[GEC] Master Edition PSX Doom for the PlayStation. Beta 4 Released [11/16/2022]

[Dark Pulse]

5 minutes ago, Job said:

The developers would alter level geometry and layout to compromise between speed and faithfulness. My opinions that this is best to keep in mind, with a bias toward speed. 

I figured as much. Still, an ideal framerate to try to dip under as little as possible would definitely help some.

[KVELLER]

9 hours ago, Dark Pulse said:

I figured as much. Still, an ideal framerate to try to dip under as little as possible would definitely help some.

 

I personally think that 20+ fps should be the target, and 15 fps the bare mininum. Anything lower is just pretty much unplayable, more so in a game like Doom.

[RonLivingston]

As you can see I tested out dis from ultimate doom, I wanted to see what I know about the spider mastermind. because the spider mastermind is the only overlooked monster in the PS1 version, only the spider demon is featured in map54; redemption denied. the only thing is we can only have a map with very less sidedefs, linedefs, sectors, and vertices, and we cant have more then 2 monster types, so after the cyberdemon, the spider mastermind is considered as the final boss

[Dark Pulse]

6 hours ago, RonLivingston said:

As you can see I tested out dis from ultimate doom, I wanted to see what I know about the spider mastermind. because the spider mastermind is the only overlooked monster in the PS1 version, only the spider demon is featured in map54; redemption denied. the only thing is we can only have a map with very less sidedefs, linedefs, sectors, and vertices, and we cant have more then 2 monster types, so after the cyberdemon, the spider mastermind is considered as the final boss

That's strange. My version of Dis (still WIP) has more than two monster types, including the Spider Mastermind. (Currently, it has four types of monsters on it.)

 

Not sure why you think we can only have two monster types. It's just the memory limits and the Spider Mastermind/Cyberdemon taking up a lot of space, but there's no "hard" limits or anything like that past the memory ones, and that applies regardless of map.

[riderr3]

43 minutes ago, Dark Pulse said:

That's strange. My version of Dis (still WIP) has more than two monster types, including the Spider Mastermind. (Currently, it has four types of monsters on it.)

 

Not sure why you think we can only have two monster types. It's just the memory limits and the Spider Mastermind/Cyberdemon taking up a lot of space, but there's no "hard" limits or anything like that past the memory ones, and that applies regardless of map.

I've also tested Dis some time ago and it can hold SMM, barons, and mancubi.
For compensating monster types you even can add mancubi with corresponded death trigger to lower the floor (like they added them on PSX Tower of Babel). Or just leave cacos here.

Lost Levels version contains only SMM and Barons, but there are used dead triggers for each.

As for texture breaking/warping effect on the floor, you can do nothing without that, except making arena smaller, which is unacceptable for such map and will break progression. Can be leaved like that, even if this sometimes looked ugly under certain view points. Moreover, PSX Doom official MAP54 also have this issue with warping floors.

Also for this map can be used more decorative versions of textures because of free space available.

Edited October 16, 2018 by riderr3

[Dark Pulse]

3 hours ago, riderr3 said:

I've also tested Dis some time ago and it can hold SMM, barons, and mancubi.
For compensating monster types you even can add mancubi with corresponded death trigger to lower the floor (like they added them on PSX Tower of Babel). Or just leave cacos here.

Lost Levels version contains only SMM and Barons, but there are used dead triggers for each.

As for texture breaking/warping effect on the floor, you can do nothing without that, except making arena smaller, which is unacceptable for such map and will break progression. Can be leaved like that, even if this sometimes looked ugly under certain view points. Moreover, PSX Doom official MAP54 also have this issue with warping floors.

Also for this map can be used more decorative versions of textures because of free space available.

Yeah, the texture breaking, not much can be done about that. It's a hardware limitation of such a large floor I'm guessing. I tried subdividing it into extra sectors to see if that'd make a difference and it didn't, so at this point, it's just a bug that has to be accepted.

 

As for monster types, I was doing something a bit different, and potentially more interesting. I'm also keeping in mind that it's no longer the final map in even Doom, since there's also some Thy Flesh Consumed stuff in PS1 Doom.

 

I know one thing for sure though - I'm moving the Spider Mastermind out of the one quadrant. That basically gimped it, because a player who comes in loaded can just brain it with a few BFG shots and it will barely put a scratch on you, because it'll really only see you when you step out, giving you a bit of a safe zone. I'm taking that away.

Edited October 16, 2018 by Dark Pulse

[Sevmura]

1. There's an older version of Dis for PSX Doom TC Lost Levels, and it has a huge amount of Barons of Hell. I mean, more is better right? The problem is that monster infighting means that the SPM is completely swamped and dies before you even can touch it.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9DsAsca5_8

 

2. After this project is done, would there be any interest to incorporate Doom64 maps?

 

3. OC can achieve stable 30fps. Using cheat codes, 60fps could potentially be achieved. Those kinds of codes are common for PS2 games, but not for PSX games. I've seen Silent Hill running at 60fps, so Doom PSX should be possible too. We just need to find what the Doom 60fps cheat code is.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cki0kCGD36Q

Edited October 18, 2018 by Sevmura

[Uroboros87]

Speaking of cheats, I remember a while back messing with the main menu of psx doom in cheat engine. I set the difficulty to levels beyond what is normally allowed and during the game, the monsters had the same behavior that they would have on nightmare difficulty minus the respawn. I think that the nightmare difficulty was originally going to be used in psx doom but, for whatever reason, they didn't use it. Can anyone confirm this? If so, is there anyway to enable it for the master edition?

[Dark Pulse]

6 hours ago, Sevmura said:

1. There's an older version of Dis for PSX Doom TC Lost Levels, and it has a huge amount of Barons of Hell. I mean, more is better right? The problem is that monster infighting means that the SPM is completely swamped and dies before you even can touch it.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9DsAsca5_8

 

2. After this project is done, would there be any interest to incorporate Doom64 maps?

 

3. OC can achieve stable 30fps. Using cheat codes, 60fps could potentially be achieved. Those kinds of codes are common for PS2 games, but not for PSX games. I've seen Silent Hill running at 60fps, so Doom PSX should be possible too. We just need to find what the Doom 60fps cheat code is.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cki0kCGD36Q

1) I'd doubt that Doom 64 could be done with PS1 Doom, at least, not if you want accuracy in all but map layout. Not only would we need entirely new textures and sprites, Doom 64 had the benefit of far more RAM than the PS1 does - 4 MB compared to 1 MB. Making that all fit would be a bit of a nightmare. PS1 Doom also doesn't have the Macros that Doom 64 does, nor the more advanced lighting (Doom 64 has five different types: Floor, Ceiling, Things, Upper Wall, Lower Wall). You could make an approximation, certainly, but the biggest issue would be dealing with the Macros and the fact that it'd look more like that version of Doom 64 done in Doom II, where the layout is more or less the same but that's about it.

 

2) Overclocking via emulation doesn't count in terms of framerate. We all know we can do that. We're talking about improving performance on stock, normal-clocked hardware/emulators. Figuring out how to make a 60 FPS patch would probably require some pretty extensive rewriting of the PS1 engine, especially if it throws off other aspects of the playsim. I mean, even PC Doom was capped to 35 FPS for most of its key aspects.

[DynamiteKaitorn]

4MB instead of 1MB huh? Kinda curious how accurate you could make some of the larger maps in D64 engine...

[Dark Pulse]

58 minutes ago, DynamiteKaitorn said:

4MB instead of 1MB huh? Kinda curious how accurate you could make some of the larger maps in D64 engine...

Yeah, stock N64 has 4 MB of RAM. If you use the RAM Expansion Pak, you can actually go up to 8 MB, but this wasn't out when Doom 64 came out (it came out over a year and a half later). Most games used that to increase resolution or details. In theory if someone hacked Doom 64 to work with it, most likely that'd just allow for higher-rez graphics, because the only other thing it could even be useful for is to either increase the framerate, or to have more textures or sprites basically, since Doom is fundamentally not a true 3D engine and so wouldn't really benefit from most of the other ways extra RAM could be put to use.

 

Maps would probably not be the problem for the most part, but of course, remember that textures, sprites, sounds, maps, etc. all have to fit within that memory limit, just like on PS1 Doom, and this is compounded by the N64 being one of the first consoles to have a unified memory architecture, so everything the system needs must fit within that limit (meaning unlike the PS1 for example, sound data must also fit in that memory). Also, there was only 4KB of on-chip texture memory for most of the smaller carts, and Doom would definitely count as one of those as it's an 8 MB cartridge. The bigger carts (32+ MB) tended to have far better textures.

 

And even with the extra 3 MB of RAM in the stock console, we all know there were no Archies, Revenants, or Heavy Weapon Dudes in Doom 64, either.

 

What'd be a lot more interesting and feasible to me, would be porting the PS1 and original Doom maps into Doom 64, and giving them a Doom 64-style makeover. Since there's no macro stuff to worry about, the main things that would be needed would be retexturing and, depending upon if the game is hacked to have those monsters "resurrected," some monster replacement as necessary, and from there whether authors would be allowed to use Macros to spice up the original maps even further would be the sorts of stuff that'd be up to the project leads. I'm pretty sure that with the RAM Expansion Pak, we'd have enough memory to include all the missing monsters and maybe even some new textures, but the game would have to detect if a pak is present and use an alternate set of maps where it just assumes the normal textures and assets if the hardware/emulator doesn't have the extra 4 MB of memory.

 

I mean, sure, one could always use Doom 64 EX to do the same thing too, but then again, part of the fun would be being able to play it on an original console. Why else are any of the mappers who signed up to work on this willingly suffering when we can already do basically similar stuff (or better) via GZDoom, after all? :P

Edited October 18, 2018 by Dark Pulse

[riderr3]

On 10/18/2018 at 6:39 AM, Sevmura said:

 

2. After this project is done, would there be any interest to incorporate Doom64 maps?

 

 

By the way GEC is actually working to implement accurate Doom64 on GZDoom engine.

I wonder which editor did they use with Doom64 maps.
 

 

On 10/18/2018 at 12:39 PM, Dark Pulse said:

2) Overclocking via emulation doesn't count in terms of framerate. We all know we can do that. We're talking about improving performance on stock, normal-clocked hardware/emulators. Figuring out how to make a 60 FPS patch would probably require some pretty extensive rewriting of the PS1 engine, especially if it throws off other aspects of the playsim. I mean, even PC Doom was capped to 35 FPS for most of its key aspects.

That's right for overclocking, but the cheat engine cheats can be applied also on real console with swap method and cheat CD like gameshark or action pro.



Also I still not mentioned the fact is the VRAM viewer is actually presented in-game! I suppose with this method PSX Doom devs converting official maps. But they hide this feature before game was released.
VRAM cheat for PSX Doom (cd release v1.1) and PSX Final Doom respectively: 800A88AC 0010 and 800AB3CC 0010
For the Master Edition Beta (Doom 1/2 part) the values shifted a little to 800A868C 0010. That means GEC did some changes to PSX Doom engine while Final Doom stays the same.
After inputting cheat press start in-game and you can see VRAM pages, left and right arrows to turn the pages (like level warp cheat). Even current sprites is visible and their cache changed dynamically. Example for PSX Doom Level 16 Hell Keep:






The last one shows distorted menu.

The VRAM cheat is mentioned in databases, but still marked as "unknown". This means that apart from me, no one has yet thought to press the start and see what this cheat does.
Also I've found proper berserk cheat which is not mentioned in databases
For Doom and Final: 800A8820 0001 and 800AB340 0001. Can change last 3 digits to 400 to remove red screen but keep berserk.

With further digging of nearby cheats, I broke the engine a little, for example, the view from the player’s eyes looked as if he was sitting crouched, or his Z-coordinates were changed at all.

Edited October 27, 2018 by riderr3

[Dark Pulse]

52 minutes ago, riderr3 said:

By the way GEC is actually working to implement accurate Doom64 on GZDoom engine.

I wonder which editor did they use with Doom64 maps.

This would be great. I was taking that Doom 64: Retribution project in GZDoom and coloring the maps "properly," but GZDoom still fails to have proper support in a few areas, namely, light color switch macros (more accurately, GZDoom's ACS can't properly set all Doom 64-style lighting types via ACS, only the static/monolithic sector color like PS1 Doom would have), some linedef flags aren't implemented (meaning the Title Map will never look right since it uses a flag to only stretch the colors across the visible part of a linedef as opposed to a whole linedef, and that as soon as MAP02 you run into areas where certain parts of certain walls are tagged to "flip" the upper/lower wall colors), etc. It all caused me to stop bothering with doing that work.

 

But I'd love for full Doom 64 support in GZDoom. Its current "mostly there" implementation irks me badly. It just needs those last few things, really, and then there's no reason we couldn't consider Doom 64 supported as an IWAD.

 

As for what editor? Presumably some fork of Doom Builder 2/GZDoom Builder, just like for this project.

Edited October 18, 2018 by Dark Pulse

[Gerardo194]

12 hours ago, Sevmura said:

After this project is done, would there be any interest to incorporate Doom64 maps?

I've thought about it, including an extra episode called "extermination merciless" but @Dark Pulse has pointed out the differences between PSXDoom and Doom 64, but who knows, maybe this could be Doom 64 PSX edition...

 

@Uroboros87 yes, I've known about that Nightmare behavior in PSXDoom and it is in the code but only @Erick194 can confirm if it can be activated. If there is a way to reactivate it, I'm sure I will not survive this Master Edition in Nightmare mode.

 

2 hours ago, riderr3 said:

Also I've found proper berserk cheat which is not mentioned in databases
For Doom and Final: 800A8820 0001 and 800AB340 0001

 

Interesting! I wonder if it have something to do with the other/unused cheat codes inside the game itself.

 

The other GZDoom Master Edition project has its own editors :)

[Uroboros87]

Yeah, playing nightmare difficulty on the ps1 was no joke. I got slaughtered pretty easily haha. It would definitely be fun for multiplayer though.

[Erick194]

On 10/18/2018 at 7:59 AM, riderr3 said:

Also I still not mentioned the fact is the VRAM viewer is actually presented in-game! I suppose with this method PSX Doom devs converting official maps. But they hide this feature before game was released.

Really interesting what @riderr3 discovered, that verifies the sequence of buttons for a code not used in psxdoom, here an image of all the codes available in psxdoom.

Edited October 19, 2018 by Erick194 : Correction in the God mode code

[DynamiteKaitorn]

Out of all of the codes, why can't I activate any other cheat BESIDES the full weapons and ammo cheat? I've typed in the other cheats multiple times but none do anything (ones with a purpose that is)

[Dark Pulse]

39 minutes ago, DynamiteKaitorn said:

Out of all of the codes, why can't I activate any other cheat BESIDES the full weapons and ammo cheat? I've typed in the other cheats multiple times but none do anything (ones with a purpose that is)

Do it at a steady pace. If you do it too quickly or too slowly, they won't work. I know I've done God Mode plenty of times.

 

That said, if it still won't work, make sure your controller is functioning correctly.

[DynamiteKaitorn]

Being that I use my keyboard and have typed the cheats in lightning fast AND super slow (and even regular speed) that doesn't seem to be the issue. Not to mention I'm using a different keyboard from when I started helping with this project and that old one also failed to input anything.

[Gerardo194]

Hmmm, if you typed a wrong button sequence, you must resume your game and press start again. Repeat this process if you insert a wrong button/key

[Erick194]

5 hours ago, DynamiteKaitorn said:

Being that I use my keyboard and have typed the cheats in lightning fast AND super slow (and even regular speed) that doesn't seem to be the issue. Not to mention I'm using a different keyboard from when I started helping with this project and that old one also failed to input anything.

Remember that you have to press pause and then insert the code, if you fail, you will have to resume the game and try again.

 

By the way the unused code, "Vram viewer", does not work since it was removed from the code, but its function if it exists, I will try to reactivate it.

[RonLivingston]

Its a pitty that I had never checked out that mega rapid fire cheat from gameshark for doom on the actual playstation one, I would always know what it would feel like to use mega rapid fire

[DynamiteKaitorn]

12 hours ago, Gerardo194 said:

Hmmm, if you typed a wrong button sequence, you must resume your game and press start again. Repeat this process if you insert a wrong button/key

 

I know. Still duds.

[riderr3]

If someone want to use 3D effect on the floor rather than ceiling, you can use same way but also with applied blank flat and blank texture.





It's still have limitation - there is a void under 3D sector. Anyways it can be used for decorative purposes somewhere.

 

2 hours ago, DynamiteKaitorn said:

 

I know. Still duds. 

I suppose you are using ePSXe. Try different input plugin (Lilypad for ePSXe) and play with their options.

 

Edited October 20, 2018 by riderr3

[DynamiteKaitorn]

X TRI L1 V ^R2 >> is full ammo? Weird since I have to type the same cod but << not >> at the end.

icantread.png

 

EDIT: So after fiddling about, thewarp levels cheat also works for me but god mode and both reveal maps (and X-ray) still are duds. At least testing BETA 2 wont be so painful :D

Edited October 20, 2018 by DynamiteKaitorn

[Dark Pulse]

1 hour ago, DynamiteKaitorn said:

X TRI L1 V ^R2 >> is full ammo? Weird since I have to type the same cod but << not >> at the end.

icantread.png

 

EDIT: So after fiddling about, thewarp levels cheat also works for me but god mode and both reveal maps (and X-ray) still are duds. At least testing BETA 2 wont be so painful :D

Due to the graphic, you might be mixing up all the directions. Make sure you're not doing that.

 

Reveal Maps is Triangle, Triangle, L2, R2, L2, R2, R1, Square (Level)/Circle (Things).

God Mode is Down, L2, Square, R1, Right, L1, Left, Circle.

X-Ray is L1, R2, L2, R1, Right, Tri, X, Right.

 

@Erick194 You might want to alter your graphic so as to make which D-Pad directions you press are clearer. I know that's how the PS1's D-Pad looks, but it definitely can be confusing due to them looking like arrows that point in the entire opposite direction of the actual direction to be pressed.

 

Maybe consider showing the whole D-Pad, but highlight which button to press.

Edited October 20, 2018 by Dark Pulse

[Job]

I hate to be "that guy," but I wanted to pop in and ask how the second Beta compilation is going. *wink*

[Dark Pulse]

@Erick194 Is there a way to use the Find_Side batchfiles without totally screwing up the skyboxes? This bug doesn't seem to happen when building using the normal build batchfiles.

 

Perhaps code an exception that if it detects an F_SKY texture as a flat for a given sector's sidedefs, it doesn't compress the sidedef? Or am I missing something here?

 

 

EDIT: Nevermind, this seems to be a BeetlePSX HW bug. It looks fine in Xebra.

Edited October 20, 2018 by Dark Pulse : Not an actual bug it turns out, disregard.

[Erick194]

I have modified the image one more time.

 

45 minutes ago, Dark Pulse said:

@Erick194 Is there a way to use the Find_Side batchfiles without totally screwing up the skyboxes? This bug doesn't seem to happen when building using the normal build batchfiles.

 

Perhaps code an exception that if it detects an F_SKY texture as a flat for a given sector's sidedefs, it doesn't compress the sidedef? Or am I missing something here?

What a weird mistake, the find side tool, only works with the sidedefs, not with the textures of the flats.

 

1 hour ago, Job said:

I hate to be "that guy," but I wanted to pop in and ask how the second Beta compilation is going. *wink*

Sorry, it's still going to take a little more time, since the hacking of the exes is quite complicated.

 

By the way, I managed to restore the Vram viewer code.

[Dark Pulse]

5 minutes ago, Erick194 said:

What a weird mistake, the find side tool, only works with the sidedefs, not with the textures of the flats.

I just figured out it's an emulator issue with the hardware renderer. Xebra displays the skies fine, as does BeetlePSX Software renderer.