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Obsidian

MAYhem 2018 - Purple Version!

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Posted (edited)

Prepare for trouble.

Make it double!

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having two sister projects running at the same time is pretty awesome, neat idea :D

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You got me on purple, now I should build something. 

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@jmickle66666666 & I will be collaborating on a purple map. Any comment I made on the orange thread regarding participation is now false and applies here instead. :P

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I'll make a map for this mayhem (maybe the other one too) when I finish the other e2 level i'm working on... you've got me with kamikaze zombies.

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Ok, so I decided to make map with @leodoom85 , because why not. It's sealed. Sorry for double posting.

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I love "The Grell" ! 

Pretty interesting about making it purple btw. I would like to make a map for it too but I dont think I will have the time 

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This might seem pretty ignorant/nooby but why replace things instead of making them stand alone? 
Sorry if this has an obvious answer.

Cheers

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Posted (edited)

You have to replace existing things in DEHACKED, defining new things without replacing something else would require DECORATE which is ZDoom only and this project is targeting Boom compatability.

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1 minute ago, Eris Falling said:

You have to replace existing things in DEHACKED, defining new things without replacing something else would require DECORATE which is ZDoom only and this project is targeting Boom compatability.

Gotcha, makes sense.

Thanks!

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Bushpig2dope said:

This might seem pretty ignorant/nooby but why replace things instead of making them stand alone? 
Sorry if this has an obvious answer.

Cheers

 

In addition, Dehacked editing has a limited number of frames one can work with ('frames' are constituents of a thing's behavior). Vanilla or Boom in particular is even more limited in that regard than MBF Dehacked. (MBF Dehacked is part of why Valiant could have so much new stuff.) So even if you could define new things, you'd have to get the frames from somewhere. 

 

Generally the approach is to start by taking the frames of the Commander Keen and Wolfenstein SS, which are hardly used outside of maps like Scotty's SS Nazi and revenant spam masterpiece from DMP2017. Then whatever else is replaced is more a matter of practicality and character. Splash immunity is hardcoded so if you want a boss or a rocket-firing monster to be immune, you have to do something like replace the mastermind. (Valiant gives the cybruiser the mastermind's immunity and gives the mastermind the light amp goggle's spot, lol.) The mastermind is a next logical choice for replacing anyway, because it's a rare monster sets can generally live without and has lots of frame to spare. The baron is similar.

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Two projects in one month... I admire your shoes sir, but I really wouldn't want to be in your shoes at this particular time and place.

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I like these monsters compared to orange... ill make a map 

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... HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELL. Alright, I'm in this time, folks.

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Good enemies, except Immolator, which looks way stronger than he actually is.

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Posted (edited)

Regardless of not mapping, I went ahead and tested the monsters in the iwad, just to see what they look like in-game and give a few thoughts from a player perspective. I already met bombers and possessed marines before, the others not. I'll try to do it in a rdwpa-ish structure:

 

These bombers are a slower version of what I met, I'm thinking that these guys might be a little easier to handle, the surprise factor was effective at least 90% of the times in Valiant (ambush after picking a key, or hidden behind corners), from my experience of course, because they moved fast enough to touch me before I reacted properly, so I'm curious to see how they will be used here.

 

Possessed marines are considerably dangerous even at not so close range, I like that they are not like the crazy trolls from Scythe 2, still in my opinion they could use a different pain state sound, as it may confuse the player and think doomguy is the one being damaged. 

 

Grells seemed perfectly fine, I feel like they could go in similar ways like arachnorbs in Valiant, the purple colours make their attacks look like poisonous mucus lol... ew.

 

The chaingun spider could work as the ideal "baby spiderdemon", its attack is much weaker but their health and pain chance is enough so players won't feel the need to be "too" cautious most of the times. In a way, it compensates the lack of an upper-tier hitscanner in this project (archviles are unique types imo), I wonder how mappers will use it, so that it doesn't turn out to be just a chaingunner with more HP.

 

Last but not least, echoing Archi, the immolator looks stronger than it actually is. I'm thinking him lonely will work better in constricted spaces with pillars, so the player has to be concerned about the volley of rockets, otherwise the more space the more powerful projectiles loose their sense. In packs it's another story though. However, they could use some rework: Its first volley could be something different though, and I'm not convinced about the triple-rocket volley, there's already a tanky monster that does that in a better way (ergo, moo boy). Besides, one rocket can already do the job right imo. An idea for the first volley would be to spread the fireballs, I'm not sure if this is possible in Boom though, but it'll improve the chances to getting hit if the player isn't aware. On a positive side, it doesn't get pushed away like Scythe 2 afrits did. So, as it stands, the monster could have less HP, something between 1500-2000 would be enough for a high-tier and wouldn't feel like a slog in open spaces (without BFG or fast RL of course), but if his attacks can be improved then health could remain intact. 

 

Hopefully my grain of sand is welcome, as I'd like to play the ending results someday C:

 

EDIT: the weapons!

 

I really like the fast rocket launcher, no safety pin makes it for a viable option for monsters on ledges, and continuous rockets serves to push against mobs faster, even against monsters with splash immunity. However, I found a couple of things that in my opinion should be considered: in slot 1 we are all accustomed to pull out first the chainsaw and second the fist according to the case, I can already imagine it being annoying to have to press 1 and accidentally shoot with pinkies in your face, or any situation you want to punch something. This won't be an issue in maps where there's one or the other, or if both and the zerk is needless later. The other thing is the standard rocket launcher, with a faster version I won't ever wish to press 5 again, if both are in the same map of course. Since continuous is the way for some people, the standard RL becomes obsolete after you get the upgraded one, but that's not a big deal if pistol start is intended. Mappers surely have more creativity in this topic than me, I'd move it to slot 5 though and do some testing, but that's just my opinion on it.

Edited by galileo31dos01

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I would like to comment on two of the monsters in this version, particularly the Suicide Bomber and the Possessed Marine.
 

Suicide bomber:
I love these guys from Valiant and I'm always happy to see them again in interesting situations. With the recent patch release with increased speed, they still feel slow to me. I lowered their chase frames for all angles from 3 to 2 and they were much faster, which is my personal preference. I think it's even faster than the Valiant counterparts who have a speed of 10 (MAYhem2018 is 12 speed) but I couldn't look at their frame duration for multiple angles in WhackED4 due to the program crashing with Valiant's DEHACKED.
 

I apologize if I'm comparing them with their Valiant counterpart, I thought they were perfect. 10 speed is maybe safest to work with if all chase frames are lowered to 2.
 

Mr. Fabulous:

Thankfully these guys aren't deathmatch stoners like the ones from Scythe 2. It will be interesting to see them in close combat situations, places where an arachnotron can't fit. I did find them a bit easy to kill though due to their slow speed but it's entirely dependent on monster placement. I also have not figured out their potential, it's probably best not change how they work currently.

No major complaints, this monster seems easy to work with. Their FaceTarget duration is spot on and I'm able to react to it with little movement momentum. My three preferences which are tied together:

1) Maybe increase their movement speed by a bit but if it looks choppy then keep speed as is. Possibly lower chase frame durations to 2 from 3? To compare with Scythe 2, their chase frames are 1 and speed is 16. MAYhem2018, chase frames are 3 and speed is 11. I haven't tested any speed changes.

2) Lower amount of projectiles fired to 3 from 6. add 2 frame duration FaceTarget between attacks? This will lower their threat level by quite a bit though if speed and frame duration remains the same.

3) Increase HP amount to 160? It makes them more fabulous. It gives them a bit more beef if the player decides to fight them long range with hitscan weapons.

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Purple version textures give me some errors. I know, they're not so breaking, but still. 
 

Patch "SUPP916A", index 540 is double defined in resource "SER81YAM.wad".

Patch "SUPP916B", index 541 is double defined in resource "SER81YAM.wad".

Flat "HEXA01", index 607 is double defined in resource "SER81YAM.wad".

Flat "BLACKFLT", index 620 is double defined in resource "SER81YAM.wad".

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Hmm, I don't remember ever having issues like that back when I originally compiled the resource together for Violence. I could be remembering incorrectly though.

 

On a related note, I realized a couple days ago that there's, ah, not a huge amount to work with. The limited texture set worked for a set that only had four maps, but for a project of this scale? Some extra variety would go a long way. I've talked to Obsidian, and I'm going to be working on expanding the resources somewhat.

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Ye that seems to be issue with amount of accessible recources... most of textures remain same original ones, isn't it okay to add more from, say, cc4 tex set or Valiant one?

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I'll leave that up to AD: seeing as he was the original creator of the texture set, he's probably the best one to add stuff when it comes to preserving the aesthetic.

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Posted (edited)

I'm going to grab a bunch of stuff that doesn't feel too out of place. Valiant for example has some that'll work, yes, especially considering Violence's origins as a Valiant/Skillsaw love letter (I did get most of the textures from there in the first place!). I'll definitely look through some other sources though. Shouldn't take very long, a few days perhaps? In the meantime, please don't be adding resources on your own until I upload the expanded resource list, to avoid potential duplicates and whatnot.

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