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Grain of Salt

Which monster do you neglect when mapping?

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Which monsters do you use least, when you design maps, and why? Would you like to use them more, or do you think you have good reason to neglect them? Conversely, is there a monster you use a lot that you'd like to use less?

 

In my case, I recently decided I underuse cacodemons and mancubi. I suppose because I tend to fall into the trap of thinking of cacodemons as only useful when their abiliity to fly is used. And mancubi I underuse just because I suck at dodging them, I assume.

 

Excluding obvious joke answers like "wolf ss", "commander keen" and "romero head". If you answer with something like this you will activate my trap card and be exiled from doomworld forever.

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[OBVIOUS JOKE ANSWERS REDACTED].

On a serious note, I don't use pinkies very often and I nearly never use spectres, because I never end up building areas where spectres would be of use, in my mind, and pinkies tend to be held for traps and that's it.

I don't use the hitscanners very often because I really don't like them. I say this despite the fact that quite a few of my maps use them rather prolifically.

I'd like to use the Mastermind way more often because it's my favorite monster, but there are so few situations when it's actually really dangerous, so I can't.

Monsters I use too much: I think I probably overuse the imp a little bit, and I suppose the revenants and knights tend to be rather plentiful when I build. Just behind them are the cacos and fatsos, the latter of which also tend to be used for traps often.

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I guess the one monster I'll always "underuse" is the SMM... I don't think this needs much of an explanation, but in case it does: Too big, too prone to dying in infights before if even does anything, unable to move around properly due to size... Yeah, well, sorry, gotta slim down if you wanna fit in my maps ;P

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Cybers and archviles. I use these in almost all of my maps but I typically top out at pedestrian numbers of 'several cybs and 'a few dozen viles'. Zzul maps suggest that optimal values are closer to 'several dozen cybs' and 'a few hundred viles'.

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Ignoring boss monsters, I'd say probably Arachnotrons.  They're big bastards and I kind of have to really think about them ahead of time to make sure architecture can handle them.  Often I'll do a layout and then not use them because I simply haven't included the space to do so.

 

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Predictable answer incoming: I make a conscious effort to pretty much never use barons ever, because I don't like them. They're not fun monsters to me. If I want something like that I'm just going to use a hell knight or two. Perhaps I simply don't make the sort of maps where they work, but mmm I can't see myself ever getting much (if any; I don't actually remember the last time I placed one!!) use out of them.

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7 hours ago, rdwpa said:

Cybers and archviles. I use these in almost all of my maps but I typically top out at pedestrian numbers of 'several cybs and 'a few dozen viles'. Zzul maps suggest that optimal values are closer to 'several dozen cybs' and 'a few hundred viles'.

Embrace your inner Zzul! :-D

 

Seriously, cybers and viles are my favorite monsters, so I'll probably never neglect them. I can't see myself ever placing a PE or a lost soul in any of my maps though. Hitscanners will probably be minimal.

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6 hours ago, Grain of Salt said:

I underuse cacodemons

 

IMO, everyone underuses cacodemons.  More cacodemons!  More!

 

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21 minutes ago, Capellan said:

 

IMO, everyone underuses cacodemons.  More cacodemons!  More!

 

 

Want Cacos? Heat Miser's waiting for you . . . in the alley. ;)

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4 minutes ago, Steve D said:

 

Want Cacos? Heat Miser's waiting for you . . . in the alley. ;)

 

Still doesn't have enough cacos :-P

 

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I underuse Barons because they're annoying unless you really crowd players with them, thus taking advantage of their tankiness.

 

Cacos are my favorite monster, so I use them a lot. They're especially fun in hordes crowding a space.

 

I also love Lost Souls because they're so dynamic. In some of my maps, I've replaced every Baron with 6 Lost Souls -- apiece! -- which results in much more fluid play.

 

I like Wolfies, and use them way more than most mappers. Deal with it. :P

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7 minutes ago, Capellan said:

Still doesn't have enough cacos :-P

 

Sez the guy who never set foot in that map. ;) It's best in UV, of course, but HMP still has a sizeable crowd for a 2048 x 2048 space.  

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In most to least neglected:

 

Keens

Boss Brains

SS Nazis

Arch-Viles

Pain Elementals

Lost Souls

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It's technically not a monster, but I rarely use crushers in my level.

 

Baron of Hell. We already have Hell Knight, which is nearly an identical version of Baron with a half HP. Any custom wad that replaces Baron to something interesting to fight will always get my thumbs-up.

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arachnotrons because they are too damn fat! and to a lesser extent mancubi. i have nothing against them (i think mancs add interesting dynamics to fights with their spread shot) so i'm trying to use them more and i've learned to make bigger teleport closets so i can utilise some of the more 'plus sized' individuals.

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I'm not exactly the most experienced mapper, but I will say that these next monsters need some serious ass whooping to make them viable members of hell society:

Lost souls a.k.a absolute waste of my patience. These guys need some serious thinking about their health. I would say changing 100>60/50 hp would make them from annoying little bastards to actually some viable "stopping"/disctracting enemies.

Same goes to Baron of Hell. Whoever puts them in their map without anyone accompanying them is the most evil human being on this earth, shame on you. They need attack tweaking to make them much more threatening, instead of just being reincarnation of brick wall with legs. Perhaps different pattern or just more projectiles. 

Arachnotons are great enemies, but they take too much space. Seriously, what's with their absolutely ginormous hitboxes?

Other than that, I don't have any gripe against other monsters, really. In the end it all comes down to the fact as how creator utilizes them, you can absolutely ruin great monsters by slapping them on your map like you are packing can of sardines, and opposite to that you can make some really garbage monsters into some unique encounters by using environment to your advantage and different combinations of other monsters. 

 

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I think I'm following the crowd with this one - I rarely / never use Spider Mastermind, Baron of Hell, Lost Soul, etc.

In the boom megawad I'm working on I think the SMM and Baron will be changed to something new, and the lost soul will probably have it's health lowered to make it more 'popcorn enemy' styled.

As for enemies I should use LESS, I find the Revenant is #1 in this slot. I use them whenever anything it supposed to be remotely challenging - they're very balanced for fun combat; they move reasonably quick so they apply hard pressure, they tank at least 1 rocket or SSG blast, they're thin so they can traverse a lot of tight places, they have a homing rocket which is generally very interesting, and they can do harsh damage in a short amount of time making them a genuine threat every time you see one.

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Lost Souls are awesome :D 

I barely use Hell Knight's (and when I do they suck) and Barons (most boring monster of the game)

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My maps don't have much zombie type of enemies besides chaingunners, because they feel like free meat for shotgun or chaingun and it's hard to balance them. 

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I use high-tier monsters a lot less. Very few Cybies, Spiders and Archies (I consider them boss monsters). Out of the regular enemies, PE is used less but I use a bunch of lost souls. I neglect the zombieman the most. Out of the 3 boss monsters, Archies see the most use. I think I use way too much and should tone it down a few notches.

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