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Reinchard

Doom with PBR materials

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15 hours ago, Gez said:

A thing to keep in mind is that the light effects depend on positioned lights -- Doom's basic, simplistic ambient light system doesn't provide direction for the light, without direction there's no angle of collision with surfaces, without angles the normals cannot work. So even if you have a PBR texture pack for vanilla Doom, that won't be enough -- you need to edit the maps to put light sources where appropriate.

 

While it is true that the maps would need editing to get the full potential of PBR, it would still be visible with the dynamic lighting projected by props and enemy projectiles.

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Props or projectile can spot some lights only for small pieaces of walls/floors. Unlit part of level will still look so much blend and out of place, even worst then original lowres graphic, because without lighting only thing you can see is albedo map, which is basically just a color without any shading information in it. If you want to use PBR materials you must setup proper lighting system for whole level, there is no other way.

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On 4/6/2018 at 3:31 PM, Reinchard said:

A small example how it looks when all you have is barely diffuse+normal map. So, now imagine how it would look like with roughness, metallic, ao and spec.

v5jfgUy.png

 

5ufE96E.png

8oKLnGJ.png

St8ae62.png

It looks awesome 

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I haven't really been able to keep working on this materials lately as much as I'd like to, but today I found some extra time, so I decided to play around with new shader created by dpJudas from ZDoom forums. Personally I'm not a fan of parallax mapping at all, but I was curious how it work on GZDoom. Because I had heightmaps baked for all my materials there wasn't much to do, just paste my maps in correct directory and that's all. It's a simple test to show where this technique looks good and where's not. I think even if I decided to use this in future I think I would prefer to use this as rarely as possible (mostly on floors/ceilings and occasionally on some walls like star series).

gyqTXOK.jpg

DhTocKH.jpg

iRKXUJe.jpg

XkF2HiH.jpg

dK5WRNE.jpg

3Zcwduj.jpg

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24 minutes ago, Reinchard said:

I haven't really been able to keep working on this materials lately as much as I'd like to, but today I found some extra time, so I decided to play around with new shader created by dpJudas from ZDoom forums. Personally I'm not a fan of parallax mapping at all, but I was curious how it work on GZDoom. Because I had heightmaps baked for all my materials there wasn't much to do, just paste my maps in correct directory and that's all. It's a simple test to show where this technique looks good and where's not. I think even if I decided to use this in future I think I would prefer to use this as rarely as possible (mostly on floors/ceilings and occasionally on some walls like star series).

 

 

Wow, how did you do these? I thought normal maps were enough to add 3D detail but these blow that out of the water.

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1 hour ago, GoatLord said:

Are there plans to do a low res variation?

 

Isn't there another project doing the same but with the original textures?

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Damn Reinchard, those look pretty great.  It's no simple task to translate the original Doom textures to full parallax-compatible, but those look generally excellent. You're absolutely right about the effect only suiting certain textures though. 

 

How far through the overall process of creating PBR for the original texture set would you say you are?

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On 4/24/2018 at 6:29 PM, Jerry.C said:

So what is this?

 

Making everything as shiny as possible, regardless of what it's supposed to represent?

 

In the E1M1 screenshot I see:

 

- a green wall that I always imagined to be a greenish concrete surface turned into something covered with, as Gez already said, high-gloss paint.

- a floor surface that's also a lot more shiny than stone should look. The tiles in my kitchen have a similar look but on the floor of some industrial facility it looks out of place.

- and to top it off, for the sake of shininess the stone ceiling turned into metal???

 

Come on! I absolutely love the possibilities of PBR, but it definitely needs a dose of realism, not being as shiny and reflective as possible.

 

Yes, PBR adds so much potential that it's easy to abuse the power! These are great example screenshots, and quite inspiring! But when it becomes time to clamp down and get serious about all of it, each layer of each image should probably be tweaked, and toned down.

 

Thing is, the first 5 minutes of looking at it is breathtaking, but, it's inevitable: Eventually your eyes become accustomed to the quality level, and things like 'shininess' start to look out of place. It's unexpected, but toning down some of those qualities really accentuate the qualities more, when and where it counts. Another way to look at it: If everything is shiny, nothing is shiny - it becomes a quirk of the renderer. But, when this quality is reserved for textures that should be shiny, being conservative about the use of shininess/reflectiveness/etc. will really pay off. All of a sudden, it's no longer a gimmick - it instead adds to the realism. I'd like to see some very un-shiny textures for contrast.

 

It's not unlike the old Wizard of Oz movie: Started out in black&white, then switched to color...very saturated color. The red slippers, the green castle, the yellow brick road! Purple horses! This was ok for Oz, but would be cartoony for anything else.

 

Please don't take this as a negative criticism. What you all have been doing is incredible! It's more of a suggestion, after having looked at a lot of amazing results. I feel the same way for some of the dynamic lights on items, like the blue +1 health bottles, that look like they are lit with an array of blue LEDs. It's a bit excessive. If that were toned down, I think levels that use them would look a lot better. Just one guy's opinion.

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Sorry, double post:

I just wanted to say, again, that the work you've done is incredible! The door with the raised bolts, recessed little tech panels, red tubing (looks like glass or plastic - amazing!), the rust (which looks like the result of moisture building up on the door, over time): The amount of work you put into this door must be massive! I would suck playing Doom with this texture set, because I'd spend all my time shining torches and flashlights around, looking at your doors! Wow!

 

I wasn't implying that you were doing anything wrong. You obviously know how to build your multi-layer composite textures properly, and with precision. My comment was more a general suggestion, based on having seen a few example screenshots where the room looked a bit shinier than I'd expect. I hope they pay you well at your job, as you do it well! I am excited to see how it all turns out.

 

On the other hand, I lot of the extra shininess might be due to dynamic light sources in the scene that may either be too bright, too white, placed too close to the walls, or at a strange angle.

 

One issue with the original textures is that we don't know exactly what material each texture is made of. Sometimes it obvious, or the texture name suggests the material. And, a lot of the recent screenshots take place around pools of nukage. If that nukage is hot, one might argue that there is a lot of condensation buildup on the walls and ceiling, which could add shininess. It would be really nice if the engine could detect such rooms, and automatically add a bit of condensation, like a dynamic light adds colored light in the right places. Because of this possibility, I suppose textures should be constructed as if they were 'dry', and the engine could adjust them at load time, or in real time. PBR adds a lot of possibilities that were just not there before. It's kinda exciting!

 

Anyway, it seems like you know what you're doing, a lot better than I you. Don't know what else to say about textures being "too shiny". Maybe a Doom test level needs to be constructed, with proper, balanced lighting of various sorts, that would allow some very specific tests in a controlled scenario. Beyond that, not being an artist, I have no idea what to suggest here.

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3 hours ago, kb1 said:

On the other hand, I lot of the extra shininess might be due to dynamic light sources in the scene that may either be too bright, too white, placed too close to the walls, or at a strange angle.

This :)

Thanks for good and detailed analysis. You don't have to convince me about why are you using some critisism while you approve my work at the same time - it's very clear to me.  Constructive criticism is one of the most important thing in graphic work and people who don't get it should thind some other work/hobby because their wasting his and other people time (I know that sort of people - always offended, never progessing). But backing to what you elaborate above - materials have their index of refraction setting right, they works exactly how should work that kind of surface which I actually tried to get. The main problem on this stage is GZDoom dynamic lights system. It's far away from perfect, but this what you see on screenies is not a final setting. Is just quick placeholders to check if it worked. This + some of this materials are still not in his final version.

On 9/1/2018 at 6:52 PM, Bauul said:

How far through the overall process of creating PBR for the original texture set would you say you are?

It's hard to say. I'm really busy right now with commercial project in studio where I work, deadline is near and we should realease early acces version of WW3 shortly, so I put most of my energy to this stuff and play around with Doom PBR materials only ocassional for now. But be patient, I always finish my job with my projects, so even if this take me some more time then I expected, I finish it.

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17 hours ago, Reinchard said:

This :)

Thanks for good and detailed analysis. You don't have to convince me about why are you using some critisism while you approve my work at the same time - it's very clear to me.  Constructive criticism is one of the most important thing in graphic work and people who don't get it should thind some other work/hobby because their wasting his and other people time (I know that sort of people - always offended, never progessing).

It seems like you understood my intentions - thanks for that. On a forum, it's so easy to offend people unintentionally. I am very jealous of your abilities and talents! Your ability to translate images in your head to actual textures is a process I cannot begin to understand. Good luck on your commercial project - I'm sure you'll do well.

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On 9/1/2018 at 11:40 PM, Reinchard said:

I haven't really been able to keep working on this materials lately as much as I'd like to, but today I found some extra time, so I decided to play around with new shader created by dpJudas from ZDoom forums. Personally I'm not a fan of parallax mapping at all, but I was curious how it work on GZDoom. Because I had heightmaps baked for all my materials there wasn't much to do, just paste my maps in correct directory and that's all. It's a simple test to show where this technique looks good and where's not. I think even if I decided to use this in future I think I would prefer to use this as rarely as possible (mostly on floors/ceilings and occasionally on some walls like star series).

gyqTXOK.jpg

DhTocKH.jpg

iRKXUJe.jpg

XkF2HiH.jpg

dK5WRNE.jpg

3Zcwduj.jpg

This is amazing!  Keep up the great work.  You are a master.

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