Andy Olivera Mapset Project [-complevel 9]

[baja blast rd.]

Andy Olivera has been tirelessly maintaining the invaluable resource that is the Speed Demos Archive for quite some time. I had the idea of designing a short map at some point as a token of appreciation, and since at least a few capable mappers frequent this subforum and the DSDA, I think it would work well as a mini community project. 

 

I posted it here and not in Wads & Mods, because I specifically want to encourage regulars of this subforum to get involved.

 

Themes and guidelines: 

 

1. Uses the Return resources.

2. General guideline: relatively small maps are fine (think Scythe size, although with your preferred flavor of gameplay). Quality beats quantity here. 

3. If you are up for the task, try to make something that might be suitable for TAS max optimization -- not with the expectation that Andy will run the maps, of course, but rather to reflect his historical interest in TAS maxing.

4. A silly bonus theme exclusively for a secret map: a map built around two combat arenas shaped like an 'A' and 'O'. (Someone should claim this before starting work on it.) 

5. Place MP starts. Extensive balancing for MP is not mandatory, but additional things here and there won't hurt. 

6. Skill levels: some attention to HNTR and HMP is a good idea, especially if your map is on the harder side. 

 

Deadline:

 

The end of 2018 -- a fairly lax one just to allow for wider participation. 

 

Happy mapping!  

Edited June 18, 2018 by rdwpa

[rehelekretep]

nice idea!

with this and the ToD-themed DWMP i should really try and do some mapping >.<

[GarrettChan]

Definitely support this project but don't know how to map right now. Probably I can enroll as a test player or something. Anyway, good luck with the project, rd.

[TheV1perK1ller]

Count me in. It is about time I contributed to something.

[TheV1perK1ller]

One question, since this is the first community project I'm mapping for, say I wanted to take the MAP12 slot for example, would I have to open up MAP12 in Doom Builder? Or is MAP01 sufficient, and the level is slotted accordingly by another? Thanks. 

[baja blast rd.]

We'll figure out a good order after we have the maps, so everything should be submitted as map 01. 

 

Some other details for people who might be newer mappers: 

 

- Complevel 9 is 'Boom: Doom 2 (Doom Format)' in DB.

- Custom music can be included. Add the midi to your wad in SLADE and rename it D_RUNNIN (the designated music name for 01) and it'll play. When the wad is compiled and map slots are changed, your midi will be renamed appropriately for its slot, so no need to worry about that. 

- The Return resources can be loaded alongside your wad; don't add those to your wad itself. 

[TheV1perK1ller]

Awesome. Thanks. I'll make a start on my map in a short while.

[Catpho]

And then this is moved to speed demos forum? Aint this a map project?

[baja blast rd.]

^ This is the original location.

 

Quote

I posted it here and not in Wads & Mods, because I specifically want to encourage regulars of this subforum to get involved.

 

[Memfis]

Any ideas on what makes maps good for TAS maxing?

[Keyboard_Doomer]

Presumably all the stuff that makes them terrible for non-TAS maxing.

[riderr3]

2 hours ago, Memfis said:

Any ideas on what makes maps good for TAS maxing?

Make them less grinding.

[Bob9001]

I've already got a map in development, would that be allowed to be used?

 

12 hours ago, riderr3 said:

Make them less grinding.

 

I'm also confused by this? Grinding a map would make it a slaughter type map right?

[baja blast rd.]

15 hours ago, Memfis said:

Any ideas on what makes maps good for TAS maxing?

 

I think that most normal maps that allow the player to know when the run is going well as they are assembling the run might meet a bare minimum of suitability. Taking it further, opportunities for clever manipulation, but without an 'optimal outcome' being too improbable or being dependent on a butterfly effect of events that make it impossible to tell if the run will be good without doing lots of work that might have to be thrown out. 

 

But I don't want everyone to feel as if they have to design a map with this in mind. It's just something to try for those who are interested in the idea. Focusing on making a solid map is more important.

 

[Bob9001]

So basically just to clarify, just make a map but make it to quality?

 

Am I getting the right take away from your message?

 

Also with the resources that we use, can I say for example use PLUTONIA.wad aswell as return? Since it has to be Doom 2 configuration.

[baja blast rd.]

Correct. Don't worry if you're not an experienced mapper and don't think you can make a good map -- I (and others) will give as many rounds of feedback as you want, to help improve stuff. Just try your best. The mapset will be designed for doom2.wad with retres.wad resources, so don't use Plutonia stuff. 

 

I missed your earlier question: if you feel like designing/retexturing it to fit, sure. 

 

Edited May 22, 2018 by rdwpa

[vdgg]

No idea if I find time to take part in this, this may be the only community project I consider, with strong preference to individual maps.

 

Regarding what's good and not for TAS maxing, from my experience: not too much infighting-dependant (or small infighting setpieces, with a result easy to predict), a berserk pack is present, but is not the main weapon (looks too artificial to me to 2-punch all revs, 3-punch all hell knights etc. and do nothing else in the map), no wandering monsters, no faraway cacos and a small-to-medium map.

[SAV88]

@vdgg

 

Grand levels are also interesting for TAS maxing IMO, as it's impressive to see a grand adventure full of varied battles being finished in a quick time, such as your 9:58 on Eternal MAP29. Nowadays, my time of maxing AV20 with savegames (but without slo-mo) is well under 10 minutes, and a truly hardworked modern-quality TAS would be even speedier.

[Bob9001]

9 hours ago, rdwpa said:

Correct. Don't worry if you're not an experienced mapper and don't think you can make a good map -- I (and others) will give as many rounds of feedback as you want, to help improve stuff. Just try your best. The mapset will be designed for doom2.wad with retres.wad resources, so don't use Plutonia stuff. 

 

I missed your earlier question: if you feel like designing/retexturing it to fit, sure. 

 

Ok good, yeah I'm not an experienced mapper but I know enough to not make a bad map haha. Alright gotcha! I'll make a start on it later today.

Small to medium? So that's like a monster count of 50-150 and secret count of maybe 3-4?

[TheV1perK1ller]

Quick question, are the maps strictly to use the textures from retres.wad, or are Doom II textures allowed to be used alongside it? Thanks.

[baja blast rd.]

8 hours ago, Bob9001 said:

Ok good, yeah I'm not an experienced mapper but I know enough to not make a bad map haha. Alright gotcha! I'll make a start on it later today.

Small to medium? So that's like a monster count of 50-150 and secret count of maybe 3-4?

 

I wouldn't be comfortable giving a concrete measurement -- there are many maps with 150 monsters that are fairly lengthy, and many with 500+ that are small and short. Larger maps are fine too. But I mostly want people to be comfortable with submitting smaller maps. 

 

35 minutes ago, TheV1perK1ller said:

Quick question, are the maps strictly to use the textures from retres.wad, or are Doom II textures allowed to be used alongside it? Thanks.

 

Both retres.wad and stock Doom II textures can be used, whatever combination ends up working for you. 

[GarrettChan]

@TheV1perK1llerSuddenly I remember that you're a keyboard Doomer like SAV88. Probably somebody can make a thing that it feels better for keyboarder instead of usually mouse/keyboard being better? (Of course, after I have this idea, I feel it's ridiculous that probably it's impossible to make it happen.)

[TheV1perK1ller]

50 minutes ago, GarrettChan said:

Probably somebody can make a thing that it feels better for keyboarder instead of usually mouse/keyboard being better?

Hmm, while it does sound like an interesting concept, I feel like there is little to no deviation between how keyboarders and mouse users play Doom. Not to worry though, I do have an idea for my map now. Here's hoping my perfectionism won't prevent me from finishing before the deadline. :)

[Bob9001]

23 hours ago, rdwpa said:

I wouldn't be comfortable giving a concrete measurement -- there are many maps with 150 monsters that are fairly lengthy, and many with 500+ that are small and short. Larger maps are fine too. But I mostly want people to be comfortable with submitting smaller maps.

 

Yeah that's what I thought. I have already begun working on my map, so I might make it pretty spaced out but with less than 200 Monsters.

 

Do we post the maps in this thread when ready to be tested/completed?

[Bob9001]

Here's a few screenies of the map I'm working on:

 

Spoiler

 

Don't have a name for this yet, I'm about 35-40% completed the map.

 

Also, I'd like to know if I could have the Map32 slot? @rdwpa

Edited June 8, 2018 by Bob9001 : Two more screeshots added

[TheV1perK1ller]

Looking good, Bob! Can't wait to see (and play) the end result. Mine is still coming along nice and slowly. 
I think the maps will be arranged at the end depending on their difficulty, but I'm not too sure.

[Bob9001]

8 hours ago, TheV1perK1ller said:

Looking good, Bob! Can't wait to see (and play) the end result. Mine is still coming along nice and slowly. 
I think the maps will be arranged at the end depending on their difficulty, but I'm not too sure.

Thank you! same goes to you too.

Yeah, maybe but I feel my map is more designed for the 2nd secret map slot. But I'm happy whereever it ends up.

[Bob9001]

Check out 2 new screenies :) Showing the Red key and Blue key areas.

 

About 60-70% complete now. Just got to do the end of the level plus some tweaks here and there. Monster Count is about 340 at the moment, gonna try and keep it under 550ish.

@TheV1perK1ller Hoping to see some screenshots from you soon :D

[TheV1perK1ller]

Two more questions, sorry;

With music selection, would tracks from Perditions Gate be allowed? 

Also, once we complete our maps and submit them here, do we include with it a readme detailing information such as the map name, author, music source, and optional par time and map description?

Sorry, very new to the mapping scene. Thanks.

[baja blast rd.]

4 hours ago, TheV1perK1ller said:

Two more questions, sorry;

With music selection, would tracks from Perditions Gate be allowed? 

Also, once we complete our maps and submit them here, do we include with it a readme detailing information such as the map name, author, music source, and optional par time and map description?

Sorry, very new to the mapping scene. Thanks.

 

No problem. Tracks from Perdgate are allowed (any custom midi that doesn't forbid use elsewhere should be fine).

 

I'd like to put together an 'extra info' text file, so extra commentary on your map and the midi source are what would be necessary. 

 

On the subject for par times, if you have one in mind, I can work with that, but otherwise playtesting can sort those out.