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Wraith777

Level Progress Diagrams – Icarus: Alien Vanguard

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On 12/3/2018 at 4:31 PM, Linguica said:

I came across https://mermaidjs.github.io which has a live editor that you can use to make graphs like this:

 

Would be really nice to see all this working vise-versa (mostly as a matter of experimenting with AI mapping)

 

On 12/3/2018 at 8:28 PM, fraggle said:

It would be great if you could aggregate all these into poster format; they look compact enough that I assume you could fit all four IWADs on one poster print.

 

Yes, and the best way to do it is.. making it in scalable vector graphics form:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/79ftcxzms6nppzr/DooM-LPD.pdf?dl=0

Now it's easy to make LPD's for the rest of wads) (well, excluding such a layout monstrosities as those found in Eternal DooM or some other BIG map megawads)

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6 hours ago, Wraith777 said:

 

Would be really nice to see all this working vise-versa (mostly as a matter of experimenting with AI mapping)

 

 

Yes, and the best way to do it is.. making it in scalable vector graphics form:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/79ftcxzms6nppzr/DooM-LPD.pdf?dl=0

Now it's easy to make LPD's for the rest of wads) (well, excluding such a layout monstrosities as those found in Eternal DooM or some other BIG map megawads)

This is really something special! I have difficulties with spatial navigation, in general, so, for me, this is a very cool way to understand map flow in a Doom goal-related sense, without needing the actual map itself. Essentially, that's what this is, for me: A way to visualize level progression, highly distilled.

 

I wish there was some way to import one of these diagrams into Doom's automap, and show a pointer where DoomGuy currently is in the diagram, and maybe even grey-out areas that have already been visited. Do you think it's possible? (Just an idea)

 

I'm going to have to play through the IWADs again, while checking out the diagrams. I *do* think seeing the diagram on the automap, or via a different keystroke would be awesome. Great job - this was a lot of work, I can tell. Thanks for this.

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Alright, I think it's time for another update.

Let's look at LPDs for good old WizardWorks double offer:

 

                               Perdition's Gate                                       and                                         Hell to Pay
   2047471407_PerdGateLPD.PNG.2a4be8e2ae789d57576a9e37f7ac6db2.PNG                 266906284_Hell2PayLPD.PNG.384debafbce56834f5ddaf440c6f95f3.PNG

 

Final verdicts may look somewhat subjective since a lot of maps are pretty short and it's really hard to determine whenever an arena-based map may be counted as linear or nonlinear.

 

Perdition's Gate
Map01: nonlinear
Map02: linear
Map03: nonlinear
Map04: nonlinear
Map05: nonlinear
Map06: linear
Map07: linear
Map08: linear
Map09: linear
Map10: nonlinear
Map11: linear
Map12: linear
Map13: linear
Map14: linear
Map15: linear
Map16: linear
Map17: linear
Map18: linear
Map19: linear
Map20: linear
Map21: linear
Map22: linear
Map23: nonlinear
Map24: nonlinear
Map25: linear
Map26: nonlinear
Map27: nonlinear
Map28: nonlinear
Map29: linear
Map30: linear
Map31: linear
Map32: linear

 

Hell to Pay
Map01: linear
Map02: linear
Map03: linear
Map04: nonlinear
Map05: nonlinear
Map06: nonlinear
Map07: nonlinear
Map08: nonlinear
Map09: nonlinear
Map10: nonlinear
Map11: linear
Map12: nonlinear
Map13: nonlinear
Map14: nonlinear
Map15: linear
Map16: linear
Map17: nonlinear
Map18: linear
Map19: linear
Map20: linear
Map21: linear
Map22: linear
Map23: linear
Map24: linear
Map25: linear
Map26: linear
Map27: linear
Map28: linear
Map29: nonlinear
Map30: linear
Map31: nonlinear
Map32: nonlinear

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17 hours ago, joepallai said:

Outstanding work, can't wait to see what you do next.

 

I fear just one thing - a day, when it's gonna be Eternal Doom...

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I just thought it'll be interesting to look at LPDs of TnT Evilution's sibling -

                                  Icarus: Alien Vanguard

1338706572_IcarusLPD.PNG.b5b2a73511dcae1b1d23e65a30598553.PNG

Map01: linear
Map02: nonlinear
Map03: nonlinear
Map04: nonlinear
Map05: linear
Map06: linear
Map07: linear
Map08: nonlinear
Map09: nonlinear
Map10: nonlinear
Map11: linear
Map12: nonlinear
Map13: nonlinear
Map14: nonlinear
Map15: nonlinear
Map16: linear
Map17: nonlinear
Map18: nonlinear
Map19: linear
Map20: linear
Map21: nonlinear
Map22: linear
Map23: linear
Map24: nonlinear
Map25: linear
Map26: linear
Map27: linear
Map28: nonlinear
Map29: nonlinear
Map30: linear
Map31: nonlinear
Map32: linear


Some comments on this one:

- it's all about getting the red key in the end of every map (except map30)
- more collector maps this time

- nonlinear maps are in majority here

- it was really hard to determine player's progression without replaying a lot of maps since they have extensive mechanics for map morphing from SP to MP (and that changes a lot)

- I was really shocked to realize that map11 is actually pretty linear and straightforward (unlike I always remember it being wide and expansive)

 

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If you take suicide exits into account, many of the levels become a lot less linear, as this removes the need at least for the red key. Or, if you assume the player will always use the shortest route to the exit, a lot more linear, I suppose, but then that is true for any map.

 

And your penultimate point is pertinent too, since MP areas are relevant to SP play in a number of cases (14 and 28 are ones that spring to mind).

 

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I should've stated somewhere that LPDs count only official pathways intended by level author. Therefore, they don't take into account any exploitable bugs and glitches (grabs, suicide exits, glide etc) that create new pathways to progress thru level. But, if a specific trick/exploit/bug is required to beat the level (as intended by author) this counts as official pathway on LPD. Anyway, it's always possible to extend LPD classification by adding a new class of LPDs that includes such exploits, so that we get normal and extended LPDs.

 

I always assume the shortest way as the main one, but if the alternative longer ways provide significantly different experience (like granting a new weapon, ammo/armor, making it easier to take out monsters from the distance) then they are shown as parallel paths. If both paths are significantly long or there are series of them it definitely makes level more nonlinear.

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Posted (edited)

1: How do you even know what was intended by the author? Some maps (e.g. in Ksutra) deliberately leave a bunch of possible shortcut ideas, and allow players to decide whether they are useful and if so how to use them.

2: Some tricks/exploits have become so standardly used that excluding them seems to make little sense. Many early levels didn't even take straferunning into account. Likewise, some early authors assumed people knew about AVJs while others didn't. The red key being skippable in many levels of Icarus is obvious and well-known nowadays.

3: Whatever the rationale, seeing, e.g., Icarus map22 described as linear just seems... wrong.

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Posted (edited)

1) I don't know exactly, I just assumed that there may be maps that execute such exploits as obligatory to perform in order to complete them.

 

2) The fact that tricks/exploits have become standard doesn't mean they are official. Doom is an officially released title with it's rules intended for general public. Original game designers didn't acknowledge those tricks, so their use is not intentional. Again, they may become official when they are made unavoidable by author (IF there are such maps, I don't know, never was interested in such things). For example, in my maps I always try to exclude situations when tricks/exploits can be performed because they are not intended here, however, if after release someone still finds a way to use one of those tricks I don't have anything against it and won't rush to fix it (after all that's the point of everything - to find something hidden and unintended, it adds some sportive interest). That's why I count all red keys in Icarus - because its the rule of the game that you're supposed to find the key and use it (and I don't think Icarus authors acknowledged suicide exits and intentionally made them passable that way).

 

Every classification has it's rules. In this case making an LPD follows layout, mechanics and author intentions of original game.

For map classification regarding player progression (linear/nonlinear) using LPD rules exploitable bugs, tricks and glitches are not taken into account
If someone wants to create alternative LPDs of extended type (with exploits included) they are welcome to try it, no problem.

 

3) Again, this classification has its rules that need to be understand.

In Map22 player may choose of 2 main progression sequences (which are not options):

1)

- go all way to the north until closed yellow door,

- after that go back to graveyard for yellow key

- return to yellow door and lift down red key

- go for red key into tomb

- go to red door and exit

 

OR

2)

- go to graveyard and take yellow key

- go to yellow door and lift down red key

- go for red key into tomb

- go to red door and exit

 

In both cases player can go to tomb with red key first (that makes 4 possible choices), but his progression doesn't change because in all 4 cases key points are achieved in the same order (yellow key > yellow door > red key > red door) and there is only one way to achieve key point every time (except some small forks shown on LPD). Also in case 1 you have a lot of unnecessary backtrack (which makes it different from collector maps).

That's why map22 is classified as overall linear.

This classification is still under development, I need to write down all main rules here with detail.

 

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Quick question, just by curiosity: Do you plan to analyze in the future the rest of official releases (No Rest for the Living and Master Levels for Doom II)? And certain semi-official releases, such as Betray, Sewers and Sigil? And, perhaps, The Lost Episodes of Doom?

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No Rest for the Living and Sigil are definitely on my list. The Lost Episodes of Doom.. may be. Overall, I'm interested in covering complete episode/megawad releases first. This goes both for classic (Memento Mori1,2, Requiem, 2002 A Doom Odyssey, Alien Vendetta, Heroes...) and modern (Base Ganymede, Concerned, No End in Sight, Interception, Jenesis, Estranged...) releases I've played before.

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