[GEC] Master Edition PSX Doom for the PlayStation. Beta 4 Released [11/16/2022]

[Devalaous]

I appreciate the irony of Trapped on Titan literally having you trapped on Titan.

[Nikoka]

2 hours ago, Muusi said:

Then why download the beta? Why not wait for the full release?

I'm in my office but can respond 'on the fly' from my smartphone.

If you had read the previous posts, you would have the answer.
1) I was advised, by team members, to play it as is;
2) The project is on hold for now (going back to 2019) and it is unknown if and when it will be continued;
3) I was also driven by curiosity and desire.

[Dark Pulse]

1 hour ago, Nikoka said:

1) I was advised, by team members, to play it as is;
2) The project is on hold for now (going back to 2019) and it is unknown if and when it will be continued;
3) I was also driven by curiosity and desire.

1) Yes, just keep in mind it's a beta and there's bugs. Just report them if you find them so we can look into them. Most maps SHOULD be pretty good and pretty final, though. (I think your experience in Titan Manor is actually not knowing how to clear the map, rather than an actual bug, since Titan Manor is a notoriously puzzle-like level, but I will look into it once you tell me how you're getting trapped.)

2) It will be continued. "When" is a genuine question, but GEC has no intention of not finishing the project.

[Nikoka]

1 hour ago, Dark Pulse said:

I think your experience in Titan Manor is actually not knowing how to clear the map, rather than an actual bug

Again...Do you think I don't know the difference between not being able to solve a puzzle, and being stuck in a situation with no way out?
You don't seem to think much of me. But I'll get over it. No problem.

After I'm done shopping, I'm going to try to make a video and attach it here below (if smaller than 25mb), if that's okay with you.

[Dark Pulse]

1 hour ago, Nikoka said:

Again...Do you think I don't know the difference between not being able to solve a puzzle, and being stuck in a situation with no way out?
You don't seem to think much of me. But I'll get over it. No problem.

After I'm done shopping, I'm going to try to make a video and attach it here below (if smaller than 25mb), if that's okay with you.

I have no idea what your level of Doom experience is - but your experiences are definitely more with source ports while PSX Doom is much closer to the original DOS game. But I know the original map is beatable, and having worked on conversions for this project, I also know that it's not very likely that the map was made unwinnable. riderr3 usually does pretty solid mapping work.

 

Also, chill the heck out, man. That's twice now, I'm not trying to attack you here. I don't even know you.

 

But yes, please do make and attach a video. You can throw it up on something like Streamable as a temporary video host. It is, after all, entirely possible the map is accidentally bugged in the conversion process, in which case, we'd definitely want to get that fixed for the next beta.

Edited June 26, 2021 by Dark Pulse

[Nikoka]

I've zipped it below.
And sorry for my (seemingly) perhaps aggressive language. A cultural issue...🤣

As you can see I entered through the back of a blue door, which shouldn't have opened since I didn't have its key.
In that room there is a yellow door and 2 blue doors, but I don't have any keys, and the switch makes an arrow appear on the ceiling, toward the yellow door, and that's it.

DoomML1.7z

Edited June 26, 2021 by Nikoka

[Dark Pulse]

Interesting. This is in the original map's design, as well - all the doors are indeed keyed up.

 

However, it does provide a way out via the windows - since the platform the blue key is on (which resembles more of a stepped pyramid) can be stepped on, from there you can easily straferun off towards one of the windows and your momentum will carry you (along with a slight raised lip) to give you enough step height to climb up onto the window ledge, letting you exit the room and go back to the same area where you'd land if you fell while traversing the walkway (immediately after you get off the arrow-pointed lift).

 

riderr3 did alter this room. However:

1. This problem can be bypassed entirely by actually collecting the yellow key. Once you drop down on the ground just past it, as you approach the dropoff for the floor (where the Shotgun guy is), an alcove opens up behind you, just like in the original map. Walk in, hit the switch, and the crate the yellow key is on lowers; from there you can grab it and obviously with that be able to open at least one of the doors...
2. ...but what if you didn't notice the alcove opening and walked straight into the room, like in your video? Then you'd think you're trapped, as you said. However, riderr3 was smart enough to account for this even though he reworked the room - simply face one of the windows, hold down your run button, and run straight ahead to it. Just like on the original map, your momentum will actually let you step up onto the window ledge, and send you sailing out the window, since he effectively made the "lip" height from the original map the entire platform's height here. From there, you've made your escape from the room. The window closest to the switch will get you back towards the lift, and you'd definitely notice the opened alcove to get the yellow key the next time you went through the crate room; if you go through the other window instead (on the wall with the cubbyhole with all the bullet ammo) it leads to a different puzzle that is also escapable, but will challenge your brain in a different way, and that will eventually lead back to the foyer with one of its exits.

So in short - yes, the room is actually escapable, and there's nothing wrong with the map.

Edited June 26, 2021 by Dark Pulse

[Impboy4]

EDIT: I like Pizza

Edited June 26, 2021 by Impboy4

[Dark Pulse]

EDIT: I do too! I have some still left for dinner tonight.

 

Mmmm, pizza.
 

[Nikoka]

23 minutes ago, Dark Pulse said:

Mmmm, pizza.

What do you mean by this expression? Is it perhaps a veiled mockery? Is it thanks for taking the trouble to help you? How should I react to that? Now, am I not right to be offended? I hope I have misunderstood...

[Dark Pulse]

1 minute ago, Nikoka said:

What do you mean by this expression? Is it perhaps a veiled mockery? Is it thanks for taking the trouble to help you? How should I react to that? Now, am I not right to be offended? I hope I have misunderstood...

You have, it's me and him having a joke between each other. Nothing you need to worry about.

 

Pizza is delicious though. :P

[Nikoka]

3 minutes ago, Dark Pulse said:

You have, it's me and him having a joke between each other. Nothing you need to worry about.

I hope that is the case...and not a reference to me and my home country.☹️

[Dark Pulse]

5 minutes ago, Nikoka said:

I hope that is the case...and not a reference to me and my home country.☹️

Pizza is a worldwide food :)

 

But I had no idea you were Italian (forum doesn't exactly show where everyone is from, after all), so apologies if you thought it was a jab at you. Sincerely wasn't.

[Nikoka]

27 minutes ago, Dark Pulse said:

apologies if you thought it was a jab at you. Sincerely wasn't.

If it really wasn't a tease of some sort, there's no need to apologize.
Was this perhaps a reference to the microwave grill, clearly visible in the reflection, used to support the smartphone and shoot the video? We Italians know the 'arte di arrangiarsi' (art of getting by) with what we have at home....🤣

[Dark Pulse]

17 minutes ago, Nikoka said:

If it really wasn't a tease of some sort, there's no need to apologize.
Was this perhaps a reference to the microwave grill, clearly visible in the reflection, used to support the smartphone and shoot the video? We Italians know the 'arte di arrangiarsi' (art of getting by) with what we have at home....🤣

To be totally honest: I got the map maker wrong, he corrected me while I was in the process of fixing my post by posting the right one, I joked he should change the post to "I like cheese," he decided on pizza instead, and hey, I like pizza too, so I went with it. :P

 

I didn't even notice the reflection until you mentioned it. I was busy watching how you were playing, to see what you were (or weren't) doing. And as it turned out, yeah, you pretty much just didn't know you could run through the windows off the raised central part of the room.

[Nikoka]

17 hours ago, Dark Pulse said:

your experiences are definitely more with source ports while PSX Doom is much closer to the original DOS game

On this point you are dead wrong. 

I just have a short memory for certain details.

 

I still remember when, coming back from school, I bought my usual computer and videogames magazine, but this time with a CD attached, containing, among other things, the shareware version of Doom: and immediately it seemed something unique and incredible, never seen before (apart from Wolfstein3d maybe... ).

 

I remember how I had to struggle to make it work properly on my 286 (or more likely a 386, as an expert suggests to me) because it often crashed with the infamous 'z-malloc error'.
And then, to free up RAM, I had to create a self-parting boot floppy disk, with the necessary DOS files; and then lowering the quality of the sound effects on setting my Soundblaster pro, and finally eliminating the music altogether (finding no other solution).

It was so satisfying when everything finally worked properly, although with some slowdowns here and there...what good memories...what priceless moments...we were living the birth of the FPS genre...sorry...I have to compose myself...😢

Edited June 27, 2021 by Nikoka

[riderr3]

14 hours ago, Nikoka said:

You missed the point. I'm in that room and I can't get out. How is that possible? I couldn't find any secret passages! It has nothing to do with the fact that the next map is unpassable.

Jim Flynn's maps is all about puzzles and traps so they are one of my favorites...

Watch at 8:19

I posted this video two years ago.

 

P.S. It is strange that you missed the original map for years. Talking about Doom back in the days, and at the same time do not know the creations of Jimm Flynn.

Edited June 26, 2021 by riderr3

[Dark Pulse]

1 hour ago, Nikoka said:

I remember how I had to struggle to make it work properly on my 286, because it often crashed with the infamous 'z-malloc error'.
And then, to free up RAM, I had to create a self-parting boot floppy disk, with the necessary DOS files; and then lowering the quality of the sound effects on setting my Soundblaster pro, and finally eliminating the music altogether (finding no other solution).

It was so satisfying when everything finally worked properly, although with some slowdowns here and there...what good memories...what priceless moments...we were living the birth of the FPS genre...sorry...I have to compose myself...😢

Doom on a 286... that's actually not possible. I think you must've had a 386SX or something.

 

The reason I say that is because Doom's extender (DOS/4GW) is well-known to make use of the 386's protected mode, which literally did not exist on a 286. (More accurately, a prototypical version of it did exist, but it was never widely used or adopted due to some severe limitations, and only a few non-DOS OSes made use of it. The fact that you couldn't switch back to Real Mode from Protected Mode without resetting the CPU essentially crippled DOS. The 386 Protected Mode allowed that.)

 

But otherwise, yeah, again, I don't know how much experience you have with Doom's original engine versus a source port, and the way you'd worded things made it seem like you weren't so familiar with how the original engine worked.

[Nikoka]

2 hours ago, Dark Pulse said:

Doom on a 286... that's actually not possible. I think you must've had a 386SX or something.

One or the other, since I've had both. But I was convinced it was the first one. 

Of course you went looking for the nitpick (a technical fact), neglecting I suppose everything else (the human/emotional side, the only one that matters for me)..🤔

Edited June 26, 2021 by Nikoka

[Dark Pulse]

Yeah, I got the emotion part. For me the first version I had was the SNES version, so I was running it on something even worse. Picture my shock when I expect to go to E2M2 on the PC version and find a totally different map there! And then hate E2M3 (the map I was expecting) reusing the Intermission music as a result! And then finding the exit to the secret level isn't there at all! :P

 

But a friendly correction isn't a bad thing. Look at it this way - a little knowledge goes a long way. You don't really need to know the guts and details of Doom technical minutiae unless you really wanna, though.

[intacowetrust]

8 hours ago, Dark Pulse said:

Doom on a 286... that's actually not possible. I think you must've had a 386SX or something.

 

The reason I say that is because Doom's extender (DOS/4GW) is well-known to make use of the 386's protected mode, which literally did not exist on a 286. 

Also worth mentioning that the 286 is a 16-bit CPU but Doom makes heavy use of 32-bit instructions which were only available on the (32-bit) 386 and later. The 286 didn’t have the instruction set or necessary ALU bit width to be able to execute Doom natively.

[Nikoka]

10 hours ago, Dark Pulse said:

Doom on a 286... that's actually not possible.

Now that I thought about it, since I only had CGA/EGA graphics cards installed in that PC, I couldn't use this game; moreover it only had 2 floppy disk slots without CD-ROM. My inattention. Too bad...😂
In that computer instead I played Wolfstein3d, that I had on floppy; and on this I don't believe to remember badly.🤔

 

But maybe someone will have to object about this too...🤣

[Dark Pulse]

8 hours ago, Nikoka said:

Now that I thought about it, since I only had CGA/EGA graphics cards installed in that PC, I couldn't use this game; moreover it only had 2 floppy disk slots without CD-ROM. My inattention. Too bad...😂
In that computer instead I played Wolfstein3d, that I had on floppy; and on this I don't believe to remember badly.🤔

 

But maybe someone will have to object about this too...🤣

Yeah, a 286 will definitely run Wolf. It didn't really need anything fancy.

 

 

[Nikoka]

6 hours ago, Dark Pulse said:

Yeah, a 286 will definitely run Wolf. It didn't really need anything fancy

I see. At least in this case my memory didn't fail me.

 

Thanks for your interest and this video, and sorry for the annoyance I cause you with my silly talk...🤗

Edited June 27, 2021 by Nikoka

[Terraformer9x]

This was probably asked before but is there plans to port this project, once complete, to DZDoom?

[Dark Pulse]

9 hours ago, Terraformer9x said:

This was probably asked before but is there plans to port this project, once complete, to DZDoom?

I'm not sure. I think the maps would need conversion back (unless support for the PSX/Final PSX/Doom 64 map formats got added in by Erick) since DZDoom is basically a forked older GZDoom build; however, PsyDoom definitely will have support for running them (you can actually do it right now, it's just slightly complicated, but nothing too bad if you don't mind a little commandline options and such).

 

The reason "official" support is being held off is that the CD for the next version of the GEC Master Edition will have CD layout changes, and that will basically mean if we go by Beta 3's offsets and such, Beta 4 will immediately break support.

[Terraformer9x]

2 hours ago, Dark Pulse said:

I'm not sure. I think the maps would need conversion back (unless support for the PSX/Final PSX/Doom 64 map formats got added in by Erick) since DZDoom is basically a forked older GZDoom build; however, PsyDoom definitely will have support for running them (you can actually do it right now, it's just slightly complicated, but nothing too bad if you don't mind a little commandline options and such).

 

The reason "official" support is being held off is that the CD for the next version of the GEC Master Edition will have CD layout changes, and that will basically mean if we go by Beta 3's offsets and such, Beta 4 will immediately break support.

 

Ah I see. So is the end goal basically gonna be to have a PSXDoom romhack with fully complete Doom campaigns with the missing entities and levels readded and such, because that will be absolute kickass to playthrough.

[Impboy4]

1 hour ago, Terraformer9x said:

 

Ah I see. So is the end goal basically gonna be to have a PSXDoom romhack with fully complete Doom campaigns with the missing entities and levels readded and such, because that will be absolute kickass to playthrough.

No, GEC is not going to incorporate the existing commercial PSX Doom/Final Doom maps with this project. You're getting the cut content only.

[Lollie]

28 minutes ago, Impboy4 said:

No, GEC is not going to incorporate the existing commercial PSX Doom/Final Doom maps with this project. You're getting the cut content only.

Doesn't matter how many times I see this response, it doesn't make sense. "Master Edition" implies it'd have everything, restoring cut content alongside the original. And it'd be a real shame to not allow the original content to take advantage of the improvements and fixes made to the engine.

[Terraformer9x]

1 hour ago, Impboy4 said:

No, GEC is not going to incorporate the existing commercial PSX Doom/Final Doom maps with this project. You're getting the cut content only.

 

I second what @Lollie said.

 

That is inexcusably lame if that's the case. I'd even go as far as to argue what's even the point of this project then if there isn't plans to reincorporate them with the commercial maps.