Expansion Packs: Your best, okay, and worst

[Starkiller]

3 minutes ago, scalliano said:

Best: Quake: Scourge of Armagon. When it comes to OG Quake, I'm all about the techbase, which IMO didn't really get a good enough showing in the base game.

 

Meh: Doom 3: Resurrection Of Evil: Fun, but lacking the atmosphere of vanilla D3, although the way they did the retread through Delta Labs was pretty inspired.

 

Worst. Quake II: Ground Zero. TURRETS! NO! PLEASE! NOT THE TURRETS! A shame too, because the Black Widow is one of the most underappreciated bosses in gaming history.

I haven't played the Quake expansion packs, even though I want to so bad. 

 

I always thought Doom 3: Resurrection of Evil was more remembered for it's  double-barreled shotgun (making up for that shitty regular shotgun) than anything.

[Starkiller]

3 minutes ago, SOSU said:

Shadow of the serpent riders for Heretic :D (haven't played many expansions :) )
 

Haven't played Shadow of the Serpent Riders so far in, but I dig the medieval setting. And the weapons are great. Elven Wand is the best Doom starting weapon.

[amackert]

I haven't played a TON of expansions, but the ones I did, my favorites are:

 

Quake: Mission Pack 1 - Lots of interesting stage design here, interesting new enemy types, and a lot of things done in-engine that you just don't see with the original Quake (scripted terrain change sequences, more interesting use of shifting lighting, etc).

 

Painkiller: Battle Out of Hell - Some of the map design isn't as strong as some of the base game's levels, but others are wildly memorable (the amusement park and the orphanage, to name a couple). Overall it was still a lot of fun and only added things where it needed to (new weapons, enemy types, and improved visual options). It fits in nicely with the original.

*Edit - I should probably mention Shadow of the Serpent Riders, but the fact is the retail version of that is the first one I played. I didn't even know until much later it was the base game with an expansion pack built in (kind of like Ultimate DOOM).

[Deleted_Account]

Brood Wars, Beyond The Dark Portal, Opposing Force, Blue Shift, Resurrection of Evil, Sonic and Knuckles are my favorites

[Devalaous]

C&C3 Kane's Wrath and Diablo 2 Lord of Destruction are probably my most remembered expansions

 

Shivering Isles was also good, but I barely remember it these days

[KVELLER]

GOOD

• All of Half-Life's expansions, including Decay (why does no one ever talk about that one?), although admittedly I like the latter a little less.
• Doom 3: Resurrection of Evil.
• Unreal: Return to Na Pali. A bit rough around the edges, but pretty cool nonetheless.
• Blood: Cryptic Passage and the Plasma Pak.

 

OK

• Quake: Scourge of Armagon and Dissolution of Eternity. While I like the maps, the soundtrack butchered the game's atmosphere IMO.
• Quake 2: The Reckoning and Ground Zero. The base game is kinda meh, so the expansions are as well.
• Ultimate Doom. Not the biggest fan of Thy Flesh Consumed, I must say.
• Heretic: Shadow of the Serpent Riders. It didn't bring anything too interesting, and it just drags on for way too long.
• Blood 2: The Nightmare Levels. There's some cool stuff in there, but it's insultingly short.
• Tomb Raider: Unfinished Business. The story for both of them feels like they were taken from a 90's Doom PWAD, and they don't have anything new (besides additional maps, obviously).

 

BAD

• Hexen: Deathkings of the Dark Citadel. Fuck respawning enemies. 'Nuff said.

[Starkiller]

20 minutes ago, KVELLER said:

GOOD

• All of Half-Life's expansions, including Decay (why does no one ever talk about that one?), although admittedly I like the latter a little less.
• Doom 3: Resurrection of Evil.
• Unreal: Return to Na Pali. A bit rough around the edges, but pretty cool nonetheless.
• Blood: Cryptic Passage and the Plasma Pak.

 

OK

• Quake: Scourge of Armagon and Dissolution of Eternity. While I like the maps, the soundtrack butchered the game's atmosphere IMO.
• Quake 2: The Reckoning and Ground Zero. The base game is kinda meh, so the expansions are as well.
• Ultimate Doom. Not the biggest fan of Thy Flesh Consumed, I must say.
• Heretic: Shadow of the Serpent Riders. It didn't bring anything too interesting, and it just drags on for way too long.
• Blood 2: The Nightmare Levels. There's some cool stuff in there, but it's insultingly short.
• Tomb Raider: Unfinished Business. The story for both of them feels like they were taken from a 90's Doom PWAD, and they don't have anything new (besides additional maps, obviously).

 

BAD

• Hexen: Deathkings of the Dark Citadel. Fuck respawning enemies. 'Nuff said.

Can I give out two likes on this post Doomworld? Please? Pretty please? Pretty please with demons on top? 

 

[SaladBadger]

I feel most RTS xpacks are pretty good. Brood war's a huge boost to starcraft, likewise its almost impossible to imagine Age of Empires 2 without Conquerors, or Warcraft 3 without frozen throne, and so on. Games tend to get better with iteration, and most of these are first party, so its not too surprising. I guess blizz has a good track record with first party xpacks also. FPS games have been more hit or miss with me, and the majority of fps xpacks for the games I've played at least are almost always third party affairs. I guess I liked the HL1 ones to some degree, opposing force has enough fun content and blue shift is just basically a level pack so it didn't bug me that much. Beyond that not too much jumps out on the fps xpack front.

[Bridgeburner56]

I'm gonna put Titan Quest:Immortal Throne in the ring as a good one.

[DMPhobos]

7 hours ago, DeadAstronaut said:

For my worst, I have to say Star Wars: Empire At War: Forces of Corruption. Empire At War

You know what... scratch that "Can't think of any bad expansion pack that i've played" on my previous comment, i played Forces of Corruption too and it really broke the game! i hated it so much that i only played 2 missions in the zann campaing, tried a grand campaing game, and then deleted the expansion and continued to play vanilla Empire at War ever since

I had totally forgotten Forces of Corruption, but yeah it was really bad

[Lila Feuer]

GREAT

Wolfenstein 3D: Spear of Destiny - A solidly made and more condensed version of the Wolf3D game.
Carmageddon: Splat Pack - Tougher cars, bigger tracks and even more peds to splatter.
Quake: Scourge of Armagon - Highly detailed levels with quality new content that boasts an increased challenge.
Quake: Dissolution of Eternity - Yet more of the same as the previous with consistent quality.

F.E.A.R.: Extraction Point - Darker, scarier and harder than the base game with some truly memorable scenes.

DECENT

Blood: Plasma Pak - A pretty decent episode with some new content to spice things up.
Heretic: Shadow of the Serpent Riders - Two tough episodes, Heretic's Thy Flesh Consumed.
Hexen: Deathkings of the Dark Citadel - Three harder hubs, not really Hexen's Plutonia but closer to TNT.
Hexen II: Portal of Praevus - A condensed Hexen II game with more action and a new theme.
Postal 2: Paradise Lost - A proper five-day Postal 2 expansion with plenty of new content and more recent humor.

MEH

Carmageddon TDR 2000: Nosebleed Pack - The two new environments are pretty spiffy but there's only two, and the new vehicles are a mixed bag.
Postal: Special Delivery - Only four new levels, a new art direction loses the grit from the original game.
Quake II: The Reckoning - Cool new features, same Quake II game which isn't good to begin with.
Unreal: Return to Na Pali - Initially exciting, but clearly refurbished unused content and overall lesser quality.
F.E.A.R.: Perseus Mandate - Fan-fiction gone retail, initially interesting but quickly succumbs to mediocrity and outstays its welcome.

TRASH

Blood II: The Nightmare Levels - Refurbished unused content that is a mixed bag, awful levels that are unbalanced, very short, and ends on a cliffhanger that will never be resolved.
Quake II: Ground Zero - Less new content than The Reckoning but what's there is a mess, with annoying enemies and lackluster weapons, also it's the same bland Quake II.
Postal 2: Apocalypse Weekend - Frustratingly linear 2-day game that is short, overly scripted, annoying, and worst of all unfunny.
Half-Life: Opposing Force - Poor story, lame new aliens, some cool new weapons that can't save what is ultimately a shorter and weaker Half-Life game that comes off as a glorified mod than a proper continuation of the already established lore.
Quake III: Team Arena - Hahaha, this tried to compete with Unreal Tournament?

I was going to, but won't add Doom 3: Resurrection of Evil, because I hate Doom 3 to begin with.

[ShoDemo]

Best expansions:

Diablo 2 Lord of Destruction was a super fun one. And I got so used to playing Diablo 2 with it, that if you asked me about the expansion's contents, I wouldn't be able to guess even half of that stuff.

 

Hexen Deathknights of the Dark Citadel is also one I enjoyed playing. Maybe it is more of the same with the original game, but that's one of the reasons I found it to be good. Also, iirc, it was slightly more difficult than Hexen and I still remember the crappy start I had with the Cleric. So I took the Fighter and in the end, I played the expansion with him, killing almost everything with the axe (what a fun class - and throwing exploding hammers at Afrits, killing them in one shot, never got old).

 

Good expansion:

Dishonored Knife of Dunwall. Can't remember much about the story now, but the main character was pretty cool and I loved playing an assassin. Also, how it ended and the connection with the main game were done flawlessly.

Too bad I had a normal knife for a weapon, instead of Corvo's butterfly knife-sword or whatever it was.

 

Edit: I forgot the Ultimate Doom. This one is my favourite of them all. Harder Doom 1 gameplay, unique setting for it's time (it wasn't techbasey, but it also wasn't purely hellish) and if course, it is an expansion for my favourite game.

Edited May 25, 2018 by ShoDemo

[Starkiller]

53 minutes ago, Lila Feuer said:

GREAT

Wolfenstein 3D: Spear of Destiny - A solidly made and more condensed version of the Wolf3D game.
Carmageddon: Splat Pack - Tougher cars, bigger tracks and even more peds to splatter.
Quake: Scourge of Armagon - Highly detailed levels with quality new content that boasts an increased challenge.
Quake: Dissolution of Eternity - Yet more of the same as the previous with consistent quality.

F.E.A.R.: Extraction Point - Darker, scarier and harder than the base game with some truly memorable scenes.

DECENT

Blood: Plasma Pak - A pretty decent episode with some new content to spice things up.
Heretic: Shadow of the Serpent Riders - Two tough episodes, Heretic's Thy Flesh Consumed.
Hexen: Deathkings of the Dark Citadel - Three harder hubs, not really Hexen's Plutonia but closer to TNT.
Hexen II: Portal of Praevus - A condensed Hexen II game with more action and a new theme.
Postal 2: Paradise Lost - A proper five-day Postal 2 expansion with plenty of new content and more recent humor.

MEH

Carmageddon TDR 2000: Nosebleed Pack - The two new environments are pretty spiffy but there's only two, and the new vehicles are a mixed bag.
Postal: Special Delivery - Only four new levels, a new art direction loses the grit from the original game.
Quake II: The Reckoning - Cool new features, same Quake II game which isn't good to begin with.
Unreal: Return to Na Pali - Initially exciting, but clearly refurbished unused content and overall lesser quality.
F.E.A.R.: Perseus Mandate - Fan-fiction gone retail, initially interesting but quickly succumbs to mediocrity and outstays its welcome.

TRASH

Blood II: The Nightmare Levels - Refurbished unused content that is a mixed bag, awful levels that are unbalanced, very short, and ends on a cliffhanger that will never be resolved.
Quake II: Ground Zero - Less new content than The Reckoning but what's there is a mess, with annoying enemies and lackluster weapons, also it's the same bland Quake II.
Postal 2: Apocalypse Weekend - Frustratingly linear 2-day game that is short, overly scripted, annoying, and worst of all unfunny.
Half-Life: Opposing Force - Poor story, lame new aliens, some cool new weapons that can't save what is ultimately a shorter and weaker Half-Life game that comes off as a glorified mod than a proper continuation of the already established lore.
Quake III: Team Arena - Hahaha, this tried to compete with Unreal Tournament?

I was going to, but won't add Doom 3: Resurrection of Evil, because I hate Doom 3 to begin with.

Glad I'm not the only one who dislikes Opposing Force. Also, I wish I mentioned F.E.A.R. Extraction Point in my first post, but you beat me to it. 

 

I hated the demo of Blood 2, so I won't bother playing the full game and horrible expansion. 

Edited May 25, 2018 by Starkiller

[Mithral_Demon]

No need for me to mention the obviously listed...

But aren't we forgetting Heroes of Might and Magic 2 and 3 having expansions? ;P

I never understood much of Heroes 2's expansion, only because I had it, and the game still fun otherwise.

Heroes 3 on the other hand I understand. Base game you have solid experience, being able to choose a few classes, expansive maps (and player created included), and a great continuation of Heroes 2's Roland campaign.-- Then Armageddon's Blade comes out, adding quite a bit of content of a new playable class the Nearly-Broken-All-Hell Conflux which utilizes the base games Elementals and brings Phoenix's and Pixies back, several more campaigns, and some artifacts. Shadow's of Death comes out and now we're packing new artifacts, new campaign, and Artifact Combinations.

^^^^ -- Artifact combinations if done fast enough early game turns most fights one sided, and with Conflux, thats adding the final kindling to a fire that screws everything. Doesn't help Conflux's grail monuments is one of the absolute best; Every. Spell. In. The. Game. Including ones your "town" shouldn't have like Death Ripple.

 

But. Here's my meh/worst, more meh because I have't scrambled up too many "expansions" on this level. Black and White 2's expansion. While the battles were more menacing, it was just a few maps and another God Pet to abuse. The base game could have done with an update to enable more pets (without mods), but alas.

[Cruduxy Pegg]

5 hours ago, Lila Feuer said:

TRASH

Blood II: The Nightmare Levels - Refurbished unused content that is a mixed bag, awful levels that are unbalanced, very short, and ends on a cliffhanger that will never be resolved.

 

Well it is an expansion for a horribly unfinished gamee, find it hilarious they released it without giving a shit about finishing Blood 2 itself first.

 

I don't think think Hexen DD is a good expansion. It pretends that it is going to finish the story but it makes less sense than fanfiction about korax making out with corvus in tower of bable. Most of the game is running in the same shitty 4 maps to look for fucking stupidly placed masks you need for other hubs. Barely any scripting which is very weird after hexen show cased the hell out of what can be done with it. Easily one of the most disappointing expansions. Oh it also fixes the complaints about "puzzles" by having nothing but fetch quests. Why the fuck are stalkers EVERYWHERE and they respawn! weren't centaurs annoying enough alone?! The no music bug on release was equally amusing. Were all testers asleep or blasting their own music so loud no one noticed it doesn't play in-game?

 

Heretic Shadow of the serpent riders on the other hand is ok. They start with hard maps but then become a breeze because corvus is that op. At least it ties in a bit with Heretic 2 which is way better than what happens in Hexen DD. Did I also mention it is FREE and practically bug free?!

 

Heroes of might & magic 5 had really nice expansions. So many units to toy with. Too bad even on easy you still have to rush the hell out of maps in the campaign instead of taking your sweet time before stacks of DOOM come to fun police your run.

[Gez]

Let's see what I have. In no particular order, and across different genres.

 

• Warcraft II: Beyond the Dark Portal -- pretty cool, and the hero units were fun at the time. Too bad it eventually resulted in Warcraft III and WOW.
• Heroes of Might & Magic III: Armageddon's Blade and The Shadow of Death -- the Conflux is a bit oddly balanced and themed, but then again it was rushed because the original idea (a cyberpunk-themed side) was scrapped at the last minute. Combination artifacts are overpowered fun.
• Command & Conquer: Covert Operations -- okay, but nothing really special, just a few new missions. The dinosaur Easter egg missions were the most memorable part. New music tracks were appreciated, though.
• Red Alert: Counterstrike and Aftermath -- good stuff, again the giant ants Easter egg campaign was fun, and this time we also get some new units to play with.
• Europa Universalis III: Napoleon's Ambition, In Nomine, Heir to the Throne, Divine Wind -- honestly I've never played the game without the four extensions installed, so I can't really tell how much each expansion individually brings.
• Civilization Beyond Earth: Rising Tide -- basically stuff that should have been in the base game to begin with, it's still very limited even with it. That game could have used more extensions.
• Civilization V: Gods and Kings, Brave New World -- again stuff that should have been in the base game. Make the game feel complete.
• X-Wing: Imperial Pursuit and B-Wing -- excellent stuff, especially B-Wing. Getting to fly a new starfighter type was great
• TIE Fighter: Defender of the Empire -- even better than the B-Wing for its predecessor. I really enjoyed the theme of the technological arms race shifting the way you fight, mirroring in fiction the real world evolution of aerial combat (from close-ranged dogfights with cannons to long-ranged missile warfare).
• Ultima VII: The Forge of Virtue (for part 1: The Black Gate) and The Silver Seed (for part 2: the Serpent Isle) -- okay I guess. Silver Seed was nicer IMO, but then again the Serpent Isle was better overall than the Black Gate, more interesting setting.
• Morrowind: Tribunal and Bloodmoon -- really nice stuff, especially Bloodmoon as Solstheim is a cool setting, pun not intended. Tribunal closes the story of Morrowind's living gods and is probably more interesting storywise, but getting a large new landmass to explore was more fun, and I liked the build-a-settlement sidequest (despite how dumb its villain was).
• Oblivion: Shivering Isles -- so much better than the base game. The Knights of the Nine expansion was cool too.
• Skyrim: Dawnguard, Dragonborn, Hearthfire -- cool. Nice to become a badass vampire-killer with a tricked-out crossbow, revisiting Solstheim was great, and building your own home(s) is more rewarding than just buying a ready-made one.
• Quake: Scourge of Armaggon and Dissolution of Eternity -- I enjoyed the new enemies, new weapons, and alt-ammo gimmicks. Kind of forgot which is which, though; the levels didn't make a lasting impression.
• Wolfenstein: the Nocturnal Missions -- Wolfenstein levels are Wolfenstein levels. Can't find much to say about them. They also started the trend of setting every expansion to Wolf3D to be a prequel, making the timeline really hard to puzzle out.
• Spear of Destiny: Return to Danger and The Ultimate Challenge -- the full reskin of all weapons, enemies, props, and textures is interesting, the levels themselves are what they are. Generally disliked but honestly I can't find them better or worse than the levels made by id. They're Wolfenstein levels. They're just a jumble of cubes.
• Doom: Thy Flesh Consumed; Heretic: Shadow of the Serpent Riders; Hexen: Deathkings of the Dark Citadel -- okay levels generally (my fav in the lot would be SOTSR, but then again, I like Heretic) but it's really lazy not to have had the decency to include new stuff -- some new music, a new enemy or two, perhaps even a new weapon or artifact, new intermaps for TFC and SOTSR, some new textures (good on TFC for at least having a new sky and a new endgame screen, even if it's kind of a lazy edit), etc. The levels are fine but anybody could produce new levels even back then, while only them could add new game mechanics. And Deathkings using the exact same endgame visuals as the base game was really, really annoying. Are you stuck in a time loop or something?

And finally, I'm gonna give my special jury award to Terraria. It never had any separate expansion pack -- instead, the base game itself got extended again and again and again for free. And there's still more coming.

[mrthejoshmon]

Rather than go on about more "modern expansion packs" (because a 45 page manifesto about "why Fallout New Vegas is the greatest game ever" and "Why The Shivering Isles for Oblivion is one of the greatest things of all time ever made" is something no one wants from me) I'll just stick to older "classic" games.

 

Best:

 

Half-Life: Opposing Force, easily the best part of the original Half-Life, clearly our experiences were different in every conceivable way and that is a shame.

 

F.E.A.R: Perseus Mandate is an amazing campaign with great gameplay tweaks and beautiful atmosphere/set pieces, I really enjoyed it.

 

Morrowind: Bloodmoon, Jesus H Christ this one is glorious, so much more to do and see, so much more equipment and weaponry to use and the addition of that werewolf mode... A glorious expansion indeed and well worth it (and I was on the Xbox original version, the PC version is even better apparently).

 

Worst:

 

Duke Nukem 3D: Nuclear Winter, I make it a habit of playing this one every Christmas, not because I'm feeling festive but because I fucking hate myself. This expansion is arse, it looks like shit and has garbage levels with the world's worst ever snowman based enemy who exists just to give you motion sickness, 0/10.

 

Duke Nukem 3D: Duke it Out in DC, I get the impression that the expansion packs for Duke 3D are arse (outside of Caribbean), this one is incredibly dull and underwhelming with some real garbage level design choices later in.

 

The Sims: Making Magic, I really love it when instead of going to work my sim decides to unleash some ancient bloodcurse that dooms everyone in the house to eternal misery, thanks Gonglegarth (he probably did it out of spite for the name I gave him). It's a fun expansion but it can royally end you in an actual playthough if one of your more stupid inhabitants gets "creative", making it quite the hazard (otherwise I wouldn't of even mentioned it).

[DeadAstronaut]

10 hours ago, DMPhobos said:

You know what... scratch that "Can't think of any bad expansion pack that i've played" on my previous comment, i played Forces of Corruption too and it really broke the game! i hated it so much that i only played 2 missions in the zann campaing, tried a grand campaing game, and then deleted the expansion and continued to play vanilla Empire at War ever since

I had totally forgotten Forces of Corruption, but yeah it was really bad

 

 

Yeah, the Zann Consortium are absolutely broken and the most overpowered faction I have ever seen in an RTS game. It's not even a small bit of balance issue, it's a problem on every single scale of the game.

 

In Galactic Conquest they are the absolute worst, since their economy has double (and can even triple) the growth rate vs the Empire and Rebellion and throw in the corruption mechanic which makes it worse. You have to assemble a massive fleet and basically throw everything and the kitchen sink at their level 2 and level 3 space stations, and if you are playing as the Rebellion, you're going to end up losing all those X wing and Y wing squadrons and a bunch of Mon Calamari cruisers. Then on the ground, their buildings are equipped with shields and just simple infantry with the grenade troops can take out most of the Imperial and Rebel ground units. They can even destroy AT-AT walkers. Their heroes are so overpowered on ground maps, you end up having to throw a massive army at just the hero units alone. All their main heroes come with invisibility cloaks and can use them when they're at low health. Just a simple Zann hero can take out cluster groups you send in. 

 

FoC had a lot of good ideas and fan service with the EU stuff, but the Zann Consortium is just waaaaay overpowered and makes the game a frustrating experience. 

 

Thankfully there is a pretty big mod community dedicated to Empire At War and the most popular mod for FoC is the one that completely erases the Zann Consortium from the game and makes it just Rebels vs Empire. Playing with that mod made me realize that all the stuff they added to the Rebels and Empire were meant to just balance the playing field between the two of them.

 

Nothing they added to either factions has a counter for anything the Zann Consortium do. In many ways, the stuff they added to them just put the Rebels and Empire at a disadvantage vs the Consortium all together. There is absolutely no counter whatsoever against the corruption mechanic. I think the Rebels got screwed harder in FoC since it was their fleets that gave them an advantage in the original game. That's a joke in FoC since Rebel fleets just get slaughtered easily by a simple level 2 or level 3 Zann space station and their gunships. The Empire have it slightly easier against them in space, but they still end up losing a bunch of star destroyers and most of their fleet (There is no way to really safely tackle their fleets without Vader and his Super Star Destroyer leading the charge). I hate fighting them in ground combat cause everything added to both factions still can't counter their simple infantry units that can wipe out walkers and tanks. The Empire gets the Dark Troopers, and the level 3 ones are expensive to build and then get slaughtered in seconds by simple grenade infantry and droidekas. FoC added a bunch of heroes to the Rebels, including Luke as a ground unit yet none of them measure up to the Zann heroes. 

 

 

Edited May 25, 2018 by DeadAstronaut

[Cruduxy Pegg]

1 hour ago, mrthejoshmon said:

The Sims: Making Magic, I really love it when instead of going to work my sim decides to unleash some ancient bloodcurse that dooms everyone in the house to eternal misery, thanks Gonglegarth (he probably did it out of spite for the name I gave him). It's a fun expansion but it can royally end you in an actual playthough if one of your more stupid inhabitants gets "creative", making it quite the hazard (otherwise I wouldn't of even mentioned it).

 

Oh you reminded me how much I hated the one with pets. One of the few games where I actively wished my neighbors pets would die just so they stop visiting my house and filling it with invisible piss pools that can't be even cleaned and eventually drives my sims insane. Doesn't help that my pets were like having an even worse toddler most of the time.

[Starkiller]

36 minutes ago, DeadAstronaut said:

 

 

Yeah, the Zann Consortium are absolutely broken and the most overpowered faction I have ever seen in an RTS game. It's not even a small bit of balance issue, it's a problem on every single scale of the game.

 

In Galactic Conquest they are the absolute worst, since their economy has double (and can even triple) the growth rate vs the Empire and Rebellion and throw in the corruption mechanic which makes it worse. You have to assemble a massive fleet and basically throw everything and the kitchen sink at their level 2 and level 3 space stations, and if you are playing as the Rebellion, you're going to end up losing all those X wing and Y wing squadrons and a bunch of Mon Calamari cruisers. Then on the ground, their buildings are equipped with shields and just simple infantry with the grenade troops can take out most of the Imperial and Rebel ground units. They can even destroy AT-AT walkers. Their heroes are so overpowered on ground maps, you end up having to throw a massive army at just the hero units alone. All their main heroes come with invisibility cloaks and can use them when they're at low health. Just a simple Zann hero can take out cluster groups you send in. 

 

FoC had a lot of good ideas and fan service with the EU stuff, but the Zann Consortium is just waaaaay overpowered and makes the game a frustrating experience. 

 

Thankfully there is a pretty big mod community dedicated to Empire At War and the most popular mod for FoC is the one that completely erases the Zann Consortium from the game and makes it just Rebels vs Empire. Playing with that mod made me realize that all the stuff they added to the Rebels and Empire were meant to just balance the playing field between the two of them.

 

Nothing they added to either factions has a counter for anything the Zann Consortium do. In many ways, the stuff they added to them just put the Rebels and Empire at a disadvantage vs the Consortium all together. There is absolutely no counter whatsoever against the corruption mechanic. I think the Rebels got screwed harder in FoC since it was their fleets that gave them an advantage in the original game. That's a joke in FoC since Rebel fleets just get slaughtered easily by a simple level 2 or level 3 Zann space station and their gunships. The Empire have it slightly easier against them in space, but they still end up losing a bunch of star destroyers and most of their fleet (There is no way to really safely tackle their fleets without Vader and his Super Star Destroyer leading the charge). I hate fighting them in ground combat cause everything added to both factions still can't counter their simple infantry units that can wipe out walkers and tanks. The Empire gets the Dark Troopers, and the level 3 ones are expensive to build and then get slaughtered in seconds by simple grenade infantry and droidekas. FoC added a bunch of heroes to the Rebels, including Luke as a ground unit yet none of them measure up to the Zann heroes. 

 

 

Goodness. If you thought the Zann Consortium was bad, Yuri's faction in Red Alert 2 is on par with it's own overpowered technology.

 

What makes Yuri (I'm going to call his faction Epsilon since it sounds better) overpowered are these two factors: Mind control and resource gathering. Their mind control is broken in and out of itself, owing because they can grind up those controlled units for a satisfying amount of cash, providing them a virtually unlimited economy. Their resource gathering system allows them to expand and reach ore fields as both a buildible structure and vehicle, whereas the Allies and Soviets don't have that system. Despite all of that though, Epsilon is not any bad than the other factions, having good tanks, versatile and powerful base defense's, and excellent basic infantry.

 

There is a reason why the faction is banned in most multiplayer matches. 

[Lila Feuer]

2 hours ago, Gez said:

• Spear of Destiny: Return to Danger and The Ultimate Challenge -- the full reskin of all weapons, enemies, props, and textures is interesting, the levels themselves are what they are. Generally disliked but honestly I can't find them better or worse than the levels made by id. They're Wolfenstein levels. They're just a jumble of cubes.

Actually the levels are really, really badly designed, with lots of straight up mazes, like actual maze-mazes, and endless winding corridors, lots of empty rooms and hallways, insultingly easy exits that the mappers defended as 'speed running', mandatory pushwalls to complete levels, no interesting environmental setpieces or object arrangements, haphazard and cheap enemy placement. It's literally just selling the fancy new graphics and redone audio and calling it a day on level design. It's easy to pump out Wolf maps because they're so simple, but it takes some actual effort and an understanding of the game's strengths and weaknesses in its design to make something that actually looks decent and plays well, otherwise there wouldn't be a scene for it still.
 

 

Edited May 25, 2018 by Lila Feuer

[Starkiller]

10 minutes ago, Lila Feuer said:

Actually the levels are really, really badly designed, with lots of straight up mazes, like actual maze-mazes, and endless winding corridors, lots of empty rooms and hallways, insultingly easy exits that the mappers defended as 'speed running', mandatory pushwalls to complete levels, no interesting environmental setpieces or object arrangements, haphazard and cheap enemy placement. It's literally just selling the fancy new graphics and redone audio and calling it a day on level design. It's easy to pump out Wolf maps because they're so simple, but it takes some actual effort and an understanding of the game's strengths and weaknesses in its design to make something that actually looks decent and plays well, otherwise there wouldn't be a scene for it still.
 

 

 I always hated the look and feel of  the Spear of Destiny mission packs. Something about them just doesn't feel like Wolfenstein. Never beaten them, and probably not worth playing.

[seed]

Geez, so much hate for OP4.

 

I haven't played lots of (PC) games (and still haven't finished some of the classics I started a while ago up to this day), and DLCs/expansions aren't usually my thing, if the base game is garbage I couldn't care less about them. Either way this is going to be an underwhelming list I guess, but whatever.

 

Good:

 

Half-Life: Opposing Force: Surprised? Shouldn't. It's easily the best expansion for the game. New guns, new enemies, and locations. The new weapons are top notch, I always thought the original should've featured more alien weapons than it did, the Hivehand was nice but beside it there's only the Snarks, and they were annoying since there's so few instances where they're efficient and an annoyance all the other times. The Shock Roach, the detached Barnacle, and the other one whose name I forgot were really fun to use, although the Barnacle was best used as a rappelling device of sorts since it was useless against tougher enemies. And the one whose name I forgot? I love making enemies explode with it xd. Plus there's also some new rifles, machine gun, and much more. Some people have complained about the Black Ops but they were a thing even in the original game, except for the male troops which, for some reason, were completely missing. Probably because they were much less agile than the females who were pretty damn deadly. The friendly AI was garbage though, that's very true and one of its major flaws. They were virtually useless, got in the way, and were always a burden, save for the few instances you were forced to rely on them to open a door. And the rope climbing parts were shit since you ended up taking damage in a way or another. Despite its obvious flaws it's a fantastic expansion, if only it was a bit longer.

 

Skyrim: Dragonborn: Now that was an awesome expansion, Solstheim was a great setting for the action and so were the new enemies and characters introduced, in fact, I almost prefer the DLC over the entire base game. Also Neloth was that cunt you just couldn't hate even if you wished to, his questline was pretty fun with all the experiments he did on you, the expeditions, and the search for a new apprentice for him. "The boy makes a dreadful cup of Canis Root tea" ahahaha. But that Orc Drovas owed... what a scumbag, at some point after refusing to pay Drovas' debt he attacks you. Well fuck you, it's about time I trampled you under my foot, where you belong. Hermaeus Mora was as intriguing and oddly pleasant to be around as usual. If it wasn't for Molag Bal he'd probably be my favorite Daedric Prince, but then most Princes are awesome, although Namira's quest was a bit underwhelming. But Molag Bal... "AHAHAHAHAHA. You mortals and your frail, limp, pathetic bodies. Try it again!" I'll never get tired of his voice and quotes, he also illustrates my destructive side with great accuracy. As a matter of fact pretty much all my characters were Daedra worshipers, with very few exceptions such as Akatosh I can't stand the Aedra. And by the way, Sithis is neither Aedra nor Daedra, don't do the mistake of saying it's one or the other.

 

Decent/Meh:

 

Duke Nukem 3D: Life's a Beach: Nice new sounds, levels, and weapons, but not much else to see.

Skyrim: Dawnguard: It's actually great, but I always thought at least a few of the things it introduces should've been part of the base game. It's also absolutely terrible from a technical POV. What the fuck did the testers play, seriously, a large numbers of (radiant) quests are bugged and can't be completed after you reach a certain point, not to mention that not completing a stupid quest in the Soul Cairn during your visit turns the game into an unstable mess. Plus bugged Shouts and many other annoyances. Without the Unofficial Patches don't even think about starting the questline... Or, to be fair the main questline of the expansion is fine, but after it's finished you're left with plenty of bugged radiant or side quests, especially on the Volkihar side. Best to leave Dawnguard for the very end of the game when all you might be left with are nothing but radiant quests.

Half-Life: Blue Shift: It's good but introduces almost nothing new to the gameplay, no enemies, no weapons, nothing, just new levels, HUD, armor instead of hazard suit, and characters. It's biggest problem is that it's far, far too short, OP4 was noticeably longer and also more fun. There's no final boss either.

 

Bad:

 

Duke Nukem: Duke it Out in DC: Just a couple of new levels that don't bring anything new at all. To add insult to the injury it's also very, very forgettable. Beside the White House I remember nothing from the entire expansion, it's never good to create something that doesn't leave any impression on you, it says a lot about the quality.

 

6 hours ago, mrthejoshmon said:

Morrowind: Bloodmoon, Jesus H Christ this one is glorious, so much more to do and see, so much more equipment and weaponry to use and the addition of that werewolf mode... A glorious expansion indeed and well worth it (and I was on the Xbox original version, the PC version is even better apparently).

Duke Nukem 3D: Nuclear Winter, I make it a habit of playing this one every Christmas, not because I'm feeling festive but because I fucking hate myself. This expansion is arse, it looks like shit and has garbage levels with the world's worst ever snowman based enemy who exists just to give you motion sickness, 0/10.

 

Duke Nukem 3D: Duke it Out in DC, I get the impression that the expansion packs for Duke 3D are arse (outside of Caribbean), this one is incredibly dull and underwhelming with some real garbage level design choices later in.

 

Mostly agreed. Haven't played Bloodmoon by myself yet but from what I've seen so far and read, it looks pretty darn good. A great expansion to an already fantastic game.

 

Most of DN expansions are crappy indeed, and very forgettable. Life's a Beach is pretty much the only one I consider any good.

Edited May 25, 2018 by Agent6

[Starkiller]

I'm going to add in the Spear of Destiny: Return to Danger and The Ultimate Challenge as some of the worst expansion packs I've played. Feels less like Wolf 3D and Spear of Destiny, more like a ripoff. 

 

That, and the Duke Nukem expansions. 

[Lila Feuer]

1 hour ago, Starkiller said:

 I always hated the look and feel of  the Spear of Destiny mission packs. Something about them just doesn't feel like Wolfenstein. Never beaten them, and probably not worth playing.

The new sprites and tile sets were actually put to good use in addons, albeit recolored to look better. You're not missing anything with the maps however, I regret going through them again last time. I've beaten them a total of three times and that's more than anyone should have to, if you want proper sequels to Spear of Destiny, play Spear Resurrection and Spear End of Destiny instead.

[Vermil]

StarCraft Brood War and Ultimate Doom are probably my favourite official expansions.

 

I can't say I've ever played a 'bad' official expansion.

[DeadAstronaut]

5 hours ago, Starkiller said:

Goodness. If you thought the Zann Consortium was bad, Yuri's faction in Red Alert 2 is on par with it's own overpowered technology.

 

What makes Yuri (I'm going to call his faction Epsilon since it sounds better) overpowered are these two factors: Mind control and resource gathering. Their mind control is broken in and out of itself, owing because they can grind up those controlled units for a satisfying amount of cash, providing them a virtually unlimited economy. Their resource gathering system allows them to expand and reach ore fields as both a buildible structure and vehicle, whereas the Allies and Soviets don't have that system. Despite all of that though, Epsilon is not any bad than the other factions, having good tanks, versatile and powerful base defense's, and excellent basic infantry.

 

There is a reason why the faction is banned in most multiplayer matches. 

 

I haven't played Red Alert 2, but loved the original Red Alert. 

 

Empire At War had a multiplayer back in the day and I'd argue that it would've been more fun had the Zann Consortium been banned because everyone hated them except people who played as them.  When that expansion pack came out, Rebel players disappeared all together and became a rare sight. They already were at a disadvantage online in the original game due to how difficult they are to manage in ground combat, but with the Zann Consortium in the game, that crushed the one good thing about using the Rebellion - space combat. Imperial players were still around cause their faction can assemble big armies quickly, but they still didn't have much of an answer to the Zann Consortium. 

 

It kinda reminds me of Warcraft 3 and how it added two races to the game. Warcraft 3 was never as balanced as the original game and it's sequel or Starcraft, but they still managed to make that game with the addition of the Undead and Night Elf factions. Speaking of W3, that expansion was a lot of fun. Frozen Throne had a real challenging campaign that was fun to play through. 

 

 

 

 

 

[DeadAstronaut]

 

Seeing Diablo 2 mentioned here a couple times, I'm curious if anyone ever played the Hellfire expansion to the original game. 

 

I had no idea an expansion existed to the original Diablo back in the day. I only learned about it on the internet many years after Diablo 1 had died out in favor of Diablo 2. 

 

Diablo 1 I liked better and it certainly has fans, but we tend to be more of a small niche of dedicated players. Nostalgia plays a key role in the love for the old game, since Diablo 2 is a great improvement over it. The original game hasn't been updated since 2000 and I never figured out how to get it to run on Windows 10, so safe to say I have not properly played it in years now (it did work on Windows Vista and 7). The expansion always interested me though. 

[Cruduxy Pegg]

Warcraft 2 and balanced don't go hand to hand in the same sentence.

[Master O]

I'm surprised no one has yet mentioned Shadow Warrior's two mission packs "Wanton Destruction" and "Twin Dragon".  Both are as good as the original game.