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Jaska

RC: Lost civilization, episode 1. Feedback appreciated!

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Damn.. This should have been gone to the "wads & mods"...

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Posted (edited)

Awesome! Downloading now!

I'll get back to you on this one.

 

Just finished MAP01.

Only got two screenshots, but they were of my favorite spots, both in secrets.

DzYcZif.png

That is so pretty! I'm so using that aesthetic in my own mod, which should work well since its first few maps (minus the prologue) are an underground city.

 

C7A99DF.png

I seriously thought this was the secret at first, and I was totally okay with it, then I found that nice little SSG.

 

The gameplay was solid, I liked the long range slinging matches and the teleporting monsters in to fight. It wasn't that rough, which was really good because my framerate averaged probably 12 fps. The environment really made the fights interesting because there were many ways to tackle individual engagements, which is great.

 

The superb natural aesthetic was what got me in the first place, and seeing where you went with it, it was so cool. Normally I don't care for appearances, but I'll make an exception here. The better part of it was it didn't get in the way when it was time to duke it out with the monsters. I really liked the extra things in the distance, because they added so much depth to the world, which is why I would've been perfectly fine with a completely scenic secret.

 

I liked the nonlinearity to it all, it granted so much freedom to explore and find my own path, but it wasn't a quicksand box that sucks you down forever and you get lost until you get bored.

 

I managed to find six of seven secrets and I noticed there were two red cards and two yellow cards, which I thought to be a little bizarre, but the secrets were nicely hidden, but still easy enough to find and always worth getting.

 

I am so excited to check out the rest of the maps, even if I have to do it in slow motion because my graphics chip deserves an A+.

Edited by Aquila Chrysaetos : Proper review.

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So some of the maps that you realeased in old thread will be featured in the next episodes? Going to play this soon btw.

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4 hours ago, gaspe said:

So some of the maps that you realeased in old thread will be featured in the next episodes? Going to play this soon btw.

Yes, maybe all. Wanted to change the order of the maps. I'm not still sure if this is the best but I'll go with it.

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Nice. Btw hows the progress on the others? I'm conflicted whether to play it right now or wait for the full package :P

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4 minutes ago, Catpho said:

Nice. Btw hows the progress on the others? I'm conflicted whether to play it right now or wait for the full package :P

 

About 8 out of 14 are quite ok but I'm going to take a little break from mapping so I've no idea when next release is. And I think I'm keeping these maps as they are now. Of course I change things if someone notices unbalanced things, bugs, improvements etc.

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Posted (edited)

I took a look at Map 05. I didn't notice the title until I beat it, and it was very appropriate, but not in a bad way. As usual, excellent visuals and exploration. I also thought the combat was very well done. The first part especially was deceptively challenging; it really felt like you were at war in hostile territory because they were coming from so many directions and it was almost impossible to memorize the scenery. So it was a nice use of relatively few powerful enemies to put the pressure way on.

 

So yeah, it's good. I played pretty quickly but will sink my teeth in at some point.

Edited by HAK3180 : I had said "errors" instead of "directions" for some reason...?

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@HAK3180

Good that you found your way from the forest :) Hopefully others will also find their way and won't quit the game because they are too lost, huh. As a general note, I did put extra effort to the gameplay.

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Posted (edited)

does this require jumping?

(just figuring out the zerk in map01)

 

guess not, because i did not see the obvious way to it....lol

 

 

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1 minute ago, grrfield said:

does this require jumping?

(just figuring out the zerk in map01)

 

No, jumping is disabled via mapinfo. Use the window to get it.

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ok, i already found it

but next time don't give away the solution so easily....

nojump would have sufficed

thanks anyway

i'm on for a goodlooking mapset

 

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Thanks, I really enjoyed this, aswell as the earlier version. Played through these, and the only thing I feel that maybe could be pointed out is that it's sometimes like the player ambush the monsters when it's supposed to be the other way around. Maybe it was a design choice, and in some cases apparently so, but sometimes it felt like maybe more triggers than just visual were needed. I'm mostly thinking of the first half of "Lost Forest", but there were some other situations aswell.

 

Some details on map 6:

Spoiler

In my first playthrough, the platforms that rises the Cyberdemon and the Arachnotron just outside of the Castle did not trigger. I have not been able to reproduce the error though. The Cyberdemon also seem to have problems to function properly on its platform, it gets stuck for me and is not able to attack. Was the exit supposed to be in the cupboard?

 

The overall scope, level of detail and exploration is impressive. Take your time, looking forward to a final release.

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On 5/22/2018 at 10:42 PM, Jaska said:

This contains 6 maps:

 

Hmm... the download has 9 maps?

 

Anyway map05 and map06 were new to me. Map05, Lost in the Forest, truly lives up to it's name (as @HAK3180 also mentioned). I got lost in the cave-forest section but with the help of the automap it wasn't hard to find new unexplored areas. So I got lost but not stuck. In other words, I did not have a clear sense of where I was but despite that I always progressed in the map.

After the cave-forest (or when getting to the upper area of the cave) the level design guided nicely where to go next. It was done with nice subtlety and possibly goes unnoticed on the first play giving the player a feeling of "I know where I'm going! I'm not lost!"

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9 hours ago, SP_FACE1 said:

 

Hmm... the download has 9 maps?

 

Anyway map05 and map06 were new to me. Map05, Lost in the Forest, truly lives up to it's name (as @HAK3180 also mentioned). I got lost in the cave-forest section but with the help of the automap it wasn't hard to find new unexplored areas. So I got lost but not stuck. In other words, I did not have a clear sense of where I was but despite that I always progressed in the map.

After the cave-forest (or when getting to the upper area of the cave) the level design guided nicely where to go next. It was done with nice subtlety and possibly goes unnoticed on the first play giving the player a feeling of "I know where I'm going! I'm not lost!"

I forgot to delete older maps from the previous release. So should I make more landmarks into that forest section?

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On 5/23/2018 at 10:52 PM, wintertowns said:

Thanks, I really enjoyed this, aswell as the earlier version. Played through these, and the only thing I feel that maybe could be pointed out is that it's sometimes like the player ambush the monsters when it's supposed to be the other way around. Maybe it was a design choice, and in some cases apparently so, but sometimes it felt like maybe more triggers than just visual were needed. I'm mostly thinking of the first half of "Lost Forest", but there were some other situations aswell.

 

Some details on map 6:

  Reveal hidden contents

In my first playthrough, the platforms that rises the Cyberdemon and the Arachnotron just outside of the Castle did not trigger. I have not been able to reproduce the error though. The Cyberdemon also seem to have problems to function properly on its platform, it gets stuck for me and is not able to attack. Was the exit supposed to be in the cupboard?

 

The overall scope, level of detail and exploration is impressive. Take your time, looking forward to a final release.

 

Hmm, what triggers you mean?

 

On map6, what a strange bug.. At first I thought that there wouldn't be exit at all. Then I added that "secret exit".

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3 hours ago, Jaska said:

Hmm, what triggers you mean?

 

After doing a bit of research myself, I realize that you have to forgive me for beeing a noob mapper. What I was thinking of probably can't be done in Boom format. I imagined that you could alert or wake up specific monsters with a line special message, but that doesn't seem to be possible in Doom...

 

3 hours ago, Jaska said:

"secret exit"

 

Oh my ;).

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4 hours ago, Jaska said:

should I make more landmarks into that forest section?

I don't know. In any case, due to the name of the map I thought getting lost (without getting stuck) was the purpose of the level. And it did exactly that. Maybe without the automap I might have got frustrated but with the map it was not an issue. TL;DR I liked the cave-section and the whole level a lot.

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I played the first map and liked it a lot. Pretty art that's eye-catching for being mostly brighter green than I'm used to in a Doom wad, but without really detracting from the game. Nice expansive level that effectively punishes you for being complacent, without ever feeling unfair.

 

I was also very impressed by the nice blend of "surreal-vs-realism". You did a good job at making the map feel like an actual believable location, while still keeping a hint of the outlandishness that usually works best for Doom maps, ensuring an exciting ride.

 

I would criticize that the map gives you a berserk pack and a blur orb (partial invisibility) right at the start without any obvious need for them, but I realize that the berserk pack is useful for when you return to that area later and that you can get some use out of the blur orb if you know the following area better (replay value) and that some people will find this preferable.

Personally, I would prefer such powerups be given in areas where there's more of an immediate need for them (I don't care much for picking up a berserk pack merely for the sake of getting a stronger punch unless I know I'm about to face a horde of Pinkies/Spectres without an SSG or a Rocket Launcher with a healthy supply of rockets).

 

And now for a nitpick on the mod overall (do take this comment with a grain of salt): the new sounds for the pistol/chaingun and the shotgun are really nice and badass and all that, but they kinda fall into the category of "too powerful sounding compared to actual damage-dealing ability", which is a bit of a pet peeve of mine.

The worst offender is definitely the pistol/chaingun; the sound makes it feel like the weapon should be capable of at least one-shotting an Imp, but then it does pea-shooter damage and it just feels off.

I realize that real-life weapons are loud and bassy as all Hell, but video game weapons aren't real-life weapons - if you shoot a real-life giant (someone above the height of 2.5 meters) with a combat shotgun, he's not going to just stand there and go "owwww!", nope, he'd drop like a sack of potatoes.

 

At the moment I have nothing further to add that hasn't been said already.

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I recorded demos and fdas (prboom+ cl9), for the new maps the run was blind: joi_lstcv7_demos_gaspe.zip

 

I really liked the previous MAP01 for its setting but this new opener is more suggestive, when you come out from the hills the big cliff structure looks rather imposing. The map turns to be a linear panoramic tour around the rocks but it was cool. I agree that in the starting house you get too many items, the blur sphere isn't necessary imo, and even the secret soulsphere is too much. MAP02 is done in reverse? I remember that the exit was at beach and you started at the river up in the hills. It looks better with this sky. On MAP03 I got stuck in the bridge, you can see that at the end of the demo, there's something to check with the triggers with the self referecing sectors. Nothing to note on MAP04, maybe I would give a SSG at the start. MAP05 was done well and it's a very unique map, and it's indeed easy to get lost. I noticed that the trap where you drop down in the easter area (where there are the archviles on the rock turrets) is cheesable, you can activate the triggers and stay in the safe upper area. MAP06 I liked the structure of the castle, initially I thought that the resolution was too simple but having some simpler level can be a good thing too. I think that it has some problems. The exploration and secrets are too rewarding. The usage of the boos monsters was rather poor. The cyberdemon can be used more to clean the field, and on cl9 it's easy that the monsters get stuck on the borders of the platforms/turrets. The mastermind in its initial position is useless, and it can be killed with few risks, I would make it teleport in the area from a closet directly after you pick the yellow key. The whole part after the yellow bars is uninspired and feel anticlimatic, it gives the impression that it was rushed because you wanted to finish the map quickly.

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And Map 06. Very nice visuals and layout. I'd agree that the castle interior was the weak point here. I guess I'd want it either to be longer or to contain some sort of climactic fight. I did like the room with stairs and revenants though. I also thought there was too much ammo, rockets in particular.  Other than that, though, great map.

 

What makes me sad panda, though, is not seeing The Fort in the wad anymore.

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On 5/27/2018 at 6:32 PM, gaspe said:

I recorded demos and fdas (prboom+ cl9), for the new maps the run was blind: joi_lstcv7_demos_gaspe.zip

 

I really liked the previous MAP01 for its setting but this new opener is more suggestive, when you come out from the hills the big cliff structure looks rather imposing. The map turns to be a linear panoramic tour around the rocks but it was cool. I agree that in the starting house you get too many items, the blur sphere isn't necessary imo, and even the secret soulsphere is too much. MAP02 is done in reverse? I remember that the exit was at beach and you started at the river up in the hills. It looks better with this sky. On MAP03 I got stuck in the bridge, you can see that at the end of the demo, there's something to check with the triggers with the self referecing sectors. Nothing to note on MAP04, maybe I would give a SSG at the start. MAP05 was done well and it's a very unique map, and it's indeed easy to get lost. I noticed that the trap where you drop down in the easter area (where there are the archviles on the rock turrets) is cheesable, you can activate the triggers and stay in the safe upper area. MAP06 I liked the structure of the castle, initially I thought that the resolution was too simple but having some simpler level can be a good thing too. I think that it has some problems. The exploration and secrets are too rewarding. The usage of the boos monsters was rather poor. The cyberdemon can be used more to clean the field, and on cl9 it's easy that the monsters get stuck on the borders of the platforms/turrets. The mastermind in its initial position is useless, and it can be killed with few risks, I would make it teleport in the area from a closet directly after you pick the yellow key. The whole part after the yellow bars is uninspired and feel anticlimatic, it gives the impression that it was rushed because you wanted to finish the map quickly.

 

Noticed you played on HMP. Maybe it was too easy to you. UV is a bit harder. Map04 start is greatly more difficult at least for me (without secrets).

Map01: Changed the soulsphere to easy only. Blur sphere may be unnecesary, but I'll leave it for now. Berserk is set to multiplayer only. Removed some rockets. I thought the previous opener was maybe too explorative and maybe boring. I'm adding it to the final wad but changing the gameplay a bit.

Map02: Yes it's reversed and there are some changes. Fixed buggy waterfall

Map03: Strange bug in the bridge. One activation line's distance to another was less than 16 so changed that.

Map04: There is a ssg in a secret.  And depending on exploration it can be found quite fast. Fixed sky cutout.

Map05: I have to think something to fix getting too much lost.. Fixed the triggers.

Map06: Changed one lift texture to upper unpegged. Aligned other lift's textures. Fixed monsters getting stuck. Added more challenge to the yellow key fight. Removed rockets. Have to think other thing placements also. Actually I got the map to that state 9.2 but yeah, I didn't quite continue it after that.

 

Demos are good to see. Many things can be easily fixed when watching them. On own play I come blind to what I play. I you know what i mean.

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On 5/29/2018 at 6:53 AM, HAK3180 said:

And Map 06. Very nice visuals and layout. I'd agree that the castle interior was the weak point here. I guess I'd want it either to be longer or to contain some sort of climactic fight. I did like the room with stairs and revenants though. I also thought there was too much ammo, rockets in particular.  Other than that, though, great map.

 

What makes me sad panda, though, is not seeing The Fort in the wad anymore.

 

Yeah, the ending wasn't the best. But I think it is also boring that there is always (too) epic fight at the end. But the last fight could still have been better. Removed rockets. The fort will be later on.

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Posted (edited)

I've played the first level yesterday. Very good stuff so far and a great opener:

 

 

 

There's a great adventure feel for this. The natural landscapes are really well detailed and there was a lot of care in creating them. My favorite part is when you start exploring the big island, which has lots of height variations and unique formations, something that is rare in a Doom wad and made this level immediatly remarkable.

 

For that kind of wad (more realistic and adventurous) I wasn't expectiong the gameplay to be good, but that surprised me too. Although most battles the player deals with enemies in his way, there was a good mix of low tier enemies + hitscan that gave enough challenge and at same times things weren't grindy. Also, giving tougher weapons at the beginning was definetly a good decision for me. The experience in the end felt a lot relaxing and fun when normally it would go to the boring territory.

 

In my playthrough, I fucked up things and didn't notice the exit in the beginning lol, but thankfully the spawned enemies lured me back to where I needed to go. Another very good decision, IMO!

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On 5/30/2018 at 4:26 PM, Jaska said:

 

Noticed you played on HMP. Maybe it was too easy to you. UV is a bit harder.

 

Oh crap I usually play on UV but the setting was somehow changed on zdl and I didn't notice it. Glad that the demos were useful anyway. I don't think that getting lost on MAP05 is something that need to be fixed, actually the map is less intricate than what actually it is, the wall of trees look disorienting plus it's a unusual setting that the players won't be familiar with it.

About the ending of MAP06 I agree that you don't always need big epic fights, I'm sure you can come up with something more appropriate, maybe try to work on the map(s) that come after so you can have a more clear idea of what to do for the transition.

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Posted (edited)

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/268129212 (last one played, about an hour in)

 

I'd previously played maps 3 and 4 in a prior playtesting session. (I revisited them both anyway!) This was a fun playthrough overall; great natural detailing throughout, without myself getting lost at any real point. Gameplay was mostly fun, and I look forward to future episodes. (it seems I've played the extra maps 7-9 also in a previous playtesting session, but can't remember when)

 

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I recorded FDAs for the first 4 maps recently: joi_lstcv7_fdas_part1.zip

 

There were a few recommendations I had, but I don't remember them and haven't found the time to watch my demos to remind myself. :D Whatever the recommendations were, they were minor. Really enjoyed what I've played so far, and absolutely beautiful. MAP01 and MAP02 in particular are treats to look at. Gorgeous vistas, inviting and rewarding to explore. I don't usually spend much time trying to max maps on my first playthrough, but MAP03 was fun to explore, so I spent the time. :)

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@Suitepee Yeah, you've played the extra maps. I just forgot to delete them.

 

@benjogami: Maybe the start on map04 is a bit too difficult. Added armor there on UV. I also added another RL and SG to the map. I did also some minor tweaks directly to maps but don't remember anymore what.

Thanks for FDAs and feedback.

 

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