Favorite Source Port? (Multiple Choice Poll)

[chilvence]

I thought all this stuff was optionable anyway. If you could give all the billions of compat options a rating between 1 and 3 of how much they mess up Doom's original gameplay, boil the relevant ones together into the same mix, then list them in order of severity, then you have a very nice and simple compatibility menu. Especially with a button that says "Doom 2 Clone mode!". You don't even really need to differentiate between all the different options, you just need to know if you are playing the doom 2 version, or the 'fixed version'.

/me touches his chainsaw

edit: ^ By the way, I know you didnt mean me specifically, and my post was meant to come off as 'reactionary looking'. Its all part of the subplots... I think...

[myk]

chilvence said:
I thought all this stuff was optionable anyway.

Of course (or in any case you can choose different engines). Don't get me wrong, I've nothing against you using a "fixed" chainsaw engine or mode and loving how it is and whatnot. Be my guest.

In any case, leave that chainsaw alone, don't make be consume this berserk pack and make you go "slop". I'll hit you even with the buggy one!

[chilvence]

Hehe.

Actually, Its the fists and the chainsaw that very much define Doom's character for me. Although every game tryed to out do it later, and now we have bandsaws and baseball bats and electrified spiked gauntlets left right and centre, Doom was the first game that I played in which the developers casually went "yeah, we'll have a chainsaw as a standby weapon, and if that aint good enough, here you can turn people inside out with your fingers."

As such, it really doesn't matter to me the specifics in how it works under the hood (although I'd prefer it to not be buggy) - it is literally the style element. Pathologically violent as it may be, I just love the humour element it puts into the game, like watching an over the top horror movie. There are many cases like that where I really couldn't care how its tweaked or changed, because as long as I can do the same stuff, who cares? It's just patching up a favourite old jumper that I'll be damned if I throw it away.

[sargebaldy]

Graf Zahl said:

I'm not talking about Voodoo dolls. I am talking about such stuff like glitches in the movement and physics code. For you it might be part of Doom that using the chainsaw in certain situations doesn't work or that hitscan attacks seem to pass right through the target because it isn't properly checked. For me these count as genuine bugs.

Oh. So what you're saying is that some bugs ARE essential parts of the game, and should remain, while others AREN'T. And clearly it's up to you to decide which ones are better fixed and which ones are better off remaining. If you ask me, voodoo dolls aren't any more essential than the original physics code, because practically all mappers took the original physics into effect when they made their maps. So you end up playing a map that is much easier than its creator intended. Which is to say you're effectively cheating. Not to mention that a lot of the bugs have helped to give the game character, and some people prefer it that way.

And it's not like ZDoom stops at fixing "bugs". Randy Heit also tweaked things just because they "made sense" to him, like making monsters not able to see you for a second when you pick up an invisibility orb. Sounds like it ends up more about creating your own ideal of what Doom "should be" and spitting on what it was to begin with.

[chilvence]

sargebaldy said:

Sounds like it ends up more about creating your own ideal of what Doom "should be" and spitting on what it was to begin with.

That is perfectly true, but can anyone actually stand being dominated by their parents, so to speak?

[myk]

sargebaldy said:
And clearly it's up to you to decide which ones are better fixed and which ones are better off remaining.

Well, if he picks up the code and does it (or maintains that modified code), then it is to a good degree, in that particular sense.

Sounds like it ends up more about creating your own ideal of what Doom "should be" and spitting on what it was to begin with.

I don't think modifying the game has to be seen spitting on the original. That's like saying playing Memento Mori is like spitting on DOOM II's standard maps.

I'm probably the most purist regular here, but I do think variety, both in that people can choose different things to use, or can stick to some of those different things, enriches the community.

You have a healthy community when you can have people doing quite different things in it treating each other in a civil and nonsuspicious way, not when everyone agrees to a certain set of things, or when everyone is expected to like everything.

[Graf Zahl]

sargebaldy said:

Oh. So what you're saying is that some bugs ARE essential parts of the game, and should remain, while others AREN'T. And clearly it's up to you to decide which ones are better fixed and which ones are better off remaining. If you ask me, voodoo dolls aren't any more essential than the original physics code,

That's utter bullshit if you ask me. Comparing the unintended spawning of additional players with real bugs in crucial formulas of the physics code just doesn't match up. These are 2 fundamentally different kinds of programming errors. One can be safely ignored without and negative side effect but the other can not. A voodoo doll will only have an effect if one is spawned and you can normally be certain that if that happens it is intended. On the other hand the countless glitches and bugs in the physics code will affect all maps.

So you end up playing a map that is much easier than its creator intended. Which is to say you're effectively cheating.

LOL!
If you count everything as cheating that has been changed since vanilla Doom you had to count every single port feature that has ever been developed - like looking up/down, Boom's and MBF's changes to the AI code and so on and so on. You could even count high resolutions as cheating because the original game had blur-o-vision. So, does playing Doom with Doom95 mean you are cheating? Obviously this argument is utterly ridiculous.

Not to mention that a lot of the bugs have helped to give the game character, and some people prefer it that way.

You know that I disagree with this viewpoint and honestly don't care whether someone is bothered by these fixes in ZDoom or not. Most of its users agree that consistent behavior is preferable to glitchiness. If that means that people like you won't use it anymore, fine. Then use engines that behave the way you prefer. But stop complaining that you may not be able to play maps made by people who don't agree with your definition of 'proper' Doom gameplay and map for the ports you choose to ignore.

And it's not like ZDoom stops at fixing "bugs". Randy Heit also tweaked things just because they "made sense" to him, like making monsters not able to see you for a second when you pick up an invisibility orb. Sounds like it ends up more about creating your own ideal of what Doom "should be" and spitting on what it was to begin with.

You are right about this one. This definitely needs a compatibility option. But since I tend to avoid picking these things up anyway unless faced with a larger amount of hitscan monsters it never really bothered me to the point that I felt like changing it.

[Lüt]

In that case, you should also fix splash damage, I think that's been broken for 3 years now.

[fraggle]

Graf Zahl said:

If you count everything as cheating that has been changed since vanilla Doom you had to count every single port feature that has ever been developed - like looking up/down,

Um, MAP30? :-)

[Graf Zahl]

fraggle said:

Um, MAP30? :-)

Yeah, that's cheating. But you know what? I really don't care. I am utterly tired of playing Icons of Sin the proper way and happily send the rockets into the hole using mouselook. :D

@Lüt: What exactly is your problem with splash damage? If you tell me maybe it can be addressed.

[LexiMax]

Really, these arguments are pointless. Odamex doesn't stick to 100% classic gameplay either. Just to name a few...

* The usual stuff, like freelook, jumping and high resolutions. However, unlike ZDoom, a great many other things have been hardcoded (like weaponswitch on pickup and classic SSG spreads), and the few options that are there are more gameplay variations instead of changes to the fundamental physics of the game.
* Client/Server architecture. For a truely authentic tic-by-tic doom2.exe experience, you would want peer to peer connectivity, but since that is not feasable over the internet, C/S is the next best option.
* A theoretically infinite player limit. Doom was limited to four players.
* Teamplay. Vanilla Doom didn't have that.
* Capture the Flag. This is defeniatly an 'enhanced' feature.

And it probably would have still had partial Hexen support if the source wasn't tainted. The point is, every port author makes judgement calls on what they consider important in a port. We aren't necissarily more "right" for deciding to keep as close to the origional physics as possible, any more than Randy is "wrong" for fixing the chainsaw bug. If you can put up with the changes to a port in order to play a map, do so, otherwise, don't.

I still, however, fundamentally disagree with Graf about game physics and charactor. Tell "Bunniyhopping and Strafejumping is a bug!!!" to the thousands upon thousands of Quake 1, Quake 2 and Quake 3 players. In fact, I honestly beleive that if Doom had been the first widely played internet game (instead of Quake), modern ports would not be able to 'get away' with making these fundamental changes to the game. Or perhaps they would, but nobody would play their port.

[myk]

AlexMax said:
Really, these arguments are pointless.

Especially after someone splits the thread and throws half the comments out of context. Heh.

[Bastet Furry]

If people wouldnt bitch so much but would create something, now that would be nice.....

And as we speak about creating..........
@GrafZahl:
If you have some free time at hand, could you try your hands at a skeleton for a mouse driven inventory screen ala DeusEx 1?
Pressing I pauses the game and brings up an inventory, i would do that myself, if i knew where to hook that into zDoom.
Just some crude version i would enhance myself then.

[aleksej]

Mostly vanilla .exe (optionally entryway's doom+) under DOS/Win98 and Choco as second port under WinXP.

[Cloud109]

Back in the beginning, when I got into the whole source port scene, I found myself using ZDoom as it appeared to be the most commonly used port. Eventually, I "upgraded" to GZDoom, when I fell in love with the OpenGL rendering option.

But over time, I grew tired of the OpenGL, as I would always be changing my OpenGL settings from computer to computer, until I eventually realized everything looked better under the software rendering anyway.

It was when I got into the multiplayer scene that I discovered Skulltag, which is now my source port of choice. It's easily the most convenient to use [for me, at least], and has a nice bunch of options for customization.

[Glassyman]

ZDoom because contains lots of features and it's easy to use.

[farhaven]

ZDoom for editing and playing (mostly because of full mouselook,these days even more maps get made for a special source-port,which is in most cases zdoom and because of its great scripting features) and PrBoom / Chocolate Doom for watching/recording demos

[Steeveeo]

GZDoom for obvious reasons (its modability)

Used to use Doomsday but got friggin sick of constant Segment Violation crashouts during internet games

[Fusion]

Boom baby. But if i had to pick a more advanced adaptation, Zdoom but of course.

[Mithral_Demon]

Skulltag: Why? RAILGUN! Another reason why- Evil harder versions of Cacodemon and Baron of hell.

Reason for Railgun- Instant Gib on monsters that CAN be gibbed, meaning imps, zombies, players. =P

Reason For Better Cacos: You know how boring it gets to just see floating tomatoes that shoot purple-ish balls at you, I'd rather see something new for once!

Reason for Better Barons: Belphegor, strong and fast, lots of health, great monster infighter. =D

[BlackShark]

Zdaemon and Black-DOOM for me.

[TimeOfDeath]

ZDaemon for single player, coop and demo recording.
PrBoom for playing, watching and recording.
ZDoom for recording.

[chungy]

Chocolate Doom - It's like the Doom I fell in love with, except I don't need DOS to run it :)

[Hobbs]

These days I've switched to using mostly Chocolate Doom for everything. PrBoom has a rather stupid linux mouse issue that makes playing it a little more arse than I care to deal with, and in Chocolate Doom the issue is resolved.

[Torn]

Zdoom for general use, chocolate for playing/mapping vanilla maps.

[Hekksy]

I use Skulltag because it has everything I want singleplayer and multiplayer-wise. If for some reason a wad can't run in Skulltag, I use ZDooM. If I want to go classic, I either set classic flags in Skulltag or use Chocolate Doom. Once in a blue moon I'll play Zdaemon, and I'll probably play Odamex when its past beta stages.

Overall I am a multiplayer Doomer.

[Splynncryth]

My goal is to do an EFI port of Doom that runs under the EFI shell. I am just trying to do a basic port, nothing fancy, this is more of a can it be done project.
What I would like is a port as close to what I have in EFI as possible. EFI uses uses a software API, not direct hardware access.
If anyone is curious, I should be able to use the EFI simple text in protocol for keyboard access, EFI simple pointer protocol for mouse support, the UGA protocol for video, the FAT32 driver for file access, and various other EFI boot and runtime services for other stuff.

I was hoping for something where this stuff was consoladated in such a way that I can do my porting making the minimum number of changes. I was hoping someone familar with the available source ports might be able to point me towards something to start hacking away with?

[fraggle]

PrBoom or Chocolate Doom would provide you with a portable base that you could use to get something up and running fairly easily.

[chungy]

I might also note that if you use PrBoom, remember to use the official version; PrBoom+ is not as portable (it doesn't even work in Linux anymore).

[entryway]

MikeRS said:

I might also note that if you use PrBoom, remember to use the official version; PrBoom+ is not as portable (it doesn't even work in Linux anymore).

really? :)