dobu gabu maru

The DWmegawad Club plays: Super Mayhem 17

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map18 fda

glboom+ / uv / pistol starts / saves

this is really fun. the void setting leaves an impression, and the bizarre progression is odd rather than irritating, i think chiefly because the open space isnt populated by dangerous hitscanners/rev rockets/or cybers, which would leave you running for a route out and getting frustrated with each death. i think i may have missed the last weapon pickup and then the map was over!

 

map19 fda

glboom+ / uv / pistol starts / saves

wow. that start without armour is quite nasty. then the map kinda plateaus and eases off for a bit, leaving me completely surprised when viles and the cyber started warping in. with some slightly panicked play i was able to escape unscathed but good work TMD for getting the player to relax and then hitting them hard. theres a gold brick which i kept going past and shooting/trying to press but it didnt seem to do anything; a multi-part secret or just a troll red herring? >.<

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Map 26 -- Bowser in the Black Abyss - 96% Kills / 0% Secrets - FDA

A fine climax to the set, this, not merely designated by being the set's hardest map (which is debatable in itself, perhaps), but something clearly designed to be the big finale, final bossfight with Bowser and all. Most welcome, and not to be taken for granted in a mapset created after this particular type of CP model (i.e. theoretically open to all/run in a condensed timespan), though the Mayhem series has generally been pretty good about trying to go the extra mile regarding this particular aspect of arrangement, I suppose.

 

The author combo here is quite tantalizing in prospect, as Marcaek and rdwpa have, at least going by their past release histories, what I would describe as markedly different approaches (esp. to balance and encounter design), and so I was expecting something rather unusual. TBH, this is not what this is, and rdwpa's account of who did what--i.e. most of the structure and layout being of Marcaek's design, with most of the actual placement and fights being of his own making--explains the final result pretty clearly. Writ large, this absolutely plays like an rdwpa map in his heretofore established style (though probably both slightly easier than average, as he says, and also a little more concise/condensed/focused in terms of progression), and with little hint of what I've seen from Marcaek in the past, though hounds for analytic detail will likely notice the pronounced differences in architectural style and such versus rd's own.  So, the map's not the chimerical creation one might've surmised and hoped for, it's true, but what it actually is functions well regardless, and is consistently fun and exciting enough that it's difficult to feel too disappointed (though I would still absolutely love to see a more organic collab in future!).

 

Setpiece fights are the order of the day, each different, each effectively toeing the line between invigorating empowerment and oppressiveness, usually offsetting heavy pressure from multiple simultaneous sources with fairly generous supplies of healing and ammo. While the map generally wears its heart on its sleeve as to where its intentions lie, versus m11 which casually used tight setpiece fights in the context of a more adventure-oriented map, I would say that it feels significantly fleshed-out in framing versus the simplistic m21, thus more compelling. The arrangement of the early fights in particular has a lot of efficient nuance--unlike in m21, where there is a set 'starter kit' which precedes all of the action, here which of the first two fights the player goes to first (RL fight or RK fight) has a major impact on how the next fight plays, and the possibility of nicking items out of the RL fight's ante-area to use in the RK fight instead adds further layers.

 

Additionally, there's also the secret/optional BFG fight to consider, which is easily the map's nastiest fight as far as packing the most lethality into the smallest amount of time/space goes, but pays off with dividends that have a major impact on the player's options in later battles. I somehow missed this in the FDA, in lazy contravention of my own rule about carefully checking behind/around you at mapstart (same deal with the shotgun secret in m20, come to mention it), and so my workhorses for the map were RL and plasma gun. I found it was balanced beautifully for this, whereas having the BFG + foreknowledge significantly tilts odds in the player's favor later on, making proceedings more of a showfloor for ruthless efficiency. This level of balance in this style of map is rarely achieved, and is laudable.

 

While there is essentially zero incidental combat and little genuine exploration/traversal element involved in map progression, the map avoids feeling entirely like a disassociated sequence of arenas by dint of stylish use of quiet time and 'void space' in gameplay terms--the silent fortress veneer, Bowser sitting in shadows in the otherwise empty, massive throneroom before you are subjected to the penultimate ordeal, etc--allowing the setting itself to carry some of the load, and establishing a more palpable sense of buildup through the earlier fights to the finale.

 

My favorite of the fights, incidentally, was the big scrappy final scuffle in the lava-floored throneroom with Bowser and an eruption of mercenaries from Below. While not as brutally efficient as a couple of the earlier fights, it absolutely has the greatest sense of shit coming unglued and there not being a whole lot you can do about it other than to hang on for the ride, balancing a heavy aspect of incidental damage and a sort of implicit (but by no means mandatory) complication to stay off of the lava floor with a ton of healing and other items drip-fed in over the course of the fight to keep you in the fight as long as you don't mentally turtle up. Bowser himself is no slouch as a classic tank, as expected--mountains of HP with a powerful but tactically straightforward attack--though I admit I was both surprised and pleased to find that he and I were the last two things standing at the end, considering all that been flung into the fight just prior. His behavior/routine seems familiar--Adolf Hitler from Xaser's map in D2iNO, maybe?--but feels a natural fit for the scenario, quite amusing to see his flame-breath bulldozing through groups of zombies and imps and the like.

 

There are quibbles, mainly technical, but they're very minor. I too noticed and was somewhat disapproving of the red hell sky which shows through instead of the abyss in places; it appears consistently enough in 'interior' spaces to read as a possible deliberate design choice, but looks jarring enough to just as credibly read as an oversight. I thought that the final fight would've felt slightly glossier if the height difference between the lava floor and the raised stone floor structure radiating out from the center had been halved or so, as well--as it stands larger corpses (cacos, mancs, groups of pinkies, etc.) can collect on the raised part and make it surprisingly difficult to see clearly what's going on across the room (and shit flying at you), which doesn't seem intentional. Also a couple of mechanical hiccups--in the FDA you'll see the visual error around the megashroom in the center of the throneroom (which I've not been able to replicate), and in the RK fight three out of three times I've played the teleport-flashes on either side of the green armor have behaved irregularly, once both lasting until the nobles appeared, once with only the left lasting until the nobles appeared, and the right lasting until body-blocked by the mancubus in the FDA.

 

Excellent closer with a suitably imposing look/feel, together with a couple of the other maps almost gives me hope for the viability of the Mario aesthetic. Almost. ;)

 

Map 27 -- Congratulations! - FDA, for completeness' sake.

Outro/bookend map intended to separate Mayhem17 from the palette-molested stock maps remaining in slots 28-30. As aforesaid, Mayhem has often been more conscientious about these niceties than similar CPs, though in some respect this is perhaps necessitated by its willingness to settle for a final mapcount other than "32+ at any cost." I admit I was secretly hoping for some kind of easter egg with the IoS face in m30, but no dice. :)

Edited by Demon of the Well

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9 hours ago, dobu gabu maru said:

lol thank god you voted for that Pirx, I was gonna have a fit if you tied the results with Mayhem & Boomed

 

Hehe, I was in a restaurant, with no Internet connection on my phone, and when I suddenly  remembered that I wanted to break that stalemate I went out and posted without looking for new posts first. So, nice to see how it turned out. 

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On 4/25/2018 at 2:32 AM, Catpho said:

Some of the personality that made his works endearing are present in bits and pieces, but this is not one of Rottking's most captivating works. Just a good map, no more, no less.

 

 

I'm honestly curious what that personality is? This isn't because I'm annoyed or trying to stroke my ego, it interests me as a level designer cause I wonder what it is, coming from another person's perspective.

 

On 4/27/2018 at 11:20 PM, Demon of the Well said:

 

Map 24 -- Bowser's Daddy Dungeon - 100% Kills / 50% Secrets - FDA

I have been known to criticize speedmaps in particular for often seeming like stream-of-thought collections of geometry and textures with no real gameplay ideas to fill them out and give them purpose. Rottking's map here struck me as something of the contrary case, a collection of short and largely unrelated gameplay ideas he had in his head that he decided to put down all together at once, resulting in a strange underground tower-mansion-castle-garden-playroom-zoo sort of place whose capricious and largely unplaceable form seems dictated by function, rather than the other way around. The overall impression is, aesthetic/concourse sensibilities aside, something like a whimsical old 90s romp. In the good way, I mean. :)

 

Overall flow, connection, and progression are all a bit clunky here, at least in purely pragmatic 'flow' terms, and certain bits seem to exist for no real reason other than to express a random idea (i.e. the sideswapping coin hallways, the blue armor room, etc.) largely unrelated to the main goals of the level (which are seldom clear), but this is something the map owns, and for the most part manages to make work--it's sort of Petersenesque in its way, though the size/time constraints for maps in the project mean that you never end up too far off course. Combat comes in irregular spurts of brief intensity intermingled with lighter incidental fair and a sort of sniper-dominated central space to keep less battle-suited parts of the map from feeling entirely empty, but while the action has enough violence to satisfy and a traditional thing balance (i.e. RL is the Big Gun here) tight enough to keep one alert and engaged, fighting's not really the central point, wandering around and traversing the weird, vertically-inclined space and looking at the idea exhibitions is, and fittingly enough the level's "combat climax" didn't really work for me--the arch-vile is presumably supposed to warp around the four pipes, I guess (?), but he just stayed in place and got blasted when I visited.

 

 

My main inspirations for the level were Super Mario 3D Land on the 3DS and Mario 64's ghost house level, with a bit of Mario World. The collection of ideas and gimmicks mostly stemmed from Mario 64 and World's ghost houses, cause I noticed in those games there were kinda various rooms that each had their own gimmick, so I decided I'd try to emulate that a bit. The Mario 3D Land influence mostly materialized in the form of the center area, with the multi-tiered height variation and all that. As for the visual theme, I suppose I just wanted to mash together the themes of a castle and ghost house, with the castle influence giving me the idea for the arena battle at the end, similar to the ones found in the Koopaling Castles in Mario World.

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It's still April somewhere on the planet, nya.

 

Map 15: DNF

 

  On my attempt that made it past the opener, killed off over half the opposition before the floor fell out from under me and I got fried by an archvile.  Didn't even make it to the blinking cyberdemon dance-a-thon.

 

  Cool map which makes interesting use of Mario World fortress and ghost house textures into something quite different from their origin.  The music choice works out to despite being indifferent to it in its home game.  There's multiple angles to approach nearly every encounter on the map.  The red coins also add an air of mystery given their purpose isn't spelled out for the player.

 

  The map has a tricky opening.  Only after taking out the first two archviles and having plasma added to my arsenal, did I feel I was gaining momentum.  Lots of revenants lie in wait in sometimes tight quarters so just because there's abundant rockets doesn't mean things will be easy.  All the moving parts of the map are effective at creating tension since I'm never quite sure how the next monster will reveal itself with all the lifts and lowering walls.

 

Don't have much else to add.  Others have sung the praises of this map better than I could.

 

Map 31: finished  2/3 secrets

 

     This would work just as well without monsters.  Their presence seems to be more to fill a quota and/or serve as a distraction that this is a devious puzzle map.  I ended up getting really into it.  It took a bit to ponder out the invisible walkway optional puzzle (incidentally, I solved it the intended way as I gave up trying to use the ceiling).  The platforming to reach another green star was fun and not really frustrating.  I can only imagine what sort of clever jumping puzzle would be in place had jumping been allowed.  The warp maze: I'm with the crowd that it felt tedious and was just trial and error trying to remember what led where. (though there is some logic behind the solution path)  Pyramid is a clever setup with the Doom engine's limitations.  Haven't encountering anything quite like it before.  Only after playing did I learn who the author is.  Guess I'm not shocked that it's the mastermind behind The Given.  That one stumped me, this map is much more approachable with it's puzzle setups.

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whew nelly - i finished off the mapset this evening:

 

map20 fda
glboom+ / uv / pistol starts / saves

really enjoyed this. a good use of verticality without it causing too many infinite height issues. i watched @rdwpa's speed demo and it is very fun zooming up and down the stairs and obstacles. the only bit i found irritating was the climb up to the final room - too many instances where viles can spot you but you cant see them. final room is cool, cyber number + room size is nicely balanced.

 

map21 fda

glboom+ / uv / pistol starts / saves

i actually played this on the 21st but didnt post ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ . once you get over the visual vomit of the rainbow road theme its not too complex. i didnt like the combo of cyber rockets flying across the void with the difficulty of spotting them in amongst the colours. but a nice change of pace and visual style.
 

map22 fda

glboom+ / uv / pistol starts / saves

the best thing i can say about this map is it doesnt out-stay its welcome. i ended up saving and reloading to avoid the friction/ice effects. the conveyor belt fight is fun, everything else wasnt.

 

map23 fda

glboom+ / uv / pistol starts / saves

wow. the start of this map is cool, very congested/cramped so you have to make sure you dont corner yourself like i did. without a rocket launcher or any cover the teleporting vile is v. tiresome though. however, once you get through the rk teleporter - oh boy - what a shit show. revenants, lost souls, a sniping mastermind (which actually ended up being the least dangerous thing), chaingunners and cacos, plus platforming and a death-void. utterly infuriating. first time i went though i was low on health and armour and was on the verge of giving up before checking for secrets and picking up a soulsphere. even with that the struggle to avoid too much bad luck and damage was just completely a waste of time. finally got the baron to infight with the rev, triggered and killed the shotgunners and got through. this ties with the first ice-map for most irritating map in the wad.

 

map24 fda

glboom+ / uv / pistol starts / saves

slightly bizarre progression and lots of routes leading to no ammo and death. almost iwad style. was quite fun to figure out and complete though. im not sure how it would hold up on replays - whether it would be more fun or just annoying following a set path to keep ammo high enough to chew through everything. another map that made a nice use of verticality imo.

 

map25 fda

glboom+ / uv / pistol starts / saves

really enjoyed this one. a rumble through a castle, lots of ammo and rockets handed out earlier, no real annoying turrets or snipers even though the setting/architecture would seemingly demand it. top class. only 'bad' point was the Bowser not appearing. is he meant to teleport in or does a secret lead to him?

https://imgur.com/IfKBMVn

 

map26 fda

glboom+ / uv / pistol starts / saves

Mario's emo period. very menacing fortress. the secret bfg fight is class - liked that a lot.

the fork to the right is oddly truncated, the mancubi and chaingunner room was large for what actually happens in there.

the revs and souls fight seems a bit luck-based: @rdwpa do you have a consistent strategy for that one or is it just crap play on my part?

the left fork's plasmagun trap feels unfair without the bfg and trivial with (although you wouldnt guess it from my awful play :D)

the maze fight is very well paced, really enjoyable with the cubes descending and revealing more and more stuff.

the Bowser is an infighting legend and i loved the pipes spewing out zombies and mancubi at the end :D

good map if a little 'small' for the size of fortress/architecture.

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47 minutes ago, rehelekretep said:

the revs and souls fight seems a bit luck-based: @rdwpa do you have a consistent strategy for that one or is it just crap play on my part?

 

I'll give the FDA a watch later, but my approach is to ignore the shotgunners and focus the RL on the rev spawns while staying on one side (guide rev rockets into the wall on that side), then switch to the SSG at about the time the lost souls show up to finish off any revs, and then to switch to the chaingun when the souls are massed (if I don't have or don't want to use the PR). That can really make this part a lot easier. If targetting shotgunners first, I'd use the same 'stay on one side at first' approach to get revs to bunch up better, but would expect to probably use medkits. 

 

 

On the RK side, the RL and leaving some monsters alive to interfere with spawns or distract also soften up the lethality of the noble horde. Also, when holding them off PR-only: HKs/barons will always stop and attack if you are in melee range, so they can be slowed down for crucial seconds by baiting that (even if the chaingunners prevent you from doing it indefinitely). I think you can still get screwed no matter what with something like bottom-5% RNG, but there are reliable ways to do this fight (and the least reliable way involves doing it first thing in the map, minimizing potential time waste), so I don't mind that too much. 

 

21 hours ago, Demon of the Well said:

Also a couple of mechanical hiccups--in the FDA you'll see the visual error around the megashroom in the center of the throneroom (which I've not been able to replicate)

 

This was a linedef skip that can be a gamebreaker (luckily you didn't also skip the linedef that allows Bowser to be freed). So I guess Mayhem '16 needs an updated version for sure -- m21 also had linedef skip issues where it's possible to be softlocked. :( Also I mentioned to Marcaek that I'd be up for collaborating again, so maybe that more organic collaboration might occur at some point. 

Edited by rdwpa

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i used show alive monsters as i had 1 monster left to try and find it!

you can press numpad 8 to toggle it on/off in pr/glboom+

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22 hours ago, Demon of the Well said:

Bowser himself is no slouch as a classic tank, as expected--mountains of HP with a powerful but tactically straightforward attack--though I admit I was both surprised and pleased to find that he and I were the last two things standing at the end, considering all that been flung into the fight just prior.

 

Interesting. I spent most of the the finale just running circles around the whole shebang. I did get a couple of potshots in on ol' Bowser, but it was infighting that ultimately killed him for me.

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very nice, thank you for your comments @rdwpa

see the problem with using saves (for me at least) is i can end up not trying everything in every encounter because i dont have to replay it and work out a consistent strategy. on the other hand i probably wouldnt have finished the wad tonight without saves. must find a more sensible balance 🤔

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4 minutes ago, Salt-Man Z said:

 

Interesting. I spent most of the the finale just running circles around the whole shebang. I did get a couple of potshots in on ol' Bowser, but it was infighting that ultimately killed him for me.

The third and so far final time I had played the map, he got pinned/immobilized against one of the outer posts and was being eaten by a couple of pinkies, -cl 9 and all that. I rescued him, because that's just the kind of guy I am, but it's certainly not inconceivable he won't always make it to the end considering how many actors and thus AI/RNG possibilities there are in that fight. His big HP pool should be enough to carry him most of the time even if he doesn't attack much, seems like, but of course there's weirdness that can happen in the engine that there's no real accounting for.

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On 4/28/2018 at 4:20 AM, Demon of the Well said:

Map 23 -- Down the Wrong Pipe - 104% Kills / 50% Secrets - FDA

 though on the downside the segment seemed to end in somewhat untidy way, requiring an inelegant reverse backtrack at the end at a point where it still seems like the room might have some development remaining.

you can actually jump across to a ledge right next to the exit pipe from that room. still backtracking but a bit neater/more interesting. i dont know if it was intended but i suspect it was :)

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Don't worry guys! I finally finished Super Mayhem!!!!!! I know you were all waiting with bated breath!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

MAP19: Hey this was a fun little bloody arena map—seems to be TMD’s specialty. The start and the cyber warp-in were the two trickiest parts for me, the former because of the applied pressure of the PEs, and the latter because of the pincer AVs (plus I really didn’t wanna waste time SSGing a cyber to death). Really cool map that thankfully let the player run wild with the rocket launcher, which led the map to only being a handful of minutes long (well, excluding deaths). I wish the lift to the red key was a little more obviously a lift, but I’ll excuse it since there’s no Mario texture that screams “lift!” I suppose. Good work!

 

MAP20: For a name like “Transformation Palace”, there sure isn’t a whole heck of a lot of… transforming going on. Sure, there’s the rising platforms in the penultimate room, but everything else is pretty standard Doom fare, mechanically speaking. Gameplay-wise, the first half of the map was pretty fun, especially since you’re provided a lot of room to bob and weave through revenant missiles while retaliating with your own rockets. The second half though…

 

Was not good. As soon as you get to the top of the central chamber, a flood of cacos and revs warp in, which just forces the player down into some corner to try and clean them out (which like, maybe the player could try and start some infighting, but the PEs force them on the defensive). Then you climb back up and AVs spawn in, forcing the player into yet another defensive state where they’re constantly tripping and falling down to the lower levels. The transformation room is a total goddamn mess with no pillars to hide from the AVs, forcing the player to snipe at their demonic toes with hitscan weapons (RIP to folks like me that play with the HUD on, blocking vision of that dumb AV on the stairs), and the last room is just a chaotic mess. The map really felt either haphazardly tested, or Argent Agent has a specific style of play that I am not privy to.

 

MAP21: A neat—albeit vicious!—map from Scotty. Absolutely love the SNES Rainbow Road aesthetic, and I’m actually quite surprise we didn’t see a similar map in the project. I like too how he gives the player brief bouts of speed before the delve into each arena. With that said however, jesus Scotty, maybe you could’ve cooled it with the cybers? Like, one less at least. The fights themselves are fun, panicky arenas (barring the blue key one which demands you hide behind the mushroom pillar and BFG the AVs—or face insta-death), but the cybers in the SMM arena were giving me grief as I was looking for what to do/where to go. The map is short enough that its crass attitude can be hand-waved away, but I think had it strove for the difficulty along the lines of that in the final fight, it would’ve been a smashing homerun.

 

MAP22: Hooo weee them physics sure are rough. I spammed save/reload on this map because I was bouncing everywhere. Not entirely sure the water needed to be damaging, since the map is low on ammo if you try to just snipe everyone down in the drink. That, and the revs from afar were a goddamn enormous pain in the ass. Seriously, there’s nothing quite as nettlesome as waiting on a slow moving lift just to get blown up as you’re trying to run to a platform to slap on a switch. Arrghhh!

 

At least the teleporter rapids at the end were kinda neat? I like the idea of enemies flowing into the arena at a semi-random rate, but that sniper rev continued to be a massive pain in my keister, so I couldn’t really appreciate the chaos. A quirky map… somewhat admirable… but definitely way more grouse-worthy than the earlier ice physics map.

 

MAP23: Ehhhh not too keen on this one either. The other TMD map has a lot of nice open space and flow to it, while this one kinda just points at your failures and laughs at you. Maneuvering in the tight space for the first half was plenty fine, but the second half shows up, disorients you, and pulls some really weird maneuvers on the player. And then there’s that droll fake exit, which at least managed to elicit a “of course” from my lips. Oh well.

 

MAP24: One half ghost house, one half bowser castle? Kinda? Don’t actually have too much to write about here—it was a very good level with tight ammo balance and solid monster placement. Nothing was too hard (outside of accidentally letting all the imps live when I went to go hit the switch that reveals the RK, oopsie), and the finale was cute in a really fun, entertaining way, unlike quite a few of the teleporting AV battles this wad has had. Great level; wouldn’t expect less from Rottking!

 

MAP25: Brilliant map by Breezeep here. It’s got a nice, grandiose scale to it despite feeling like a brief and punchy experience. Lotta non 90/45 degree angles, solid texture work, some beautiful exterior vistas on the right side, and guess what? ROCKETS! LOTS OF ROCKETS! To the point that I was like “oh boy I might need to conserve some of these shells”! The SG & RL is a pretty interesting, relatively unused combo, and Breezeep puts them to good work here. The final battle is a helluva a lot of fun too, at first appearing like a guaranteed loss (you’re sandwiched between a cyber, SMM, AV, and a pack of revs!), but there’s enough space to get a good brawl going in the middle while you clean up stragglers along the outside. Really smart double use of a single cyber too... almost wish this map was longer.

 

All in all, a really cool map. No complaints here.

 

MAP26: rdwpa and Marcaek make for a pretty aggressive combo, but thankful nothing was too malicious here, outside of that nasty BFG secret (which could be chalked up to either of the authors). Good “set piece to set piece map”—the red block arena being my fave since I couldn't predict which baddies I'd get during my first go-around. The finale in particular was really explosive and ludicrous. I feel bad for poor Bowser because his attack pattern is kinda interesting in that it lends more power to the CG, SSG & PG so that you can interrupt his fire breath, but since there’s so many enemies being (sometimes literally) thrown in, you really don’t have to deal with him too much—just keep circle strafing, picking up power ups, and eventually the koopa king will be dethroned by his own minions. It’s a really cool fight structurally though; there’s a lot of different wave variety and the incoming powerups makes it so you’re never in too tight of a bind. Clever scripted scuffle, this—might have to do something similar one day.

 

Overall, Super Mayhem 17 is a delight. It doesn’t take too long to blast through, and the gimmicks are on the relatively “low” side, which might be surprising, given that Doom’s take on Super Mario Bros. could result in some really gnarly and awful concepts. Then again, we are the Doom community first and foremost, so naturally we’d put out something with a lot of violence, explosions and bloodshed. Good work to all those that submitted a map; I think it's really cool that no map in this project came off as feeling like filler, despite how short and punchy a lot of them were. Every level had purpose, which helped to make the ride an enjoyable one :)

 

Faves:

MAP12
MAP16
MAP19
MAP25
MAP26

 

Least Faves:

MAP07
MAP14
MAP20

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