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Erick194

[GEC] Master Edition PSX Doom for the PlayStation. 1/10/2019 (Beta 3 Release Now!, Are You Ready For More Action?)

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Dark Pulse said:

I do think that ultimately, a few versions of the project should be produced.

  • A version that intermixes our new levels with the originals. In other words, restoring the proper order of progression for the original games; turning the Master Levels into one single episode; SIGIL, NRFTL, and the Master Levels creators' other creations as their own little miniature episodes; whatever original level set we wind up creating as its own episode; and then throw in the miscellaneous stuff in some sort of "Bonus Maps" episode. This way, consistency is kept, level sequence is exactly like the originals, and so on.
  • Same as above but ONLY the new levels. For those who don't want to play all the old stuff, and just want the new stuff we created for the project. It should still be presented in level order (where possible), since we definitely shouldn't be putting things so haphazardly.

 

Want a debate? There will be a debate.
I wanted to write this wall of text in PM. Well, let it be better for more people to read and think well.

1) Well, for example, you wanted to mix everything together. Without even considering anything.
Now look - I converted They Will Repent and in the latest version I added a secret exit to Fear. Be sure to look at it, I spent my ideas on design and a pseudo-3D effect.
And now you are essentially proposing to demolish this secret exit, EXACTLY for identity, so that the sequence of levels coincides with the PC version. These are your words - "A version that intermixes our new levels with the originals".
Is this an insult to the mapper/converter and its map? And if I don’t want someone (who?) to disfigure my map in the current project. Well then, you have to convert this map all over again yourself. For this so-called second "version" of the Master Edition. And there may be a bunch of other nuances. But it’s better to leave it for another project, which will take considerable time to create.

2) I am not against any compilation of new and old maps, I rather even for! But in the current case, this destroys the whole idea of the Master Edition, which was born from the beginning. Of course, someone can create a compilation of old and new maps, but under a different name. And the name will be fresher, and clearly state what the purpose of the project is.

I will have no questions to such "compilation" project under a different name and with a different agenda. In another project, you can even put my maps upside down (I even allow you), but not in the current Master Edition, which we know and love.

3) Let's finish this project, and then we will already offer some utopian ideas about Doom 64 that are not very relevant. There is no need to confuse, because not all maps are finished yet, but some unknown compilation is planned. Let's better discuss the current problems and bugs, of which a whole carriage. And I apologize, but your posts are constantly "running ahead of the train."

4) In a previous post, I proposed the optimal scheme for some level progression/episodes of the the current project. People supported my idea. Because I pondered these ideas yesterday for several hours, and not just threw the text into the forum.

5) There is already a little confusion because this project has almost the same name with GZDoom Master Edition. But this is not so scary, since that project is for GZDoom. Cram the old levels into the project with the current name, and for some reason create two "versions" - this will bring a lot of confusion. You can’t even imagine how much. Even simply in Google, people will for example type Master Edition, and the sequence of maps will ALREADY be confused, because you offer two "versions" of Master Edition.

6) The description of this project reads:
This project has the purpose of incorporing the "missing" levels from the PC versions: (Ultimate Doom, Doom II, Master Levels, TNT and PLutonia) according to the PSX limitations.
It is clear that NRTFL, Sigil, extra maps for Doom and ML were added later. But this does not change the essence, because these are new maps, not old ones.

You know, I would compare this, for example, with the fact that if some dictator wanted to take and rewrite the country's constitution. What people live and the stability to which they are accustomed for a long time. If he rewrites the constitution, corruption will begin. And in our case - confusion. Therefore, why do we need two versions of the constitution, because it is better to create a new country with a new constitution.

7) On the Internet, everyone who knows this project under its current name, what is its purpose. For example, I posted a bunch of playtrough videos from maps that I converted. And the description of the videos clearly states what this project means by its current name.

8) For those who are not in the know. A disk with Master Edition has a unique identifier - SLUS_666.01. That is, it's like standalone addon (hack). And not a mixing new levels with old ones. Older Doom and Final Doom games use their respective identifiers.

9) Keep in mind that at this stage (or was earlier) there is a limit on the number of levels in one episode - 64 for Doom and 32 for Final Doom. Passwords are not designed for a larger number, otherwise the whole system will break. Also in the new GEC menu, the menu of items for episodes may not be enough. (that is the initial menu where we select Doom, Master, TNT and Plutonia)

10) For those who are interested, the most optimal method is to create a compilation of old and new levels after the completion of the current project, when everything is settled, in order to avoid confusion, in different thread. But it’s better not to call it Master Edition. In order not to be confused! When the GEC has laid out the full tools, it will be possible to create any kind of projects.

11) All of the above can be taken into account, or not taken into account by the GEC. I’m not the boss here, I just warned about the consequences of using two "versions" of the Master Edition.

 

Edited by riderr3

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, riderr3 said:

3) Let's finish this project, and then we will already offer some utopian ideas about Doom 64 that are not very relevant. There is no need to confuse, because not all maps are finished yet, but some unknown compilation is planned. Let's better discuss the current problems and bugs, of which a whole carriage. And I apologize, but your posts are constantly "running ahead of the train."

I was hoping someone would say this, thank you. You're an angel.

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2 hours ago, riderr3 said:

1) Well, for example, you wanted to mix everything together. Without even considering anything.
Now look - I converted They Will Repent and in the latest version I added a secret exit to Fear. Be sure to look at it, I spent my ideas on design and a pseudo-3D effect.
And now you are essentially proposing to demolish this secret exit, EXACTLY for identity, so that the sequence of levels coincides with the PC version. These are your words - "A version that intermixes our new levels with the originals".
Is this an insult to the mapper/converter and its map? And if I don’t want someone (who?) to disfigure my map in the current project. Well then, you have to convert this map all over again yourself. For this so-called second "version" of the Master Edition. And there may be a bunch of other nuances. But it’s better to leave it for another project, which will take considerable time to create.

On the contrary - I fully respect the mapper's work; I know I'd want mine respected. But at the same time, there are a bunch of people who might be playing PSX Doom for the first time who will get terribly thrown off by Level 1 of the Doom episode being E3M1, Level 2 being E3M2, Level 3 being E3M8... etc. There's a very specific reason why I said that this is more of an optional thing, because obviously, reinserting the original levels is technically beyond the scope of this project.

 

But it's also something that's very achieveable, reasonable, and I'd argue more fun for those who never experienced the original games.

 

We who are part of this project played the PSX versions of Doom and Final Doom a lot. We don't need those extra levels, but not everyone will have played it. I think for those people it's important to give them a "full fat" experience, as if the levels had never been cut in the first place.

 

But of course, it's not the main project. It's more of a superset.

 

2 hours ago, riderr3 said:

2) I am not against any compilation of new and old maps, I rather even for! But in the current case, this destroys the whole idea of the Master Edition, which was born from the beginning. Of course, someone can create a compilation of old and new maps, but under a different name. And the name will be fresher, and clearly state what the purpose of the project is.

I will have no questions to such "compilation" project under a different name and with a different agenda. In another project, you can even put my maps upside down (I even allow you), but not in the current Master Edition, which we know and love.

Well yeah, I'd argue it should have a different name myself (especially since we already saw the confusion between Master Edition for PC vs. PSX here), and I'd agree that different versions should be named differently for precisely that reason. Maybe "Uncut Edition" or something, I dunno. It's hard to think of a name that both gets across the fact that it would "complete" the gaps in levels by reinserting the versions we worked, while at the same time, trying not to make the Master Edition sound like some sort of reduced version.

 

2 hours ago, riderr3 said:

3) Let's finish this project, and then we will already offer some utopian ideas about Doom 64 that are not very relevant. There is no need to confuse, because not all maps are finished yet, but some unknown compilation is planned. Let's better discuss the current problems and bugs, of which a whole carriage. And I apologize, but your posts are constantly "running ahead of the train."

I said myself we should finish this project before really going full-swing into a Doom 64 version, yes.

 

That said, I do also believe that at the very least, proof of concept stuff should be starting to happen somewhat soonish. Kinks need to be worked out, an updated GZDoom Builder for Doom 64 needs to get made up, etc. Erick's been at work on the map and texture compression (decompression is known and documented, (re)compression is not), and he's gotten it fairly close, but all lumps are still 1.05% bigger compared to the originals.

 

Essentially, as maps needed for this project start winding down (and they are definitely beginning to reach that point now), getting the tools prepped for Doom 64 should probably begin to ramp up. Actual releases should wait until this version is considered done, though.

 

2 hours ago, riderr3 said:

4) In a previous post, I proposed the optimal scheme for some level progression/episodes of the the current project. People supported my idea. Because I pondered these ideas yesterday for several hours, and not just threw the text into the forum.

Yes, Master Edition should have a different level balance because it has, well, different levels.

 

That said, I do still maintain that it needs to be carefully balanced as much as possible. Putting Bloodsea Keep as like the third level or so in the Master Levels set, for example, would actually be hell, because I made that level *HARD* on Ultra-Violence. (It's a bit gentler on easier difficulties.)

 

2 hours ago, riderr3 said:

5) There is already a little confusion because this project has almost the same name with GZDoom Master Edition. But this is not so scary, since that project is for GZDoom. Cram the old levels into the project with the current name, and for some reason create two "versions" - this will bring a lot of confusion. You can’t even imagine how much. Even simply in Google, people will for example type Master Edition, and the sequence of maps will ALREADY be confused, because you offer two "versions" of Master Edition.

As I said, name the superset something else. Don't name it Master Edition - Master Edition should be JUST the cut levels/other stuff, nothing more. None of the original PSX Doom/Final Doom maps should ever make an appearance in Master Edition.

 

2 hours ago, riderr3 said:

6) The description of this project reads:
This project has the purpose of incorporing the "missing" levels from the PC versions: (Ultimate Doom, Doom II, Master Levels, TNT and PLutonia) according to the PSX limitations.
It is clear that NRTFL, Sigil, extra maps for Doom and ML were added later. But this does not change the essence, because these are new maps, not old ones.

You know, I would compare this, for example, with the fact that if some dictator wanted to take and rewrite the country's constitution. What people live and the stability to which they are accustomed for a long time. If he rewrites the constitution, corruption will begin. And in our case - confusion. Therefore, why do we need two versions of the constitution, because it is better to create a new country with a new constitution.

I do think you're vastly overblowing what I wanted to try, and definitely made some assumptions.

 

I do feel there should be a version that has the original levels (and level order) preserved. I do not feel it should share the Master Edition name, even though it will, nominally, have all the levels that are included in the Master Edition.

 

Clarity is very important, and I'd not want to sow confusion by calling it anything similar to Master Edition.

 

2 hours ago, riderr3 said:

7) On the Internet, everyone who knows this project under its current name, what is its purpose. For example, I posted a bunch of playtrough videos from maps that I converted. And the description of the videos clearly states what this project means by its current name.

I do believe I've stated my stance enough on this point. The superset with original PSX levels reinserted shouldn't be called Master Edition, it should be called something else. What that something else is, I don't know, but it shouldn't be Master Edition, because Master Edition is for the "only cut maps" project, basically (and a few extras for good measure).

 

2 hours ago, riderr3 said:

8) For those who are not in the know. A disk with Master Edition has a unique identifier - SLUS_666.01. That is, it's like standalone addon (hack). And not a mixing new levels with old ones. Older Doom and Final Doom games use their respective identifiers.

Obviously we'd not use the same identifier... but at this point you're being really nitpicky about technical minutiae that 99% of people who ever play either hack will never really know. Giving it SLUS-66601 is basically an easter egg.

 

Though I'd actually argue we should use the last two digits to denote patch level (meaning the current should actually be something like SLUS-66630), but I digress.

 

2 hours ago, riderr3 said:

9) Keep in mind that at this stage (or was earlier) there is a limit on the number of levels in one episode - 64 for Doom and 32 for Final Doom. Passwords are not designed for a larger number, otherwise the whole system will break. Also in the new GEC menu, the menu of items for episodes may not be enough. (that is the initial menu where we select Doom, Master, TNT and Plutonia)

Never a problem. Ultimate Doom is 36, Doom/TNT/Plutonia is 32, Master Levels is 21, and everything else doesn't even get higher than 10 or so.

 

I liked your earlier post where rather than mouse to a specific option, we preserve space by just having one option that can flip between multiple level sets. We will need to do something like this, inevitably, once an original set of maps is produced, SIGIL/NRFTL/whatever become their own "things," etc.

 

The only other alternative would be to shrink down the Doom/Final Doom logos to fit more text in, and that's kind of lousy IMO.

 

2 hours ago, riderr3 said:

10) For those who are interested, the most optimal method is to create a compilation of old and new levels after the completion of the current project, when everything is settled, in order to avoid confusion, in different thread. But it’s better not to call it Master Edition. In order not to be confused! When the GEC has laid out the full tools, it will be possible to create any kind of projects.

Sounding like a broken drum, but I do believe you jumped the gun a bit in assuming I'd want to also call such a thing "Master Edition." You probably could've saved yourself some grief by clarifying my position a bit more, honestly.

 

Although I suppose it couldn't have hurt to mention that either, but I needed to get a little more sleep before the second half of my workday. Didn't have time.

 

2 hours ago, riderr3 said:

11) All of the above can be taken into account, or not taken into account by the GEC. I’m not the boss here, I just warned about the consequences of using two "versions" of the Master Edition.

I'd agree. Honestly, I don't think even the PC Master Edition should be named such, since it actually currently includes more than just PSX Doom (it has Doom 64 as well), and the thing has already been confused.

 

Obviously that will be easy enough to do on Doom 64, but right now there's definitely a lack of clarity, and if it were up to me, I'd rename one of the projects so as to prevent the confusion. But well, that's up to GEC in the end.

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On 10/3/2019 at 8:23 PM, DynamiteKaitorn said:

Also a few quirkynesses I found so far:

 

PHOBOS MISSION CONTROL -

TECHGONEBAD_ERROR_01.png.053eb54bc8ecf5153dd3660c2e042c8d.png

 

Not super noticeable but the sides of this elevator stretch ever so slightly when fully lowered.

 

 

 

Well I tried to fix that but nothing was working. I thinks it's just a bug in the engine. If you look at the sides of the doors and elevators in the original game, they have that same distortion when you activate them. I've fixed all of the other issues that were found so far.

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On 10/3/2019 at 10:08 PM, Dark Pulse said:

If it's the usual suspects, probably nothing a little room simplification couldn't fix.

 

@marver0PS, what say you?

 

I've fixed it. There was an undefined sector special where that teleport was. There was nothing there on the original map.

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11 hours ago, Uroboros87 said:

Well I tried to fix that but nothing was working. I thinks it's just a bug in the engine. If you look at the sides of the doors and elevators in the original game, they have that same distortion when you activate them. I've fixed all of the other issues that were found so far.

 

Lower/upper unpegged flags? In any way, this bug is really annoying sometimes. If you've tried to check those flags, try also to make ceiling height smaller in this room.

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Posted (edited)

Under a spoiler I post a bunch of screenshots with bugs found mainly in the new maps of Beta 3. Perhaps some have already been found earlier.

Spoiler

 

 

@mr-around

Vivisection

Missing texture when when this passage opened. GZDB can not find these because it's happening after the platforms is moved.

9gtY986.png

 

Baron's Banquet

Seems more like shortcut-bug. The switch can be activated when player standing downside on lava .

IiDO5OB.png

 

Impossible to get out from that pit near translucent rocky walls.

OaWZpMq.png

 

@Đeⓧiaz

Baphomet Demesne

Incredible laggy crack which affecting the framerate, it feels like no any optimizations are done. This is even limit-removing, how such things can be in the PSX Doom, it will be a pain for the players. The lot of cliffs at the rooms is also slower the framerate.

YoSwiiV.png

 

When you come closer, the fire sky will turn to darkness. I not understand the purpose of fire sky, when this map is completely underground. Even if this is done intentionally, players will think that this is a bug.

oZH7OP6.png



@Erick194

Icon of Sin
Missing texture at the top of pentagram.
FoINTWC.png

Seems that ceiling texture is glitched.
xbJIiOB.png

Missing texture at both sides in final corridors.

yXSWqNG.png

 

Trapped on Titan

This construction is absolutely broken for multiple reasons.

1) For such heights the quantity of steps are too much, and as result, the monsters is crushed when stairs raised.

2) Not possible to go on upper step, and activate desirable trigger.

3) Lot of steps causing significant slowdown.

4) Texture stretchings.

TJ6KvBA.png

 

Because of a result from previous screenshot, accessing the top of black cubes is not possible.

jYa1IVu.png

 

This switch doesn't control anything. As I remember, originally it should raise the floor nearby.

2lgsXYm.png

 

The yellow key can be grabbed from pedestal just by running around.

vh6n3j2.png

 

Inside wooden building, there are two lifts, the one of them is also window. If you activate both of them, you can see missing texture.

kyuCaZn.png

 

Another lift have stretchings.

NFRyw98.png

 

Another broken construction. I can't go further, also the missing texture appeared and stretchings. This path originally should lead forward.

i5mNUoV.png

 

Floating ceiling bug. Fix ceiling heights.

OhfC8MN.png

Also I not visited north area because it is not accessible. There is a chance it also have bugs.

 

@Dark Pulse

Bloodsea Keep

Floating ceiling bug in two places.

YhSPbwW.png

 

wprjYEu.png

 

Originally, it was totally dark sector with imps at the top. But it may just be picky.
KfNfNfR.png

The penultimate room have two stairs which have too many steps which lower the framerate. What is the reason to leave so many steps?
WuH8by7.png

uRTYO0M.png

The same with library. Does it make sense to leave all the shelves? Given that the staircase is SO curved and has many steps. It would be possible to simplify the stairs a bit and reduce the number of shelves.

ZPuQ7tl.png

Also where is the chaingun on this map? And how to access the area which originally tagged 666, there must be a chaingun.

The C.P.U.

There is nothing to show, because it's the audio issue. Seems that "Larva Circuits" music track is too memory-heavy for this map and as result barons, PE's and cacodemons lose some of their sounds.

Dante's Gate
The texture is stretch when lift at the lower point. This is not just the usual “jitter” that we see on doortracks, e.t.c..
F42qGrr.png

Device One
The place where you can drop down and get stucked.
od4eRGz.png

The Fury
A nitpicky one. There are two teleporters which have hanging corpses from sky. Even if it's been there originally, it will look like a bug, given the fact Slough of Despair fixed such issue.
jYF8LOw.png

The Enemy Inside
The wall behind the sphere, if you come closer, you see the distortion.
WplW2Cu.png

The Image Of Evil
This bars is translucent and also passable.
2PyHY7t.png
 

I saw similar closet but with the snake texture. I think rock texture here is by mistake.
LunRgnn.png

By lowering the lift which goes to another teleporter, this strange visual glitch is happened.
dzrgQZe.png

Moreover, when you visit that teleporter, you will be transported in megasphere closet, and then is not possible to get out from there.
I3POGDq.png

Open Season

Missing texture behind starting platform when it's raised. Guess how I get there.

3NFjszm.png

Shipping Respawning

I know that the darkness has benefited the atmosphere of this corridor, but it's a bit overkill, and I have to navigate using the automap.

KmjsaYJ.png

 

Missing automap line.
7nSJv0N.png

Glitching texture effect in this closet.

NFbtasx.png

 

Missing textures at the sides?

F6u5uoo.png

 

The windows have problems when you come closer.

kFep03a.png

 

Possible to stuck here.

7bs13tz.png

 

Stretchings when lift is lowered.

1fWa8CK.png


@marver0PS
Bunker
Missing textures inside this closet.

M5pOCuL.png

 

Wrong ceiling flat at starting pedestal (or wrong heights?)

s4jO3ta.png

 

Going in this teleporter will cause fatal error.

jqO4ifT.png

 

c6ncaij.png

 

Odyssey of Noises

I think that you just forgot to replace the old fence on the left with the one on the right. Around the crater in this case should be the same fence.

D9ESmMn.png

 

Neurosphere

Still is very hard to get there. I wasted 10+ tries. There is a proposal to stick the right side of room to the beam on which the player is standing (see an example of how access to the yellow key on Dante's Gate). And then you can just run and make a strafe.

U39ODnH.png

 

The usual problem of this map: not optimized stairs which slowering the framerate every time when you looking at them. I ask the same question: what is the reason for leaving so many small steps? Steps can be placed not at one point of view, but at a certain distance. (other stairs like this also count) And the usage of door textures in decorative purposes will give players to think that there is a hidden door, and they will try to go in there. Hint: No one in Master Edition has used this door for this kind of decoration.

xonKttw.png

 

Same here but also the quantity of torch closets can potentially cause errors "FrontZClip: Point Overflow", "LeftEdgeClip: Point Overflow", "RightEdgeClip: Point Overflow" at a certain viewing angle. If you reduce them by 2 times, 99% of the players will not even notice it, but the performance will be better.

n7NdoGI.png

 

Not working teleporter.

XCnJwbB.png

 

 

P.S. Done. Because I edited this post, re-check what under the spoiler because you can miss important bug reports.

Edited by riderr3

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, riderr3 said:

The Image Of Evil
This bars is translucent and also passable.
2PyHY7t.png
 

 

Not a bug. Really becomes a shortcut after a while. You'll agree if you play the original.

 

2 hours ago, riderr3 said:

Impossible to get out from that pit near translucent rocky walls.

OaWZpMq.png

 

This platform should never reach such height, setting itself in the middle instead.

Edited by mr-around

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, riderr3 said:

@Dark Pulse

Bloodsea Keep

Floating ceiling bug in two places.

YhSPbwW.png

 

wprjYEu.png

Damn it. And I worked so hard to get those eliminated.

 

I'll get that fixed.

 

3 hours ago, riderr3 said:

Originally, it was totally dark sector with imps at the top. But it may just be picky.
KfNfNfR.png

Aesthetic change.

 

The mainly dark sky and the low amount of flames able to come up would've made the Imps on top almost impossible to see if I'd kept it at its original level since the brightness was set to 0, plus the sector (for some reason) was tagged with Effect 8 (Sector Glow), even though it would've never glowed since Sector Glow requires a lower light level next to it to glow "down to" and oscillates between its higher set level, and its lowest neighbor sector's brightness level

 

Presumably, Sverre thought that it would oscillate up from 0 to 200 and back down to 0, but it doesn't. And since the neighboring sector to the pillar is 200, I was only so limited in what I could set it to and keep the oscillation.

 

3 hours ago, riderr3 said:

The penultimate room have two stairs which have too many steps which lower the framerate. What is the reason to leave so many steps?
WuH8by7.png

uRTYO0M.png

The second set of stairs is actually in the original map.

 

The first set is because in order to try to get rid of the crushers being floating ceilings as seen from the outside, I needed to sink the room down - without a sunken room you can see all four of the crushers floating easily if you run a loop outside the keep. The original version has the floor at 128; I needed to sink it down to -40 to get rid of the floating crusher ceilings. While I could've used a lift, there's already tons of lifts in this room. I decided to go for something a bit more aesthetic.

 

This last third of the map (from here until the end) is really what consumed most of my time besides figuring out what monsters/decorations to cull, because in the original map these areas were heights of 300-500+ units. A lot of shrinking and compromise work had to be done here. With me sinking the room down as much as I did, stairs or a lift is pretty much inevitable.

 

I could possibly reduce the number of stairs a bit, but then they would be very big and chunky steps, and even then, savings is borderline negligible (Two 24s = 48 units; Three 16s = 48 units), so in the end you're really only shaving off two or three stairs in most staircases. I really try not to go higher than a step height of 16 when possible; I know the step limit is 24 (see the room just before then when I use those - itself needed in order to sink this room down without being ridiculous), but it's much harder to make something that looks aesthetically good with that step height.

 

So since I'd like to avoid the crushers becoming floating ceilings, it's going to come at the cost of steps, or yet another lift in an area that's already got ten of them, plus four crushing ceilings.

 

Pick your poison.

 

3 hours ago, riderr3 said:

The same with library. Does it make sense to leave all the shelves? Given that the staircase is SO curved and has many steps. It would be possible to simplify the stairs a bit and reduce the number of shelves.

ZPuQ7tl.png

Stairs already got reduced in half from the original map in the library, and like other stairs, need to look aesthetically good as well. Same challenge as any large set of stairs that's bringing together two significantly different sets of heights - you need to have a consistent step height, it needs to look aesthetically pleasing, and, of course, still function identically (so you can't reduce them too much). It's probably about the best balance I can get there, though I did spot an extra vertex I can delete amongst them thanks to this report.

 

As for bookcases, while I could reduce them, it's not actually going to make much of a difference. What's really going to slow this room down isn't this area so much - it's that if you turn in the opposite direction, the game will be forced to render the sky and all the stuff on the outside of the map, basically. Looking the way you are in this shot, performance shouldn't be too bad.

 

3 hours ago, riderr3 said:

Also where is the chaingun on this map? And how to access the area which originally tagged 666, there must be a chaingun.

Same place as in the original.

 

The Mancubus is no longer there to trigger the secret for memory reasons, but I added a tripwire to the area where it was that will lower the walls of the area you'd claim it at. If you run in far enough to grab the rocket launcher and its ammo, it will activate and lower the walls.

 

3 hours ago, riderr3 said:

Open Season

Missing texture behind starting platform when it's raised. Guess how I get there.

3NFjszm.png

By being a big ol' chickenshit doo-doo head who doesn't want to fight the big, scary demons. :P

 

Good catch regardless; I'll submit a fix for that to Erick.

 

3 hours ago, riderr3 said:

Neurosphere

Still is very hard to get there. I wasted 10+ tries. There is a proposal to stick the right side of room to the beam on which the player is standing (see an example of how access to the yellow key on Dante's Gate). And then you can just run and make a strafe.

U39ODnH.png

I'm kind of on the fence here. On one hand, it is supposed to be challenging to get in there. On the other hand, I don't want to make it a cakewalk to get in there, either.

 

I might lower the floor a bit more to give a little more leeway, but I'd like some other opinions from people as to whether I really should make this markedly easy, or keep it a challenge to get to.

 

3 hours ago, riderr3 said:

The usual problem of this map: not optimized stairs which slowering the framerate every time when you looking at them. I ask the same question: what is the reason for leaving so many small steps? Steps can be placed not at one point of view, but at a certain distance. (other stairs like this also count) And the usage of door textures in decorative purposes will give players to think that there is a hidden door, and they will try to go in there. Hint: No one in Master Edition has used this door for this kind of decoration.

xonKttw.png

Stairs aren't really the problem; draw distance basically is. Once you round that corner, you're rendering several further rooms away, since Neurosphere is a rather open map. That will make framerate take a hit.

 

Neurosphere is hit fairly hard with it in some parts (especially the area with the Plasma Rifle pickup, for example) because there's a lot of rooms being drawn and a lot of stuff you can see at a given time. I can bet you that if I reduce those steps by half, it won't actually speed things up all that much at all.

 

I generally tried to keep my "metric of badness" at about 10 FPS. If it was above that, it was tolerable, since that's about the worst that original maps lowered to. Though then again, this is also why I say people who play this, if they're not playing on original hardware, really should play it in an emulator and overclock the emulated CPU, because yeah, WANTING the clunk is a bit silly. :P

 

As for the texturing: I was limited in texture space; I needed a texture to fill the gap since the originals were banners (which got cut for memory reasons); I really didn't want to use a fire sky in yet another map (since it risks being overused) even though it'd give me the space I'd need for the banners; and I wanted to keep it feeling, well, Plutonia-y via a red sky. That forced me to compromise on those alcoves.

 

The torches should be more than enough to tell you they're not doors (since you can't get past them), and the skulls seemed to give it a nice motif.

 

3 hours ago, riderr3 said:

Same here but also the quantity of torch closets can potentially cause errors "FrontZClip: Point Overflow", "LeftEdgeClip: Point Overflow", "RightEdgeClip: Point Overflow" at a certain viewing angle. If you reduce them by 2 times, 99% of the players will not even notice it, but the performance will be better.

n7NdoGI.png

Never encountered that. They could definitely be reduced, if need be; I'd need to have some kind of angle at which to trigger it reliably to make sure though. Is that the angle you've got in your screenshot, or some other one?

 

(It'd be really good if the builder could get updated to figure out if these overflows could happen, and under what conditions if so)

 

3 hours ago, riderr3 said:

Not working teleporter.

XCnJwbB.png

Already found, fixed, and submitted to Erick (but if there needs to be a fix for the point overflow stuff that'd require submitting another newly fixed version).

Edited by Dark Pulse

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10 hours ago, Đeⓧiaz said:

 

Lower/upper unpegged flags? In any way, this bug is really annoying sometimes. If you've tried to check those flags, try also to make ceiling height smaller in this room.

Yup, flags are properly set. I even played around with different settings and floor and ceiling heights, no change. That same warping occurs when you use any door or elevator even in the official maps so I'm not sure if that is something I can fix.

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3 minutes ago, Uroboros87 said:

Yup, flags are properly set. I even played around with different settings and floor and ceiling heights, no change. That same warping occurs when you use any door or elevator even in the official maps so I'm not sure if that is something I can fix.

 

I also thought this is small "jittering" effect seen also at any kind of door tracks. There should be no problem then. A real stretching occurs near very high lifts.

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On 8/25/2019 at 4:27 AM, Lollie said:

Has any work gone into adding Final Doom's mouse compatibility to the original PSX Doom somehow? Can the PSX Doom levels be transplanted into the Final Doom engine, maybe?

Hoping for an answer on this - Mouse compatibility was something I brought up a while ago, it's something the original PSX Doom lacked. @Erick194?

 

On 10/5/2019 at 12:31 AM, Dark Pulse said:

A version that intermixes our new levels with the originals. In other words, restoring the proper order of progression for the original games; turning the Master Levels into one single episode; SIGIL, NRFTL, and the Master Levels creators' other creations as their own little miniature episodes; whatever original level set we wind up creating as its own episode; and then throw in the miscellaneous stuff in some sort of "Bonus Maps" episode. This way, consistency is kept, level sequence is exactly like the originals, and so on.

I have to admit, as someone who has been keeping an eye on the project for a while, I thought this was the plan all along: An "uncut" version of PSX Doom, with previously-missing levels restored to their proper level order. Is that not the case?

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38 minutes ago, Lollie said:

Hoping for an answer on this - Mouse compatibility was something I brought up a while ago, it's something the original PSX Doom lacked. @Erick194?

Technically, normal Doom levels could be put into the PSX Final Doom engine, yes. I think Erick has reasons for not doing that specifically though - perhaps to preserve the "feel" of the menus and whatnot. That said, this will only affect a small subset of levels - the originals, Doom II, the couple of bonus maps Romero did, and maybe NRFTL/SIGIL. Master Levels, TNT, and Plutonia are all under the Final Doom engine in the hack.

 

I know I asked him if he wanted me to do Tech Gone Bad under PSX Doom or PSX Final Doom limits, and he told me to do it under the original's, which does mean I'll need to cut down several thousand more sidedefs in comparison. (The original map blows past both games' limits, but I'd only need to cut down maybe a thousand in PSX Final Doom versus at least 3000 for PSX Doom.)

 

As for the mouse compatability - don't know. Haven't heard anything on it in awhile.

 

If you guys feel you'd rather have things just all done under the Final Doom engine though, then now's the time to speak up. Converting the maps over is pretty simple, but once maps are built with the original game's lower limits in mind, doing a version for the higher limits effectively means redoing the map.

 

43 minutes ago, Lollie said:

I have to admit, as someone who has been keeping an eye on the project for a while, I thought this was the plan all along: An "uncut" version of PSX Doom, with previously-missing levels restored to their proper level order. Is that not the case?

Nope. Master Edition strictly has the cut levels (and anything that's come out since), and none of the original maps are present in the game.

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Posted (edited)
52 minutes ago, Lollie said:

Hoping for an answer on this - Mouse compatibility was something I brought up a while ago, it's something the original PSX Doom lacked. @Erick194?

 

I have to admit, as someone who has been keeping an eye on the project for a while, I thought this was the plan all along: An "uncut" version of PSX Doom, with previously-missing levels restored to their proper level order. Is that not the case? 

 

I was present in this thread initially and it was planned exactly as "Lost Levels for real PSX". And much later, sentences like "let's join the old maps to the new ones" began. As already noted, it is too late to change priorities and of course this kind of "uncut" project can be started later, but probably not under the guidance of the GEC, because they have their own projects. By the way, the faster Master Edition is released, the faster advanced tools will be available to us.

As for mouse support, this would be nice, but theoretically it would require decoding and copying some part of the code from Final Doom to Doom.

 

6 minutes ago, Dark Pulse said:

Technically, normal Doom levels could be put into the PSX Final Doom engine, yes. I think Erick has reasons for not doing that specifically though - perhaps to preserve the "feel" of the menus and whatnot. That said, this will only affect a small subset of levels - the originals, Doom II, the couple of bonus maps Romero did, and maybe NRFTL/SIGIL. Master Levels, TNT, and Plutonia are all under the Final Doom engine in the hack.

 

Here the question will even be interesting, which is more difficult - to port part of the code responsible for the mouse, or to adapt Doom maps for Final Doom (who knows what difficulties may arise). Although, for example, if these Doom maps were transferred to the Final Doom engine, this essentially means that the Doom engine will be thrown out (which is a little sad, because it’s like an imitation of Doom using Final Doom). I personally like the first option more.

Edited by riderr3

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2 hours ago, riderr3 said:

As for mouse support, this would be nice, but theoretically it would require decoding and copying some part of the code from Final Doom to Doom.

AFAIK, Erick has said he's completely decompiled and reversed the game. That'd presumably include the mouse code.

 

2 hours ago, riderr3 said:

Here the question will even be interesting, which is more difficult - to port part of the code responsible for the mouse, or to adapt Doom maps for Final Doom (who knows what difficulties may arise). Although, for example, if these Doom maps were transferred to the Final Doom engine, this essentially means that the Doom engine will be thrown out (which is a little sad, because it’s like an imitation of Doom using Final Doom). I personally like the first option more.

First is probably harder, but it'd mean that the original engine still gets use. That said, there's also relatively little reason to use the original engine except for authenticity's sake, considering that the differences between it and Final are negligible except for Sidedef limits (and I think a Sector/Subsector bump?), so Final is actually the superior engine.

 

Erick does seem determined to stick to the original engine for the original sets of maps, for what it's worth.

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5 hours ago, Dark Pulse said:

AFAIK, Erick has said he's completely decompiled and reversed the game. That'd presumably include the mouse code.

 

First is probably harder, but it'd mean that the original engine still gets use. That said, there's also relatively little reason to use the original engine except for authenticity's sake, considering that the differences between it and Final are negligible except for Sidedef limits (and I think a Sector/Subsector bump?), so Final is actually the superior engine.

 

Erick does seem determined to stick to the original engine for the original sets of maps, for what it's worth.

Plus the original has two music tracks not present in Final Doom.

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Lollie said:

Hoping for an answer on this - Mouse compatibility was something I brought up a while ago, it's something the original PSX Doom lacked. @Erick194?

We know you came up with that and it is just a matter of time to start working on it. We have many things to do in our life as well. Just wait a little more... this isn't that easy either... This is the official answer I give you... We still consider your good idea.

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Mostly been goofing around with the editor (mostly doing a SIGIL map ;) ) and I'm having a bit of an issue. The clip mid-texture feature is PSXFinal only. Is there any way to enable this for classic PSX DooM or will I have to use some trickery to bypass this issue?

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23 minutes ago, DynamiteKaitorn said:

The clip mid-texture feature is PSXFinal only. Is there any way to enable this for classic PSX DooM or will I have to use some trickery to bypass this issue?

 

In Doom, it possibly only when lowering the ceiling sector around the mid-texture, and it must be the sky.

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23 minutes ago, DynamiteKaitorn said:

Mostly been goofing around with the editor (mostly doing a SIGIL map ;) ) and I'm having a bit of an issue. The clip mid-texture feature is PSXFinal only. Is there any way to enable this for classic PSX DooM or will I have to use some trickery to bypass this issue?

Until the PSXDoom reconstruction is complete, yes. Meanwhile you have to use some tricks.

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Please replace Club DOOM with this! (or add it as a super-secret level somewhere else) This is to damn good!

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3 hours ago, Kroc said:

Please replace Club DOOM with this! (or add it as a super-secret level somewhere else) This is to damn good!

Thanks for such kind words! But there is a lot of secret maps for Master Edition. I didn't planned to put it in.

 

32 minutes ago, riderr3 said:

I guess the level music was overlaid on the video. Or not.

Yes, that's right. Of course it can use the Club Doom audio trigger but it's not supported in standalone-one-map builds (I mean, there is no way to add new track inside)

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Stuff like this is why I hope we get some custom music tools, and soon.

 

I'd still like a crack at unleashing the sonic horrors.

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6 hours ago, Gerardo194 said:

Off topic: we have finished with our high school... finally.

 

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The good news is that currently we have the only opportunity to see Spider Mastermind in Final Doom (due to memory limits), since the GEC decided to add the remaining maps from the Cabal series, here are two of them:


And this one has Cyberdemon, which is also a rare guest:

 

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