DOOM: Annihilation - the new Doom movie

[NBH]

From Doom movie official twitter

My thoughts exactly

[DooM_RO]

@Quasar

 

There is a difference between "so bad it's good" and "so bad you wanna tear your eyes out"

[Linguica]

Here is one of the first ever posts about the Doom comic on the Doomworld forums:

 

On 1/30/2001 at 8:22 PM, Zaldron said:

You know, when I saw that comic for the first time, I (OMG) tought it was cool. Wait, don´t flame/punch/kill/stab/kick me, after a few pages things got reeeaally crappy...

You´ll see, the first thing I looked was the drawings. They were mostly OK, nothing really admirable, and sometimes weird perspective errors showed up.
The second thing I realized (and the most important), was the whole comic plot and characters.

If you just look at the first page of the comic, you could easily explain the Marine´s behavior : He was filled with adrenaline.

But after realizing that the Marine´s swear-machine attitude continued along all the comic, the truth was revealed, it was a big pile of shit. It had no drama, no believable characters, it didn´t had that anti-hero feeling of modern comics.

A really poor example of DooM merchandise, I hope that the supposedly DooM movie in production can handle this...

[Caffeine Freak]

27 minutes ago, Quasar said:

People thought it was terrible 25 years ago (citation: I was there). Until it was included in the id Anthology as a bonus, nobody even knew about it for the most part. If standards have evolved, then it has been toward looking at that psychedelic-drugs-inspired schlock in a more friendly light than before, as it's now become a massive Internet meme and gets such official acknowledgment:

 

But now you're now talking about the influence of *art and visual styles* from the Doom comic and how they influenced the latest game. Your initial post (and my response to it) had strictly to do with *dialogue.* Acting and delivery holds a place in movies that is absent from comic books, due to the nature of the two mediums. People hold different standards for dialogue in a movie, especially when it's poorly delivered. 

 

Secondly, what relevance does the comic even have here? You're acting like all the people who complained about the acting in the trailer are all fans of the comic book, or have even read the damn thing. Bad acting is something people notice, and there isn't some double standard in pointing it out, regardless of one's feelings about a comic.

[Quasar]

5 minutes ago, Caffeine Freak said:

Acting and delivery holds a place in movies that is absent from comic books, due to the nature of the two mediums. People hold different standards for dialogue in a movie, especially when it's poorly delivered.

I agree, that's reasonable. But...

6 minutes ago, Caffeine Freak said:

Secondly, what relevance does the comic even have here? You're acting like all the people who complained about the acting in the trailer are all fans of the comic book, or have even read the damn thing.

It's more how many people seem to be calling for something directly inspired by it. 100% all-the-time ultraviolence, machoism, all the bits. There's no way a "Doom 2016" movie would be anything but the Doom comic with perhaps less one-liner dialogue, in my opinion. And that's simply something I'm: A. not interested in personally and B. do not want to see supplanting this earnest attempt at illustrating the original game's backstory, where you're just an ordinary marine thrust into what should be a hopeless situation, but prove to be a survivor against all odds.

 

It's the same reason I'm hoping id is going to keep ties to the original series somewhere in their new canon for the games, because if you're no longer that guy - if they're going to invalidate the narrative of "you" being the marine and require you to identify with some stereotypical "he's angry because they took his <whatever>" narrative - I will lose interest forever.

[rodster]

3 hours ago, ArchangelOfHell said:

The outpouring of negativity is downright disgusting, I read most of the twitter replies and reddit garbage.. not impressed by the community other than doomworld" I can understand some bitching.. it's just going to far now. Like beating the dead horse and burning its fucking ashes. As a DOOM fan I couldn't be any more happy with Eternal on its way. However Now let's destroy every fucking one associated with this new film.. death threats to the guys family for crying out loud.. that's real class. Believe me when I say this No One deserves the kind of shit spewed at Tony and the cast, that being said I believe this was suppose to be another "fun" doom film, obviously the female cast isn't suiting well.. still Ill watch the movie. Just don't expect me to join in on the gang rape.

Besides that, the actually set design looks good, the imp looking demon was cool. I still would like to see some good come out of this. If it's possible at this time.

Well, I have come to the conclusion that Reddit and Twitter are mostly toxic. 

 

It's like one of those heavy toxic waste maps, you don't have a suite but you have to avoid all that toxic stuff to not get ill. 

[Caffeine Freak]

5 minutes ago, Quasar said:

It's more how many people seem to be calling for something directly inspired by it. 100% all-the-time ultraviolence, machoism, all the bits. There's no way a "Doom 2016" movie would be anything but the Doom comic with perhaps less one-liner dialogue, in my opinion. And that's simply something I'm: A. not interested in personally and B. do not want to see supplanting this earnest attempt at illustrating the original game's backstory, where you're just an ordinary marine thrust into what should be a hopeless situation, but prove to be a survivor against all odds.

 

Fair enough. I think perhaps what you're talking about (the number of people who want a Doom 2016 movie) may well have to do with the number of younger Doom fans who were only recently introduced to the series, and whose first taste of Doom was Doom 2016. To them, that impression and take on Doom is just as sacred and embedded in their minds as the text screens from Doom I and II are ingrained on older fans like you and myself.

 

Someone else touched on this as well, but part of the problem with a Doom movie is that Doom essentially spans three generations of gamers at this point: there's people like me whose introduction was classic Doom, there's people (usually also in my age range) who were first introduced via Doom 3, and there's the newer fans who were introduced via the last installment. All three of those are significantly different takes on the story, and each one is going to be equally sacred to a different selection of gamers. With that being said, I recognize the filmmakers are between a rock and a hard place, and going with ANY of those three approaches to the movie would necessitate disappointing a large chunk of the fan base. This wouldn't have been true if they were making the movie 10 or 20 years ago, but at this point, it really is a case of 'damned if you do, damned if you don't.'

[Noiser]

8 hours ago, Gez said:

Doom is not a serious franchise. I mean have you actually looked at the game itself? Doomguy's quest to avenge Daisy, Romero's head on a stick, the pain elemental's goofy little imp arms, the mancubus' death gurgle, the FIREBLU texture, the revenant's signature AAAAAA scream and whoop-ass punch, the big spider mastermind standing just inside a crusher on MAP08?

And the Chainsaw, do not forget the Chainsaw...

The thing is, Doom (the game) is already a parody of movie tropes - with references from Aliens, Evil Dead or even Star Wars. But it didn't fall into a hole of cliches because it is self-aware about it. This is why it's so difficult to make a good Doom movie: You can't turn a parody with barely any storytelling into something serious without getting ridiculous at one point.

[ArchangelOfHell]

When I look back at the trailer, I realize now its really the audio that killed it for most. The first 15 seconds, when you hear phobos is under attack and some demon screaming etc is all good, then the remaining zombie scenes just seemed like some resident evil scene, I understand. And The die die die part was a poor choice to include in this one 30 second segment, seeing as your have no idea what let up to that cheese, so a poor trailer doesn't always do a full movie justice. Anyway, hopefully the director takes notes, and maybe shows a full 3 minute segment? would clear up some directing sights so to speak? Anyone agree?

 

Things that I ENJOYED - 

The spaceship

The phobos landscape

the set design

the imp looking demon

 

Negatives - 

DIEDIEDIE

poor scene choices

Should have had more of a build up

Semi cheese lines

[IMX]

3 hours ago, wheresthebeef said:

• Keanu Reeves
• Ryan Gosling

 

And we still see their face. And that's my point, the face is everything in most action movies from Hollywood. The only exception being shows like the Power Rangers where ultimately it's the spandex suit fighting that sells and not the actors.

 

Even in the first PR movie from the 90s they were supposed to be wearing faceless helmets until one of the actors pointed out how the kids would hate that design because they were accustomed to watch them without seeing their faces while being on the suit.

 

3 hours ago, Pegg said:

His face is visible in the first 3 games..

 

And in two of them is just the HUD. In-game he's always hearing a helmet. And let's be honest, the face in the third one looks like crap.

 

2 hours ago, Quasar said:

People thought [the Doom comic] was terrible 25 years ago (citation: I was there).

 

Not until 8-7 years ago people thought the Doom comic was absolute garbage. But hey, times sure do change and now there's people willing to go to bat for it. Wonder what happened during that time...

[dew]

9 hours ago, DooM_RO said:

It is absurd and intolerable because of the acting.

Ever seen The Last Boyscout?

 

6 minutes ago, IMX said:

And we still see their face. And that's my point, the face is everything in most action movies from Hollywood. The only exception being shows like the Power Rangers where ultimately it's the spandex suit fighting that sells and not the actors.

Ever seen Dredd?

[wheresthebeef]

19 minutes ago, IMX said:

And we still see their face. And that's my point, the face is everything in most action movies from Hollywood. The only exception being shows like the Power Rangers where ultimately it's the spandex suit fighting that sells and not the actors.

 

It really wouldn't be hard to make a Doom movie where the Doomguy/marine/slayer/whatever not only never speaks but also whose face/body is never seen and instead is always behind armor. All you have to do is not make him the only character and have any plot/dialogue spoken through other characters. Don't center the movie around him but make him very important to it. Think Jason from Friday the 13th.

[Soundblock]

2 hours ago, ArchangelOfHell said:

Things that I ENJOYED - 

 

 

Yeah, +for me, the "they openen up a portal to hell" line :)

[Man of Doom]

1 hour ago, dew said:

Ever seen The Last Boyscout?

 

It's actually even more hilarious because I remember in an extended interview with Noclip, Hugo Martin actually cited that movie specifically to help establish Doom 2016's somewhat self-aware tone.

 

1 hour ago, wheresthebeef said:

It really wouldn't be hard to make a Doom movie where the Doomguy/marine/slayer/whatever not only never speaks but also whose face/body is never seen and instead is always behind armor.

 

1 hour ago, dew said:

Ever seen Dredd?

 

This is actually why I think (at least in theory) that a Doom movie with an actual depiction of Doomguy could work (and you even make him both mute and faceless). As long as you communicate through visuals rather than exposition that this character is in fact as the Doomguy, just put him in that familiar-looking green armor and you should be good to go. Plus, a compelling Doom-related story should help too.

[Quasar]

58 minutes ago, Soundblock said:

 

Yeah, +for me, the "they openen up a portal to hell" line :)

That part and the scene of somebody screaming with black liquid running down their face gave me a teensy bit of an Event Horizon vibe, which would not be bad at all IMO.

[Caffeine Freak]

12 minutes ago, Man of Doom said:

This is actually why I think (at least in theory) that a Doom movie with an actual depiction of Doomguy could work (and you even make him both mute and faceless). As long as you communicate through visuals rather than exposition that this character is in fact as the Doomguy, just put him in that familiar-looking green armor and you should be good to go. Plus, a compelling Doom-related story should help too.

 

I would agree that a faceless, mute Doomguy would be possible, but it would be extremely tricky to execute well. Dredd worked as a character with his face half covered, but his mouth was visible thrughout the movie, and he was by no means mute. For another similar example, take Bane from TDKR. His mouth was covered, but he wasn't mute and his eyes were always shown. With a faceless mute Doomguy, you're stripping all of that away and you'd be essentially limited to body language *alone*, which would require an exceptionally skilled actor to convey, assuming the film makers actually wanted him to be a character, and not simply a plot device.

[LadyVader1138]

16 hours ago, DooM_RO said:

Really? Give me some examples.

One of the best I can think of is Summer Glau in The Sarah Conner Chronicles. She is of a similar size and build to Amy Manson and yet was able to feel equal to many much larger men throughout the show.

[Mr. Freeze]

2 hours ago, dew said:

Ever seen Dredd?

 

The Dredd movie that underperformed at the box office? That's the main comparison for a potential Doom movie? 

[OliveTree]

On 3/12/2019 at 1:11 PM, seed said:

Let's not take the "if you think it sucks, do something better by yourself" approach (if I read the post correctly, apologies if I'm misunderstanding your words).

 

Sorry for coming at this late, but the argument isnt "go make a movie if you want to criticize movies" its saying "your ideas are great and all but at some point they have to be made and on a budget of this size you can't have everything. Idealism and practicality are different things here."

[OliveTree]

I'm so genuinely confused by the response to this. The like to dislike ratio right now is completely insane, I can't fathom such a strong negative reaction to what is on its face an amazing trailer for what looks to me like the perfect doom film. It doesn't even have 1k likes. This! It's really upsetting, honestly. Everything about this is amazing I've watched this trailer like 30 times. Every single shot is better than I could've expected. That demon closeup, the tacky rubber suit it has, the shot where it jankily slides out in the background, "they've opened up a portal to hell". that barrel exploding, "DIE DIE DIE", the lighting of the dark shots, the set design, the squad, fuck I love this squad. Call me really simple but shots of a squad with beflashlighted rifles poking around a dark, empty facility fills me a particular doom-like giddiness.

 

How do these guys fit into the lore? Who will be the 'true' doom marine? Is this squad the squad that gets killed in the instruction manual of the first game? I don't fucking know, and why on earth would I care?? The experience of Doom is a moment to moment experience. Rusty corridors and bloody bullets, baby. I don't give a single shit about the backstory or the canon or the power fantasy of the specific dude, like real talk who cares about that specific dude, fuck that dude. Let's not fetishize a self-insert protagonist here please. Trying to stroke off the 'doom marine' is essentially just masturbation. When it comes down to what really matters, what really captures the experience of playing classic doom?

 

A squad poking around an abandoned facility with beflashlighted rifles--demons and zombies around every corner. They're only mission? Not die.

 

Hell yeah.

[wheresthebeef]

1 hour ago, Mr. Freeze said:

 

The Dredd movie that underperformed at the box office? That's the main comparison for a potential Doom movie? 

 

Well considering the first Doom movie underperformed too I'd say its par for the course...

Dredd did make back its budget and then some when it came out on DVD and Bluray and it's also pretty well regarded. I think that movies biggest issue was the terrible marketing leading up to it.

Even then, I wouldn't consider a movie's quality directly relatable to it's success. Venom made damn near a billion dollars, for instance. Or look at the Transformers movies.

 

Or hell, look at any Adam Sandler movie.

[DefilerPhil47]

1 hour ago, EtherBot said:

I'm so genuinely confused by the response to this. The like to dislike ratio right now is completely insane, I can't fathom such a strong negative reaction to what is on its face an amazing trailer for what looks to me like the perfect doom film. It doesn't even have 1k likes. This! It's really upsetting, honestly. Everything about this is amazing I've watched this trailer like 30 times. Every single shot is better than I could've expected. That demon closeup, the tacky rubber suit it has, the shot where it jankily slides out in the background, "they've opened up a portal to hell". that barrel exploding, "DIE DIE DIE", the lighting of the dark shots, the set design, the squad, fuck I love this squad. Call me really simple but shots of a squad with beflashlighted rifles poking around a dark, empty facility fills me a particular doom-like giddiness.

 

How do these guys fit into the lore? Who will be the 'true' doom marine? Is this squad the squad that gets killed in the instruction manual of the first game? I don't fucking know, and why on earth would I care?? The experience of Doom is a moment to moment experience. Rusty corridors and bloody bullets, baby. I don't give a single shit about the backstory or the canon or the power fantasy of the specific dude, like real talk who cares about that specific dude, fuck that dude. Let's not fetishize a self-insert protagonist here please. Trying to stroke off the 'doom marine' is essentially just masturbation. When it comes down to what really matters, what really captures the experience of playing classic doom?

 

A squad poking around an abandoned facility with beflashlighted rifles--demons and zombies around every corner. They're only mission? Not die.

 

Hell yeah.

 

You are the most enthusiastic person in this thread about this movie.  Doom 3 did a similar thing with the flashlight and an abandoned/haunted/hell demon spawn filled facility and you had to not die, yet people still shit all over Doom 3 for years.

[Chezza]

@EtherBot The scene you describe with the marines and flashlights likely to die reminds me of a cinematic sequence in Doom 3 where a squad of marines gets ambushed by imps.

 

This is perhaps your take on the Doom experience while mine would be notably different. Granted in the lore I know plenty of that scene happened in all Dooms. Personally I believe either a brave marine facing more than he can chew or an enraged space marine causing more carnage than hell itself would pay better tribute and suit the Doom world rather than a squad of space swat dying one by one yelling generic battle quotes.

 

 

[Beezle]

Good point Dragonfly, that trailer wasn't very good but it was VERY brief. Hardly any movie footage was used. Let's hope it'll at least be worth watching.

[dew]

5 hours ago, Mr. Freeze said:

The Dredd movie that underperformed at the box office? That's the main comparison for a potential Doom movie? 

Oh, I've been very vocal about this over the years, you just haven't been paying attention. Dredd is a great, fantastically entertaining cult movie. I'd rather have one Doom movie in its image than 420 Fast & Furious-style box office hits. This movie is going to blow at the box office AND will most likely be pretty bad, so why the hell wouldn't I want at least one of the two failures remedied?

 

Oh and if you're gonna snark me, you will have to do it properly. The Last Boyscout bombed in the cinemas and only became a rental cult classic over time. Both of my examples were of movies that did what someone said shouldn't be done, not of recipes for getting rich. Reading comprehension is not easy to find in this thread though.

[Mordeth]

I've removed @ArchangelOfHell's twitter drama and related posts. This thread is cringy enough already.

[ArchangelOfHell]

Rgr that, wasn't trying to be. I understand your position and respect that. Well, unto the movie. Now I'd imagine the director making some serious decisions in the coming week/weeks/ either showing better new content, or delaying the living hell out of this in hopes to pull a win after ungodly editing skills, possibly. I was hoping to see the trailer turn out better as just a fan of all things doom, not this movie or cast per say. I wonder how tony will react in the coming weeks, most likely feels some resent I'd imagine..

[seed]

Considering all the backlash the movie has received, I'd say it's entirely possible some things will be changed before showing us more, or before the release, but I don't expect them to do a full 180 or something like that.

 

This is why we can't have nice things...

[DooM_RO]

2 hours ago, seed said:

Considering all the backlash the movie has received, I'd say it's entirely possible some things will be changed before showing us more, or before the release, but I don't expect them to do a full 180 or something like that.

 

This is why we can't have nice things...

 

Nice things? It wasn't nice to begin with. What is "nice" about it? The terribad acting? The sci-fi environment that is obviously a rented factory with a bit of paint and smoke in it? The cheap plastic walls with fake-looking blood on them? The generic imp design? What is nice about it? This is a trailer, it is meant to show us some of the best parts of the movie so we will want more.  Why would they show the worst scenes and keep the rest for the full movie? That kinda defeats the purpose of a trailer. 

 

There's no need to be a fanboy. If it has the "Doom" logo on it then people should expect the best possible product. This is just a cynical move by Universal so they can hold on to the rights and cash in on the release of Doom Eternal using the lowest possible budget. They don't care if the movie is good or bad. 

Edited March 14, 2019 by DooM_RO

[TheUltimateDoomer666]

They're trying, to a degree.  The external shot of the base reminiscent of the intermission screen is nice.  Blowing up barrels to attack monsters/zombies is nice.  Chainsaw is nice.