Why do a ton of older megawads always have slaughter maps occupying the map32 slot?

[Arctangent]

2 minutes ago, AbsorbedHatch said:

It's one thing for a megawad to get increasingly difficult, but it's another to completely change the play-style to Hell Revealed 3. Why hasn't anyone managed to understand this is what I was implying?

do you get your custom title from always thinking the spotlight's on you or something

[Quagsire]

26 minutes ago, Arctangent said:

do you get your custom title from always thinking the spotlight's on you or something

Stay on topic or shut up, I'm not gonna have you divert the subject just to feel good about yourself.

[Arctangent]

53 minutes ago, AbsorbedHatch said:

Stay on topic or shut up, I'm not gonna have you divert the subject just to feel good about yourself.

but you've yourself diverted the flow of the topic to focus on yourself just because you couldn't be bothered to realize that the past several pages have been about spd's opinions, not your's

[Quagsire]

3 minutes ago, Arctangent said:

but you've yourself diverted the flow of the topic to focus on yourself just because you couldn't be bothered to realize that the past several pages have been about spd's opinions, not your's

But I never fully got involved with whatever they were going on about? You quoted me so I responded. Is that a bad thing to do?

[Arctangent]

3 minutes ago, AbsorbedHatch said:

But I never fully got involved with whatever they were going on about?

 

18 hours ago, AbsorbedHatch said:

I never said increased difficulty was bad though? I simply said that the amount of map32s in megawads tend to overdo the whole slaughtermap concept. Stop trying to twist my words up.

 

[Nine Inch Heels]

On 5/11/2018 at 1:58 AM, AbsorbedHatch said:

Now the question floats before me and you: Why? What compelled people back then to follow this stupid trend of making the second secret map of each megawad a slaughter fest? Why are they so punishing? Answers are appreciated, and desired as well. I cannot for the love of me figure this out at all.

 

1 hour ago, AbsorbedHatch said:

It's one thing for a megawad to get increasingly difficult, but it's another to completely change the play-style to Hell Revealed 3. Why hasn't anyone managed to understand this is what I was implying?

As far as I can see, that question has been answered several times already. Plutonia did it, and it seems people enjoyed it enough to copy that trope, and that's all there is to it. People have also given plenty reasons as to why a map like "go 2 it" is better suited for a "super secret slot" than it is suited for the main progression of the WAD. Don't like it? Don't play it.

 

Now I'm gonna leave you and Arctangent to your honeymoon.

[Quagsire]

4 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

 

As far as I can see, that question has been answered several times already. Plutonia did it, and it seems people enjoyed it enough to copy that trope, and that's all there is to it. People have also given plenty reasons as to why a map like "go 2 it" is better suited for a "super secret slot" than it is suited for the main progression of the WAD. Don't like it? Don't play it.

 

Plutonia DID do it, but it wasn't in the same style as traditional slaughter maps. It simply had a somewhat higher amount of enemies in certain spots, unlike what's seen in the secret maps for Scythe 2, AV, and Icarus. Besides, most players aren't obligated to know firsthand what secret levels are like. Sure, they ARE optional and they can be avoided easily, but as I said, the curiosity of your average player usually compels them to jump straight in. Should they be punished for finding them? Not at all, especially if there's zero reward for completing them. At least give the player a medkit or two for their troubles, so that they don't have the same hassle when they come back from the secret level.

[Capellan]

Some megawads have slaughtermaps in map32.  Some megawads have slaughtermaps in other maps.  Or in every map.  And many megawads have no slaughtermaps at all.

 

There are more than enough wads for everyone to play Doom for the rest of their lives without running out of new stuff to try.  Play the wads you like and let other people play the wads they like.

 

 

^{This message brought to you by the Society of People Who Don't Enjoy Slaughtermaps But Accept That Other People Do, And Who Regret That Their Societal Acronym Is So Long,  But At Least You Don't Have To Type It, Like You Used To Have To Have To Type IDSPISPOPD Before IDCLIP Was A Thing.}

[Quagsire]

9 minutes ago, Arctangent said:

[Some quotes]

You can't just take one of my replies to someone involved in both discussions and say I was a part of what Spd went on about.

[Quagsire]

Just now, Capellan said:

Some megawads have slaughtermaps in map32.  Some megawads have slaughtermaps in other maps.  Or in every map.  And many megawads have no slaughtermaps at all.

 

There are more than enough wads for everyone to play Doom for the rest of their lives without running out of new stuff to try.  Play the wads you like and let other people play the wads they like.

 

 

^{This message brought to you by the Society of People Who Don't Enjoy Slaughtermaps But Accept That Other People Do, And Who Regret That Their Societal Acronym Is So Long,  But At Least You Don't Have To Type It, Like You Used To Have To Have To Type IDSPISPOPD Before IDCLIP Was A Thing.}

If you enjoy slaughtermaps, that's fine. But it doesn't mean others aren't allowed to share their insight alongside their post.

[Arctangent]

1 minute ago, AbsorbedHatch said:

You can't just take one of my replies to someone involved in both discussions and say I was a part of what Spd went on about.

one your replies targeted at no one in particular, in the context of thinking that people were saying you didn't like difficult maps and that they were putting words in your mouth, after someone else entirely just said they don't like difficult maps

[Quagsire]

5 minutes ago, Arctangent said:

one your replies targeted at no one in particular, in the context of thinking that people were saying you didn't like difficult maps and that they were putting words in your mouth, after someone else entirely just said they don't like difficult maps

If I was referring to anything that SPD said I'd make it clear. There, now will you stop trying to correlate my posts and his?

[Nine Inch Heels]

13 minutes ago, AbsorbedHatch said:

Plutonia DID do it, but it wasn't in the same style as traditional slaughter maps.

How many traditional slaughtermaps existed at the time plutonia was released I wonder.

 

13 minutes ago, AbsorbedHatch said:

Besides, most players aren't obligated to know firsthand what secret levels are like.

Why is that a problem? Doom has enough slots for saves, level select cheats and more.

 

13 minutes ago, AbsorbedHatch said:

Sure, they ARE optional and they can be avoided easily, but as I said, the curiosity of your average player usually compels them to jump straight in. Should they be punished for finding them?

Again, people can save their game beforehand. Frankly, I enjoy "go 2 it" more than most other maps in plutonia to begin with, but you don't hear me complain about how plutonia doesn't have enough slaughter.

 

13 minutes ago, AbsorbedHatch said:

Not at all, especially if there's zero reward for completing them.

There's zero reward for completing any map in doom, unless VGA resolution pictures of beheaded bunnies are something you consider a reward. This point of yours is moot.

 

13 minutes ago, AbsorbedHatch said:

At least give the player a medkit or two for their troubles, so that they don't have the same hassle when they come back from the secret level.

Something tells me most (if not all) of these maps have ample enough health and armour so that players can usually exit in good shape, and carry on with their playthrough as if nothing happened.

[Arctangent]

1 minute ago, AbsorbedHatch said:

If I was referring to anything that SPD said I'd make it clear. There, now will you stop trying to correlate my posts and his?

but i'm not

 

i've been saying you were pretty blatantly thinking that everything everyone was saying to him was aimed at you, thus putting words into their mouths while claiming they were doing the same to you

[Quagsire]

3 minutes ago, Arctangent said:

but i'm not

 

i've been saying you were pretty blatantly thinking that everything everyone was saying to him was aimed at you, thus putting words into their mouths while claiming they were doing the same to you

I was trying to reply to the people quoting me, not to the people quoting SPD. Sorry for the confusion

[Quagsire]

5 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

Something tells me most (if not all) of these maps have ample enough health and armour so that players can usually exit in good shape, and carry on with their playthrough as if nothing happened.

Not near the end usually, they're usually placed in open areas where enemies are more likely to crowd in.

[Nine Inch Heels]

3 minutes ago, AbsorbedHatch said:

Not near the end usually, they're usually placed in open areas where enemies are more likely to crowd in.

Maybe you should learn how to crowd shape, or get good enough at dodging so that you can get by.... Man, I get the sense the only actual reason you complain is because those maps kick your rear end.

[Quagsire]

6 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

How many traditional slaughtermaps existed at the time plutonia was released I wonder.

I mean Plutonia's a example of your traditional slaughtermap.

 

8 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

Why is that a problem? Doom has enough slots for saves, level select cheats and more.

You make a bit of a point there, I suppose. It's still extremely disappointing to find out a secret level has nothing to give at all.

 

9 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

There's zero reward for completing any map in doom, unless VGA resolution pictures of beheaded bunnies are something you consider a reward. This point of yours is moot.

I never said ALL maps should be like this, just the secret ones that have a wide degree of difficulty to them.

[leodoom85]

Looks like now this thread transforms from the OP to how you play "slaughterish" maps.

Hey, play any map that you want. It's up to you, really. Practice until you get the hang of it. If you can't, just IDDQD the map and enjoy.

Hell...if we talk about Plutonia, then you should play Plutonia 2 or PRCP to have a better grasp of how maps are compared in terms of difficulty.

[NuMetalManiak]

14 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

How many traditional slaughtermaps existed at the time plutonia was released I wonder.

This

 

Well before Plutonia was released but fucked fuck I don't care.

[Nine Inch Heels]

3 minutes ago, AbsorbedHatch said:

It's still extremely disappointing to find out a secret level has nothing to give at all

Okay, dude, we get it... You don't like slaughtermaps. I get the picture. What's the problem now? That one map out of 32 isn't to your liking? Man, I wish I had enough time to get upset about shit like that.

[Capellan]

36 minutes ago, AbsorbedHatch said:

If you enjoy slaughtermaps, that's fine. But it doesn't mean others aren't allowed to share their insight alongside their post.

 

"I don't like slaughtermaps" is not an insight.  It's merely an opinion.  An opinion I share, as it happens, but an opinion nonetheless.

 

[Quagsire]

20 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

Okay, dude, we get it... You don't like slaughtermaps. I get the picture. What's the problem now? That one map out of 32 isn't to your liking? Man, I wish I had enough time to get upset about shit like that.

It's the same thing with seemingly plenty of other secret maps. I already stated that two other popular megawads happen to do this to you as well.

[leodoom85]

It's a point of view yes, but anyone can think why you like this and why you don't like that with some sort of reasoning.

Time to step out.

Edited May 15, 2018 by leodoom85

[mrthejoshmon]

The funny thing about all this is that simple discussion about slaughter maps usually ends up looking more and more like OG Brutal Doom discussion every single day.

 

Can't wait for the "slaughter maps are overrated" threads... Because that'd be impossible because it has already happened.

[Nine Inch Heels]

25 minutes ago, AbsorbedHatch said:

It's the same thing with seemingly plenty of other secret maps. I already stated that two other popular megawads happen to do this to you as well.

Then it's still one map in a large bundle that you don't happen to like. And instead of just accepting that some stuff just isn't for you, and moving on with your life, you're creating a thread to throw around your frustration with how one thing out of 32 rubs you the wrong way. To make matters worse, you keep beating the same damn drum which is basically "RRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! How dare they make maps I don't like?" even though your question's been answered on the first page already. Get over it, or git gud. Your choice.

[Fonze]

SelfAbsorbedHatch (and I say that with love, else I wouldn't waste my time typing this post) I'm gonna try to help you understand part of the problem here that is causing people to respond negatively towards you:

 

1 hour ago, AbsorbedHatch said:

Should they be punished for finding them?

 

Your word choice conveys your attitude very well, if you understand what I'm saying. You word it as if players are being "punished" with lots of stuff to kill. Maybe some, or many for that matter, players and mappers like to shoot lots of stuff. Maybe they don't see it as punishment at all, but more-so as a fun interlude purely for the sake of fun from the standard stuff of the megawad. And finally maybe they also know that people like you will make big hissy-fits about them so they hide them away behind 2 secret exits in hopes that players will only go through the trouble of reaching them if they actually want to play something that doesn't necessarily fit into the main gimmicks of the megawad. Honestly a secret map that is essentially a regular map but in slots 31-32 is a bit of a let-down to me; that's the chance for the author(s) to cut loose and flex their juicy creative muscles.

 

Also like 90+% of maps are designed for pistol starts, so if you feel punished for finding the "super secret" level, just idclev16 and play map16 the way it was probably designed anyway.

 

Hope this helps :D

[Quagsire]

The issue is, some megawads overdo this aspect. I mean sure, throw in a ton of hell knights. Throw in plenty of revenants! But please for the love god all that is god don't place in 30 different archviles near each other. This happens to be a issue mostly with Scythe, but I'm sure other people do it too. It's another major issue I have with slaughtermaps. I enjoy killing tons of enemies, but what I don't enjoy is having to clean up the same mess over and over again. Going at the same enemies I already killed as if they never actually died.

[[McD] James]

8 minutes ago, AbsorbedHatch said:

But please for the love god all that is god don't place in 30 different archviles near each other. 

1

 

Some people are into that sort of thing. This really shouldn't be an issue, and yet here we are. Good grief. 

[NuMetalManiak]

Why do you keep using Scythe as an example to dictate MAP32 slaughtermaps with archies?

 

Here's two lists of megawads I know of:

 

Non-slaughter MAP32's: 10 Sectors, 10 Sectors 2, 1994 Tune Up Community Project, 2048 Unleashed, 50 Monsters (duh), The Abyss, A.L.T., Ancient Aliens, And the Bloodshed Began, Armadosia, Bella II, Bloodstain, Claustrophobia 1024, Cleimos, Community Chest, Community Chest 2, Community Chest 3, Countdown to Extinction, Demonfear, Deus Vult 2, Doom 2, Doom 2 In Name Only, Doom 2 Redux (I think, been a while since I played), Doom 2 Reloaded, Doom 2 The Way id Did, Doom Core (except maybe the outdoor area), Epic 2, Eternal Doom III, Eviltech, Evilution, Five Rooms of Doom, Fragport, Good Morning Phobos, H2H-Xmas, Hadephobia (not sure about this one), Hellbound, Herian 2, Heroes Tales, Icarus (although you can make this some kind of slaughter, I'd imagine, but it's not really true slaughter), Interception, Japanese Community Project, Jenesis, Killing Adventure, Khorus' Speedy Shit, Mano Laikas, Mars War, Mayhem 1500 (?, been a while since I played it but it was a joe-ilya map), Mayhem 2048, Memento Mori, Memento Mori II, Moonblood, NDCP, NDCP2, NOVA, Plutinya, Realm of Chaos, Rebirth, Requiem, Reverie, Revolution!, Strain (I think), Sunlust, Super Mayhem 17, Swift Death, Talosian Incident, TNT Revilution, Twilight Zone, Twilight Zone 2, Unholy Realms, Valiant, Vilecore, Vile Flesh, Whispers of Satan, Zone 300, Zones of Fear

 

Slaughter MAP32's: 3 heures d'agonie 3, Alien Vendetta, BTSX, Claustrophobia 1024 2, Community Chest 4, Congestion 1024 (somewhat), Doom 2 Unleashed, ESP, Estranged, Going Down, Hell Revealed, Hell Revealed II, Illuminatus, Kama Sutra (though MAP31 is worse), Mini level Megawad, NOVA II (noisyvelvet and tourniquet's sections only), Plutonia, Plutonia 2, PRCP, Resurgence, Scythe, Scythe 2, SF2011, SF2012, Speed of Doom, Whitemare 2

 

I have way too much fucking time on my hands, but the gist here is that the majority of MWs do not have slaughermaps in MAP32. Don't pay too much attention to the ones that do have them as slaughtermaps in MAP32 slot.

 

I feel awful making this post.