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Doomkid

Watch me Struggle: Attempting to use Old DOOM Map Editors!

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Posted (edited)

I'm guessing that what Deth meant by "enter game" is physically insert the doom2 floppy disc into the computer? Thats the only thing I can really assume it means since i don't think you can have more than 1 program open at a time in dos (then again I was born in 95 and have extremely little dos experience so I don't really know for sure, i'm just guessing)

 

edit: for DEU I think you needed to type DEU\go32.exe DEU.EXE, because I noticed in the help text the syntax is go32.exe [-d debugger] [program] meaning if you want to run DEU you would omit the -d part and just type the program name which I guess *should* launch it.

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Do you try WadEd in this?  That's the only classic Doom editor I ever had.

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Didn't someone take the original DoomEd source code when it was released and compile a version of that that could be run in a NextStep emulator? Maybe you should have used that since that was the original program used to make the iwads :)

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I would recommend DeePsea for a keyboard smashing exercise in absolute frustration. That's what I cut my teeth on and it was ... painful. My favourite* bug was when I would open a map and the editor would have moved every single vertex to a random location. 

 

*I mean hated with the heat of a thousand suns.

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I remember old times when I tried to making maps. It was Yadex Map Editor (predecessor of Eureka Editor) on Linux machine.

Even it's been without 3D mode, this editor seemed to me advanced enough.

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35 minutes ago, riderr3 said:

I remember old times when I tried to making maps. It was Yadex Map Editor (predecessor of Eureka Editor) on Linux machine.

Even it's been without 3D mode, this editor seemed to me advanced enough.

I've tried to start making a fork of Eureka since the development is going reeeeallly slowly (if at all, the last update was over a year ago). But since I'm a relatively inexperienced programmer I'm having issues with the setup process, especially with figuring out what sort of format the dependencies (zlib and fltk) need to be in... could anyone who is better at coding than me give me some tips on how to handle these larger sized projects? I am using mingw/g++ with MSYS shell atm but also have Code Blocks that I can use too

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For the DOS programs, use the CD command to change directory to the directory (now called a folder) where the program is, before running it. Then, it will have a better chance of working.

 

Doomcad is a 16-bit Windows program designed for Windows 3.1, so it requires Windows, but it will not run in 64-bit Windows. If you can get a 32-bit Windows running (or Windows 3.1 in DosBox), it should be able to run DoomCad, which is what I used in the 90s, after trying and not liking DEU and WadEd. In DoomCad, you first place the vertices where you want them, and then you connect the dots to make the sector. I thought DoomCad was great ... until I tried Doom Builder.

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3 hours ago, guitardz said:

Do you try WadEd in this?  That's the only classic Doom editor I ever had.

 

Same here...and then tried one that came with a strategy guide...and then WadAuthor like 9 years later 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, therektafire said:

I'm guessing that what Deth meant by "enter game" is physically insert the doom2 floppy disc into the computer?

 

Nah, as someone who used DETH up until some time in 2012, I can guarantee that's not it.  Most likely DoomKid missed some steps in configuration and DETH couldn't work out what game he was trying to edit.  Properly configured-DETH should not be asking that question.  It should just drop you to a command line where you can type, IIRC, "c 01" for "create a new level in map01" 

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5 hours ago, Bridgeburner56 said:

I would recommend DeePsea for a keyboard smashing exercise in absolute frustration. That's what I cut my teeth on and it was ... painful. My favourite* bug was when I would open a map and the editor would have moved every single vertex to a random location. 

 

*I mean hated with the heat of a thousand suns.


Lol the first editor I tried WAS DeePsea and it looked so daunting I was for sure figuring I'd simply never make a WAD for this game. Thank fuck for the Builder series of editors!

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3 hours ago, cyan0s1s said:


Lol the first editor I tried WAS DeePsea and it looked so daunting I was for sure figuring I'd simply never make a WAD for this game. Thank fuck for the Builder series of editors!

I was very late to Doombuilder. Doombuilder 2 was out by the time I discovered it. I didn't consider looking for a open source editor to use for a long time. A friend and I actually paid for the full version of DeePsea and much to our surprise we got it. I shit you not we were mailed, not emailed, physically mailed, all the way to New Zealand from God knows where a 3 1/4 inch floppy disk with the full version .exe on it all. Such quality

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3 hours ago, Doomkid said:

It's so strange, there didn't seem to be any installer or anything in the zip - I just tried to run the EXE and got errors instantly. I'll get all this kind of stuff ironed out before getting stuck into part 2, my real desire here was to actually show a bit of functionality off.

 

Did you edit DETH.INI and DOOM2.CFG at all?  Because you need to :)  INSTALL.TXT has instructions.

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7 hours ago, GhoulDesecrator said:

Nice video, but not oldschool enough. Go binary or go home.

Your comment reminds me of one of the Dilbert comic strips.

 

Senior Engineer: "Back in my day, we didn't have all these fancy windows. All we had were 0's and 1's. And sometimes we didn't even have 1's. I wrote an entire database using only 0's."

Dilbert: "You had 0's? I had to use o."

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12 hours ago, Ex Oblivione said:

This is gonna be a blockbuster!

 

  Reveal hidden contents

giphy.gif

 

@Doomkid I enjoyed the video immensely. It's too bad you couldn't get the older DOS-based editors working. I'm looking forward to the second installment where you do get them up and running.

 

I was looking forward to seeing DCK again. That's what I started with back in the 1994 and I don't remember it being so bad. It even had an auto-align feature. At least, when it was freeware, prior to becoming crippled shareware, I remember liking it much more than DEU.

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Very nice one.

 

I remember using DEU for DOS creating my very first map. I also used DeepSea later on. Maybe you should try using the DOS-editors on real hardware (if possible).

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Disappointed you didn't get EdMap running. It definitely works in DOSbox.

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deth/zeth you probably won't get anywhere without a manual on hand, it's pretty horrid in terms of intuitiveness, but certainly a capable editor. That said, it'll make you love the quality of life improvements of the modern scene ;-)

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There are some decent DEU instruction guides around the place, and pretty much everything in them applies to DETH; DETH just has more features on top of it.

 

Once you know the basics, though, some of the bells and whistles become a lot easier to work out, since you've got menus to look them up in, and such.

 

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Now i have flashbacks to the first time i stumbled on this place and downloaded a bunch of editors like DMapEdit, Zeth Deth, DEU and even WadAuthor were i just didn't understood anything untill i stumbled on DeepSea, the only editor that i understood, hehe

Hope there's a 2nd part were you tackle more editors, you could try to run the OG DoomED on a VM, it would be an interesting thing to see, nice vid

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Posted (edited)

Real cool vid dude! Funny to watch you clutz around in DOS, lol. I wouldn't be any better these days! Looking forward to the next installment. I largely used DETH to make my Master Levels and Eternal Doom maps btw, DEU (& early ML versions) for some of the Cabal stuff. Very first map was pieced together by a crashing nightmare I don't think is around anymore - a Windows editor that I don't think ever left beta - also called "DoomEd". You did have "create map" highlit at one point in DEU btw, but quickly moused over it!

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Posted (edited)

DCK can definitely run on DosBox, I've done it before.

 

C5nVau8.png

 

Important thing to keep in mind: It'll ask you about video drivers on the first run. Select VESA Driver, and then pick a resolution. It'll then ask you where all your games reside, fill those out and you should be good to go.

 

I'm also trying to see if I can get DMapEdit working in DosBox, since I have a bit of a fondness for legacy editors myself.

 

EDIT: semi related, did DCK ever get the freeware treatment similar to what WadAuthor had gotten recently? Would be nice to have the full version for historic reasons, though the shareware version is pretty much fully capable for level editing.

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