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Marn

Suppose the IWADs were released today as PWADs.

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Let's assume that Doom 1 and 2 different maps with different styles, yet still received the same amount of praise. Let's also assume that mapping standards for quality have evolved to be the same as they are today.

 

If the IWADs we know today were to be released as PWADs, how would they be received?

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It's weird to think about because the context would be different. Would we like Romero style maps as much as we do* were it not for the nostalgia and the fact it was pioneered by Romero? I think Doom 2 maps wouldn't get much love but Ultimate Doom would. Plutionia would be well received too.

 

*Romero maps aren't inherently good but lots of people like the style

 

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15 minutes ago, Linguica said:

I would love to see a universe where D2TWID was released in 1994 as Doom 2, and alternate-universe-D2TWID later was released featuring the actual Doom 2 levels, just to see what people would say about them.

Yea i had an idea like this too, but thought it wasnt thread worthy :P

Needless to say, i would be IN LOVE with Petersen's mapping if he maps like his emulation in both dtwid >:) WAY cooler in twid series than in the original iwads imo.

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i actually think episode 1 doesn't get enough praise, it's immersive techbase even by today's standards

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1 minute ago, tib_ said:

i actually think episode 1 doesn't get enough praise, it's immersive techbase even by today's standards

Episode 1 gets the most praise out of any of them; in fact E1M1 is the single most synonymous level when Doom gets mentioned.

Its the Mario 1-1 of FPS games.

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Posted (edited)

Possibly poorly. The IWADs were the basis for a lot of early PWADs, and those PWADs inspired newer ones. The IWADs have been surpassed in almost every conceivable metric imaginable.

 

To be fair though, the IWADs are inextricably linked to a lot of modern mapping. Doom 1 has its progression and presentation; Doom 2 has its gimmicks and refined gameplay elements; Plutonia with its thematic quality, 'difficulty', and gameplay paradigm; and TNT for something (music maybe?). So you may not necessarily have the same mapping standards in the alternative today you envision.

 

Although I'm still sure that the "alt-Doom 1 vs. alt-Doom 2", "alt-E2M2 is the best!", "alt-Peterson sucks!", and "What if alt-IWADs were released today as alt-PWADs?" discussions would still pop up. 

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If we only had the vanilla engine, they would be received well, I think.

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3 hours ago, Alfonzo said:

*angrily swipes everything off of desk*

Oh get real, you will never emulate id fully! The only reason i support the existance of twid project is to have the cool modern mappers to make a classic vanilla megawad with each other >:)

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They'd be well-liked, but probably not in any serious discussions for Cacowards. 

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Posted (edited)

Then players wouldn't really like them that much compared to them being official IWADs. Doom 1's E1 might still be a favorite, but E2 and E3 would've been poorly received at first and sorta liked later.

Doom 2 wouldn't gain much fans, however.

10 hours ago, Linguica said:

I would love to see a universe where D2TWID was released in 1994 as Doom 2, and alternate-universe-D2TWID later was released featuring the actual Doom 2 levels, just to see what people would say about them.

Then comments about it would be like: "Why does it look like that these levels look more basic and plays easier than the official IWADS?"

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I think they would've been received pretty well. Vanilla wads are still a cool thing :D

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They'll get praised just like Romero's recent map release. 

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1 hour ago, Pegg said:

They'll get praised just like Romero's recent map release. 

 

That raises the question: is the level of praise received subjectively related to whom released them?

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Lots of philosophical questions being raised here.

 

If the IWAD maps were released as PWADs... the gameplay still holds so I guess they would be well received. Maybe even get a cacoward. However, they probably wouldn't be in 9th or 10th place if they did get a cacoward.

 

However, Doom 2 would get the shaft because it will lose some of the impact it has. For example, seeing the SSG for the first time, presentation of new monsters in MAP07, watching a Cybie and a SM kill eachother for the first time, monsters who are deadly for their "healing" abilities like the archvile and the PE, monsters you can't beat by circle-strafing alone like the revenant and finally, the Icon of Sin.

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I feel like doom.wad would be pretty well received as a classic style mapset, especially E1. There are some maps that people would definitely not enjoy if released today (e.g. E3M1) but overall I think it would be pretty well liked.

 

Doom2.wad would be seen as pretty good too. The level design is a bit more gimmicky, so I think it would be a bit more love-it or hate-it. However, I actually think some of the maps people dislike would actually be more liked if released nowadays due to presenting some unique ideas. Imagine if nobody had ever done "The Chasm" and you came across the idea in a modern megawad. What an interesting gameplay idea nobody has done before!

 

TNT.WAD would not go over very well. Evilution is definitely a product of its time and was good for that, but (in my opinion) it has not aged well at all. There's some good maps but the amount of maps that are only okay (or worse) would completely kill the mapset if it were released today. Even stuff like the night sky, which was probably really cool at the time, would just be seen as ugly.

 

Plutonia would definitely get the highest praise out of any of the IWADS if it came out today. Plutonia has for a long time been seen as a standard for gameplay and level design, and that would definitely push it above any of the others. Almost all of the maps still look good and play well. It's the closest that any of the IWADs come to what people expect from a modern mapset, so I feel it would earn the highest ratings.

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On 4/6/2018 at 1:53 AM, Linguica said:

I would love to see a universe where D2TWID was released in 1994 as Doom 2, and alternate-universe-D2TWID later was released featuring the actual Doom 2 levels, just to see what people would say about them.

 

Since creating alternative universes is hard (I think?) a more feasible and still interesting experiment would be to introduce Doom to someone without ever showing them the original levels. Start from the top Cacoward winners and after a year or so introduce the originals.

 

Here's one such experiment (n=1) done with video games in general: https://medium.com/message/playing-with-my-son-e5226ff0a7c3

Quote

What happens when a 21st-century kid plays through video game history in chronological order?

 

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Part of what makes Doom 2 so great is the decent amount of well-designed new monsters, interesting map ideas, new linedef types, new textures. If someone released it was a 'PWAD', the graphics alone would make it a standout release. The titlepic and music is top-notch, these are areas most pwads are nowhere near as good at.

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