The DWmegawad Club plays: 99 Ways to Die & Troopers' Playground & Talosian Incident

[tmorrow]

2 hours ago, Spectre01 said:

Also, did anyone manage to open that alcove before the "boss brain"? I did everything else, but there were 3 dudes in there that just wouldn't come out.

 

Shoot the console behind the red key in the room north of that hallway. That will lower the corner wall in the hallway so you can wipe out those 2 chain gunners and shotgunguy. You'll pick up 2 boxes of rockets and 2 medikits in there too. This stumped me for quite a while with my uvmax run. Pretty sneaky trick to hide enemies in non secret areas like that.

[gaspe]

MAP05: It has a rather unique mood and it doesn't feel like a Doom map, this time I liked more what John Bye wanted to do with this map, the first time I played it I thought it was a bit boring. The jouenry through those stony hallways until you reach its tech heart was almost charming but I can't point what exactly I thought it wasn't working well. Maybe it's too much spartan? Anyway it's showcased a good exercise in lighting, there was the effort to create rooms with different effects. And I liked that there are optional areas and places to explore that give some character to the setting.

[Capellan]

MAP06

Just in case you didn't get enough of those doors last time, here's another map where you get to open a bunch of the same doors all over again, and then – as a surprise twist – you'll find even more doors! It definitely doesn't make for the free-wheeling action that I believe is what Doom does best.

 

Anyway, this is more of the same from the last map, with the added fun of even more elevated hitscanners to force you to creep forward under cover even more than you already had to.

 

Not thrilled with the last two maps from Mr Bye, and hoping for a change of pace with Malcolm Sailor's return next map.

 

[NuMetalManiak]

Gonna be moving tomorrow, getting these two done right now.

 

MAP05 The Fort I

 

It's not easy to judge this map, especially considering it's a two-parter with the next map being a continuation of this one. It's got an interesting puzzle aspect in it, although most of the puzzles will once again involve secrets. On the other hand, the map is so flat and has too many doors and switches to really justify a fun factor. Combat tries to beef up the enemies a bit, giving an arch-vile and a mancubus among other monsters like Hell knights, but nothing really stands out or ambushes a player. The Romero head replacement is the exit for this map, and looking at it, it's awkward, has parts of a BFG9000 and other weird things in it. Oh well, destroy it and move on to the continuation of this map.

 

MAP06 The Fort II

 

So yes, the device is destroyed, and the "music" is something that just chills you man. But regardless, it's retracing time. A good chunk of the fort structure remains, although a few areas are locked off. I like how Bye attempts to have you remember which enemies you killed in areas that are revisited. Anyways, you know that big room that was a secret in the previous map? Well, although it is still a secret here, let us pay attention to that door, which wasn't usable previously. Now it is, and there's more spelunking to be had. A few areas of interest only, like the chaingunners in the windows as usual, both windows having two switches each. What else, just use them all, mop up whatever enemies are around as two keys and perhaps one more switch is pressed. Then we done.

[Pirx]

On 5/14/2018 at 6:06 AM, TheOrganGrinder said:

MAP03: The Cliff Top Fort

 

I feel like I've got a bit of a soft spot for maligned maps.  I pop into the thread, I skim over what's been posted already, and if I see a level catching flak, there's a part of me that can't help but want to take a contrarian stance.  "Oh," I tell myself, "surely it's not that bad.  Surely there are things to love about it.  Surely there's some value in what it's doing even if it's doing something unconventional."

 

For what it's worth, the mandatory secrets don't particularly bother me here; it's apparent enough, in the circular structures where the blue and yellow keys are found, that there's more going on in both areas than is immediately obvious, with the smooth emptiness of the blue "flying saucer" encouraging further investigation, and the flame atop the yellow key tower likewise inviting the player to ask just what the purpose of the ascent might have been.  On the other hand... yeah, the barrenness of the preceding maps ramps up here in a way that doesn't feel deliberate; I get a sense that the anonymous corridors and bunkers of this level are intended to be engaging, but fall flat.  There are some good ideas here but they're not executed in a way that satisfies.

 

 

you know, i played map03 with this devil's advocate stance again inspired by your post, because i felt i (and other posters) maligned it enough, as it made me run circles when i was tired and not on the mood for this, and to my surprise it has some redeeming qualities. for example, the curved shapes look good in a time when many mappers still built many boxy rooms, and the use of yellow door tracks as lamps came surprising and looked quite good. overall, the stony brown complex under the orange sky looks, again, desolate... and this is where the map takes a turn towards being a puzzle, much like some eternal doom maps: i recognized that silver mushroom immediately although i haven't touched talosian for 20 years, and being so different from the rest, the mushroom should attract the avid explorer, who then finds a way inside... and then into the tower with the flame. and suddenly the obscure progression isn't that obscure any longer, possibly how its author imagined. but the community's beliefs have changed since to thou shalt not make mandatory secrets.  if this was the intended story, it falls victim to the poor execution: bland rooms, boring gameplay, whatever. beginner's mistakes, it seems. so, who knows what dan might have come up with if he just continued mapping.

 

 

 

MAP04 - “The Chapel” by John Bye

 

an underground chapel, complete with organ music and an altar. competently made, a good example of this "satanic chapel" theme, however there's not much in the combat department: some imps as chapel guards, and then the pinkies in the large cavern are only fillers. as for how its abrupt ending, it seems that john bye cut a map in 3 smaller maps, or deliberately built them this way, looking at how the next map starts exactly where the previous one ended. now, one can argue that was not necessary, as bye's 3 maps joined together would not be too large to handle even for a pc from that time, or was it? i like when a mapper uses this continuity trick, but it comes at a wrong moment imo.

 

 

 

MAP05 - “The Fort - I” by John Bye

 

large underground map, something like crawling through kilometers of dungeons, which leads to much of this wolfenstein-like game of "open door, shoot everything inside the room, go to next door". plus backtracking a lot after retrieving a key. i smiled at the description by magnusblitz, it's so true. the map is dark and moody in parts (the mossy stone rooms), then clean rooms that are well lit for no reason, and in the end clashing techbase-like concrete. like someone built that base into the ancient tombs... and then installed some device, a box with antennas. i shot the box, it blew up and killed me, and i thought it's a forced restart for the next map. uh, no, dumbass. those weren't popular yet. you were just standing too close to the box.

 

 

 

MAP06 - “The Fort - II” by John Bye

 

basically you're crawling through the fort I's dungeons in reverse. there's some attention to detail like mirroring rooms from the fort I, and where you killed a demon, there's a spectre now. the static noise in the beginning of the music track is meant to be spooky, but it lasts way too long. this parallel dimension theme can be a cool idea (as shown in revilution's map12 iirc), but here it's like smacking the player over the head twice, because it wasn't bad enough the first time.

 

edit: and the dungeons took certainly far longer than i thought while playing map04.
 

 

Edited May 16, 2018 by Pirx

[Capellan]

15 minutes ago, Pirx said:

i shot the box, it blew up and killed me, and i thought it's a forced restart for the next map. uh, no, dumbass. those weren't popular yet. you were just standing too close to the box.

 

Actually, you weren't standing close enough.  :) Punching or chainsawing it is perfectly safe.  Shooting it runs the risk that you'll be standing where the explosions spawn (320 units south, according to the wiki).

 

 

 

[Magnusblitz]

MAP06: The Fort - II

100% kills, 2/3 secrets

 

Not exactly the map I wanted to replay in reverse, but it feels a bit better than last one because 1) the monsters will wake up and wander around the level, opening several of the doors for you, and 2) more monster density so you can let loose a bit more. Health is doled out like an opiate-prescribing sleazy doctor, so losing a chunk here or there to a bad hitscanner encounter isn't the end of the world. Took me way too long to find what the switch behind the blue door opened up though...

[Aquila Chrysaetos]

MAP06: Disappearing from the Disdainful Dungeon of the Dynamic Doom Doors

GZDoom 2.4.0, UV, continuous, saves

 

No screenshots. I didn't think they'd be necessary.

 

Basically, we're trying to get out of the facility we just exploded because of some reason probably supplied in the story that I did not read. Not terribly exciting. Much more combat-based, you'll be facing tons of hitscanners, so you'd be wise to be taking it slowly here, lest you be beset upon by a chaingunner pair and get completely eviscerated. Health is common in this level, so you shouldn't need to worry too much about it. The doors, however, are still extremely common. The world's door reserves must've run out after this map was finished, too.

 

I haven't much to say beyond this map is even more confusing than its predecessor, and I spent a couple minutes running around looking for the yellow skull that I'd already picked up before I realized what happened. The end isn't as strong as it could be, and the level itself was a bit of a chore to go through again, but ultimately, it ends off on a rather okay note.

 

The next map has been made by Malcolm Sailor, so I'm interested to see what it has in store for us.

[DavitW]

MAP05 - The Fort - I

We have a 2 part map here which isn't something we see too often now a days, Once again design and gameplay is incredibly simple as you basically shoot your way through a bunch of hallways and boxes that all look quite similar and there's little variety to set any of these rooms or fights apart from eachother. As everybody else has alread said this map has what seems to be a record setting amount of doors in it, sometimes there's 2 doors right next to eachother leading into the same room because you gotta have as many doors as possible, at least that seemed to be the philosophy for John Bye in this map. The map's a bit confusing but it's rather close quarters and I didn't spend too much time wandering around but you'll still probably frequently find yourself fighting towards dead end rooms that have nothing of significance in them and having to backtrack.

 

MAP06 - The Fort - II

Well, after blowing up whatever the hell that thing was at the end of the last map we find ourselves having to backtrack through parts of the last map to get the hell out of here, guess that explains some of the doors we couldn't open last time. It's of course very similar to the last map although I felt there was a bit more variety to the textures and encounter's this time around, There's still little challenge but I did have fun mowing down groups of zombies with my chaingun. The custom music is a bit more of an ambient track and it does it's job well giving the map a bit of an uneasy or depressing feeling. All in all these weren't that impressive to me and felt like any random 95 Wad you could get off the idgames archive.

[tmorrow]

map06: The Fort - II, by John Bye
zdoom2.8.1, uvmax, pistol start, no saves, first time played

Apparently exit strategies are for wusses. After blowing up the fort's computer network, it's time to get out of what remains of the fort. The map consists of half the old fort with a new area opened up to the north. It plays much like the previous map with backtracking for secrets after hitting mysterious switches. The enemies are not overly threatening, but the 2 archviles that appear this time are more free to roam if you are caught unaware. John Bye makes excellent use of lighting in the corridors to help build the mood.

[Pirx]

10 hours ago, Capellan said:

 

Actually, you weren't standing close enough.  :) Punching or chainsawing it is perfectly safe.  Shooting it runs the risk that you'll be standing where the explosions spawn (320 units south, according to the wiki).

 

 

 

 

Doh! I shot the upper part of the box first (gzdoom, with mouselook) and the bullets passed through. Seems not to do anything, so I left, found nothing new, shot the box again,  hit its lower half, prompting it to shake its antennas and make that boss noise like it was alive... well, then, shoot at it, and when it forces you to restart, it's something that happens in today's maps, right... :p

Edited May 17, 2018 by Pirx

[TheOrganGrinder]

MAP06: The Fort - II

 

More of the same?  More of the same.  Meaning doors, and there's one that you couldn't open that you can now, and given the WAD's occasionally limited telegraphing (and equally occasional lack of coloured door trim) it's kinda annoying to have a combination of "doors you can't open because you don't have the right key," "doors you can't open because the switch is elsewhere," and "doors that you'll never be able to open," that all look the same.  The prior map wasn't really intriguing enough that I find backtracking through a repopulated chunk of it to be all that satisfying, and I feel as though MAP05 and MAP06 could readily enough have been a single map with slightly more clever use of keys and switches, plus teleporters to repopulate earlier portions of the map when backtracking is required.

[Spectre01]

MAP06 - “The Fort - II” by John Bye

It's a neat concept, similar to TNT's Wormhole, but just as half-baked in its execution. The ambient music is really nice, but what you're essentially doing is going back through the same map and fighting even more hitscanners. There is quite a bit of symmetry and copy+paste monster placement in a lot of these rooms too. Honestly, the previous map gave me my money's worth in its brand of content and more of the same was really unnecessary.

[Roofi]

Map 06 : The Fort - II

 

 

Author : John Bye

Difficulty : Easy

Death(s) : 0

FDA : yes

 

DEMO

 

You start to hear an unbearable crackling sound from the strange thing you have you just destroyed. It's so loud that it alerts a lot of monsters which you didn't see before. You're sure on the fact that the fort is larger than you expected and some deeper parts must be explored.

 

As mentionned before , the first part of the level consists to backtrack so there is nothing interesting to explore. Moreover , some rooms present in The Fort I become totally unaccessible in "The Fort II" because some doors can't be opened for no real reason. Nothin interesting so but the level is a bit harder because it contains more chaingunners and others powerful monsters like arch-viles , mancubus... Also another strange thing : some secrets vary between Fort I and Fort II whereas you explore the same place in the two maps but it's explained by gameplay purposes. However the second part of the level consists to explore the deeper parts of the fort located in the north area. Despite the fact that the textures tend to vary a bit more , the gameplay stays the same. You still have to cross many corridors separated with many doors.

 

In bref the two levels could have been very easily merged if there was not the IoS.  The noisy ambiance music was creepy but that's why I loved it.

[gaspe]

MAP06: The concept is very cool, it's only used in a couple of maps where it can't fully shine. The music was nice and put the right mood, though in certain soundfonts the initial noise is too loud.

[Capellan]

MAP07

Like Trooper's Playground, this does something other than the standard Dead Simple-a-thon, but it's a less successful 'something other' in my opinion. The first problem is the four identical imp corridors. I'm not sure these were actually copy/pasted, but they basically feel like it, which is never a good thing in a map.

 

The second and rather more substantial problem is the nature of the main Manc and 'tron battle, in the yellow door room. The sad fact is that the few roaming Arachnotrons earlier are much more engaging than anything that happens here. You can simply corner camp a door and grind everything in the room to chunky kibble, with the only threat being the off-chance of a Manc fireball no-clipping through the wall.

 

On the plus side, the map does look pretty nice: certainly better than the last couple.

 

[Magnusblitz]

MAP07: The Church

100% kills, 0/2 secrets

 

I disagree with Capellan, this is still very much a Dead Simple remix to me, albeit with a bit more at the start looping around the central area where the manc + 'tron battles are. But once you clear out the riff-raff at the start it's fighting a bunch of mancs in a box, then the walls lower and you fight a bunch of 'trons. And it's actually worse than Dead Simple because the map practically begs you to sit and door camp, whittling down the monsters instead of actually running around dodging.

[NuMetalManiak]

MAP07 The Church

 

Does this look like a church to you? Heck, The Chapel had a chapel but was mostly caves, this one is ALL caves. It's pretty symmetrical to a fault, get the two keys, then your standard MAP07 tropes apply. The soul sphere secret may have some guesswork but is really nothing.

[Aquila Chrysaetos]

MAP07: Dead Easy

GZDoom 2.4.0, UV, continuous, saves

 

I feel like an idiot because I forgot to get some screenshots.

 

This is a big square area with lost of fatsos in the center. After the fatsos are killed, the spiders are revealed. After the spiders are killed, little steps are raised so the player can get to the exit. Sounds like Dead Simple almost spot on.

 

Arguably the easiest map so far, save MAP01 and MAP02, because of all the projectile throwers, this really is a Dead Simple clone, just done ever so slightly differently. The way the center is situated, you'll most likely be holding a door and killing everything through it, consequences be damned because there won't be any consequences.

 

Really unexciting, but aesthetically okay, as is typical of a Malcolm Sailor map, this one's name wrote a check the map had insufficient funds to honor. Never heard of a square church before with a bunch of demons in it.

 

Really early today, but I'll get back on track tomorrow.

Maybe I'll get some screenshots then.

[DavitW]

MAP07 - The Church

At first this doesn't look like a dead simple map, but after some playing it begins to bear some resemblance to it. The maps rather symmetrical at parts, which means copy pasted and there's a big showdown with Mancubis and Arachis at the end. Apparently we're supposed to be in a church but i've never seen a church that looked like this, "Generic Cave" probably would have been a more fitting name for this level. There's way too many enemies in the big center room and the only practical way to deal with them is to just sit at the doors and blow them away with your shotgun which quickly becomes a tedious chore. As well as being probably the easiest dead simple style map i've played before.

[tmorrow]

map07: The Church, by Malcolm Sailor
zdoom2.8.1, uvmax, pistol start, no saves, first time played

Out of the fort and into a dark, dank church. Malcolm Sailor delivers a "Dead Simple" styled map where you first clear the outer, then the inner. Your super shotgun will get plenty of use here as you work your way around the outside corridors and collect the keys needed to get into the center where the action really picks up. As others have observed, it is unfortunate that any threat posed by the enemy can be trivialised by door camping. If you run short of ammo or health note that all of the pillars in the surrounding outer corridors can be lowered for top ups.

[Roofi]

Map 07 : The Church

 

 

Author(s) : Malcom Sailor

Difficulty : very easy

Death(s) : 0

FDA : yes

 

DEMO

 

You found a so-called church where you can't see any organ , any christian cross  , nothing to suggest that we are in a church. The layout looks like a bit to a cross but thats all. As mentionned before , you can rename this level as "Generic caves".

 

Malcom Sailor didn't make a totally generic Dead simple map because there is at least some exploration but the whole stays very boring and generic. I consider also this level as one of the easiest in the mapset because many fights are predictable and the final fight can be managed by just doorcamping.  I didn't grab the soulsphere because I already killed everything. The only difficulty was just the lack of ammo but tmorrow said that some were hidden in the pillars.

 

The aesthectics were neat despite the symmetrical architecture and square rooms. I liked how the music was more upbeat than usual but kept its mysterious tone at the same time.

[TheOrganGrinder]

MAP07: The Church

 

This is a bit more dressed up than the expected Dead Simple clone, even if it does ultimately culminate in the familiar two-phase battle against mancubi and arachnotrons; there's gameplay to be had exploring the outer ring and its various rooms, some of which are odd enough to bring a slightly surreal atmosphere to the proceedings.  This is mostly a job for the super shotgun and there are enough doors, windows, and pillars about the place that the task of clearing out the pellet-sponges during the final battle doesn't exactly get the blood pumping.  On the other hand, there are significantly fewer pointless doors and generic corridors than in the preceding couple of maps, which can only be a good thing.

[gaspe]

MAP07: I think that I agree with Capellan: not really a Dead Simple clone and neither something else. The worst thing is the battle in the central cross where you have to kill most of the monsters in a boring way. The level looked cool and the title doesn't seem to fit, maybe it's an alien church? Those towers in the western area were interesting. The lighting was odd anyway, the light that comes from the torches look like it should be casted from electric lights.

[Magnusblitz]

MAP08: Focus

100% kills, no map secrets

 

(No, not The Focus, just ... focus!)

 

Another "blink and you'll miss it" type map, with a few squarish, symmetrical areas and nothing much of note, aside from the really fucking annoying chaingunners hidden behind the false walls. Hate that shit, really easy to get ripped apart and not be sure where you're supposed to aim at. At least some of the lighting/detailing is nice, especially those burning barrel light sources near the start, but that's about it.

[Capellan]

MAP08

The visuals – especially the lighting – of this map are several steps above anything we've seen in the previous levels, and the reason is pretty obvious when you see Ola Bjorling's name in the credits.

 

The gameplay also generally feels more focused and directed here, and much less incidental. The chaingunners behind SP_FACE1 midtextures are nonsense, though. Bad wad authors!

 

[NuMetalManiak]

MAP08 Focus

 

Not The Focus, but Focus. This map and the previous go by rather fast, and this one is possibly even faster due to lack of any decent combat and some pretty easy puzzles. It gets some credit because of Ola and is lighting.

[Aquila Chrysaetos]

MAP08

GZDoom 2.4.0, UV, continuous, saves

 

Screenshots today! Yay!

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

First, I must echo pretty much everybody above me. Chaingunners behind SP_FACE1 textures equals fuck you, John Bye! As can be seen in the last shot, I was almost killed by them before I found that last room.

 

Now for the actual review.

If you didn't know much better, you'd swear we went straight back to 99 Ways or Trooper's Playground, because here we are in a brown structure. Ola Bjorling's lighting shines here, literally, but that's really all there is to recommend this one. Gameplay is dodgy, the most difficult point was the aforementioned chaingunners, and the map really just boils down to a key hunt.

 

I didn't read the story, so I don't know where this map fits in, but it seems our marine has bitten off a little more than he can chew, facing semi-fierce resistance on this planet.

 

Fortunately, it seems John Bye decided to forego the route of sticking doors everywhere because they are largely scarce here, which makes flow much easier. It's definitely a step up from the previous maps, but that's all I can say.

[tmorrow]

map08: Focus, by Ola Björling and John Bye
zdoom2.8.1, uvmax, pistol start, no saves, first time played

A brown brick and metal themed map with some marble in places. Good lighting helps build the mood nicely. With no secrets to be concerned with, you get to go about the business of beating up the enemy right away. There's a step up in difficulty on this smallish map. The enemy density has increased over earlier maps although the monster composition is much the same with mostly low tier enemies to tackle. The most interesting, dangerous, and simply unfair fight occurs in the room with the archvile. A nasty trap is sprung on the player involving a chaingunner concealed in each of the 4 corners while the player is distracted by several shotgunguys that have been revealed. With only 4 units of armor provided up to that point you can easily be mown down if you aren't careful.

[gaspe]

MAP08: Symmetrical and linear level but it somehow standout with its great attention to lighting and it's very short. The music was very creepy and the map has a strong mood, in particular the teleporter room was ominous.