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spd7693

Strange linedef behavior

Question

Hello, everybody! 

So far I had nothing to post here, but this time I really do. Recently I started making a Wad. I already posted my first map in another thread, but I'll anyways put it here too. Warning! Low quality! 

 

 

So, what's the matter? 

 

I fixed the problem of the peep hole in the blue key area as monsters were able to shoot through it, as well as the cyberdemon always teleported last in. Still I'm trying to make it better as well. The problem is this - I've made three linedefs with the action W1 floor raise to lowest ceiling. They raise the sector which blocks off the teleporter, which is the one the linedefs are closing. As you see in the map, the switch behind the mancubus in the area must unblock the teleporter. However, after the switch is flipped I can cross the second linedef with the same tag and action and the teleporter will close off again! This is not supposed to happen. So, the question is how to make the linedefs exclude each other? Like when one W1 floor raise to lowest ceiling is activated, the others with the same tag and action should have no action any longer. Like that I can't seal myself in the area and never come to the end. Except if I make the switch repetitive, but this will look very much like... builder work. 

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That's just how the doom engine works. W1 actions are specific to the linedef, not the tag - that is to say the ability to activate the linedef is disabled after crossing any linedefs with that tag. The tag is never disabled and you can do varying things with it like have a sector raise, be usable as a lift, and be a teleport destination all at once. If you only want a sector to move once, don't point multiple W1 linedefs at it.

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Posted (edited)

So I've screwed the things up then. Same things occurs in my 5th map. I've made platforms that raise in the way they raise in Containment Area and The Factory, but since they criss-cross in order to make the room doable both ways, I needed to make two of them activate from two different angles. One can be avoided this way, but for the other I'll need to think it out. I can redo that area and make the moving platforms work a bit better. 

 

I've edited the map a bit as well and there are a bit more flaws I fixed. Like the way the platform the red key is on goes to the ground. Now with two moves and two linedefs - just like the ones I explained - both the switch and the platform now disappear into the poison and make the player take damage. 

Edited by spd7693

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I have more questions about another thing I've done. This is from my newest map that I just started. Well, here it is: 

 

2018-04-29.png.78778ff84c9e7faf21d64d1a136c92b1.png

 

The hexagon in the middle has to work the following way: On the northeastern and the Southwestern side it has to act as a door. But on the northwestern and the southeastern side it's supposed to act as an elevator. This way I want to create a crossing. The problem is that the "elevator" works, but the "door" doesn't. All linedefs face the correct way as you see. How am I supposed to fix this? I'll try a bit more anyways. 

 

Where have we seen such things: Doom 2 map 15 Industrial Zone - the path to the blue door and the regular exit - in Memento Mori map 31 in a crossing of a certain place and in one more map, I forgot if it was from the Master Levels or in Memento Mori again. (As well as in Eternal Doom map 4, but it's not a good example.) However, in all of them the area is a square (or sort of one). Here I have a hexagon. Is it possible anyways? 

 

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Posted (edited)

I have more questions about another thing I've done. This is from my newest map that I just started. Well, here it is: 

 

2018-04-29.png.78778ff84c9e7faf21d64d1a136c92b1.png

 

The hexagon in the middle has to work the following way: On the northeastern and the Southwestern side it has to act as a door. But on the northwestern and the southeastern side it's supposed to act as an elevator. This way I want to create a crossing. The problem is that the "elevator" works, but the "door" doesn't. All linedefs face the correct way as you see. How am I supposed to fix this? I'll try a bit more anyways. 

 

Where have we seen such things: Doom 2 map 15 Industrial Zone - the path to the blue door and the regular exit - in Memento Mori map 31 in a crossing of a certain place and in one more map, I forgot if it was from the Master Levels or in Memento Mori again. (As well as in Eternal Doom map 4, but it's not a good example.) However, in all of them the area is a square (or sort of one). Here I have a hexagon. Is it possible anyways? 

 

I don't see any reason why it shouldn't work. Upload your wad, or an excerpt with just the relevant parts. You can upload it right here in a post in the forum. Then, we can find out what is going wrong.

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Posted (edited)

There came more problems, so I'm trying to save it separately and post it here, but somehow another problem occurred. Now I can't save the nodes of the map. So, the map is ready to be zipped, but there are no nodes. Why could have that happened? Have I made it too big? I remember that while creating it I touched the top end of the Doom Builder grid. And I'm not sure if it's OK like that. 

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You'll have to make small gaps in sectors 3 and 1 to make the door moving up
APQ9rmp.jpg

Otherwise you can use W1 ceiling raise action, and it works even without gaps
XxEcpxy.jpg

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Sectors 3 and 1... You mean the northwestern and the southeastern side? Also I need repetitive, not single actions. Otherwise the crossing wouldn't be as authentic, no matter if you try walking it both ways only once. But thanks for the advice, I just work better with directions, not sector numbers. 

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Those gaps are needed because the door will try to open up to the lowest ceiling. The gaps make sure that the lowest ceiling is high enough that the door can open. If you make those gaps only 1 unit thick, the player will not notice them.

 

This basic idea is clever enough that I might steal borrow it for some map I make in the future.

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Posted (edited)

@Empyre You wouldn't really "steal" it because like I said we already have seen such a thing in Doom before, but with square sectors. Even in iD Doom - Industrial Zone, on the way to the blue door and the regular exit. 

 

I figured the gaps will be needed, but still didn't understand - should I make them where the sector acts as a door or where it acts as an elevator? 

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1 hour ago, spd7693 said:

@Empyre You wouldn't really "steal" it because like I said we already have seen such a thing in Doom before, but with square sectors. Even in iD Doom - Industrial Zone, on the way to the blue door and the regular exit. 

 

I figured the gaps will be needed, but still didn't understand - should I make them where the sector acts as a door or where it acts as an elevator? 

Add the gaps to the sides that act like a lift, with the ceilings of the gaps the same height as the ceilings of the sides that use the sector as a door. That way, all the ceilings next to the sector will be the same height, so it will be able to open like a door.

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Same map, another problem: 

 

 

 

2018-05-11.png.3bbb7b0fdfb30bb4b66655c2d04398d9.png

 

This cacodemon sees the player... 

 

 

613750154_2018-05-11(1).png.e9110917cd94e0a2a5aaeaedbd4f9ef0.png

 

...Whenever (s)he gets to the western end of the box maze. This is not supposed to happen. The cacodemon is supposed to see the player only if (s)he gets around this lava pit and gets towards the other parts of the demolished street. I've made him deaf by default and tried placing him everywhere in the pit. Every time he would see the player. While if I put him with his back turned, he'll never see the player which also is not supposed to happen. How to fix it? 

 

Here's the map: Map 6 - Still Unnamed.zip (Warning - not finished yet.) 

 

PS: Will someone tell me via PM how to hide my content? 

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Probably the best way to make it so that caco doesn't see the player too early is to hide him in a rather deep pit and when the player drops onto the street, to have a linedef action rise the pit, revealing the caco.

 

Also, the little eye symbol on the task bar of the post draft window is the "spoiler" button. You can place your images in it and when you post, it'll have that "reveal hidden contents" tab that will reveal whatever you put in it (text, images, videos, etc). It's useful for condensing your posts.

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Posted (edited)

When a monster has the Ambush flag (Deaf is a bad name for it), it will have a 360 degree field of view, seeing the player in any direction no matter what direction it is facing. Aquila Chrysaetos's pit idea is a good idea.

 

Another idea would to use sound-blocking lines instead of the Ambush (Deaf) flag. Remember, to block sound, there needs to be not one but two sound-blocking lines along any possible path that sound could travel. In this case, make the diagonal line at the edge of the lava sound-blocking and also the nearby vertical line at the exit from the box maze. If you then uncheck the "Deaf" flag, the cacodemon should only see you when you expect it to. If there is any way for sound to go around via either of the openings I see at the north wall of the maze, those need sound blocking lines too, or the caco will hear you. As far as the monsters are concerned, it doesn't matter how far away you are or how many corners the sound has to go around. If there is a path for the sound, they can hear you.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Empyre said:

When a monster has the Ambush flag (Deaf is a bad name for it), it will have a 360 degree field of view, seeing the player in any direction no matter what direction it is facing.

Only after they are alerted by the player, otherwise they still initially have 90 degree sight. Once alerted by sound they remain asleep, but with a 360 view and will awaken once they sight the player. The name deaf came from the fact that they didn't do anything until they sighted the player, unlike other monsters.

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