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Erick194

[GEC] Master Edition PSX Doom for the PlayStation. 1/10/2019 (Beta 3 Release Now!, Are You Ready For More Action?)

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Okay so I finally got myself a controller (Nintendo Switch Pro Controller) and weirdly now I CAN input some of the cheats like god mode and the X-ray cheat. Not fully sure why the codes don't work when I used my keyboard but at least I can now test maps more efficiently. :D

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2 hours ago, DynamiteKaitorn said:

Okay so I finally got myself a controller (Nintendo Switch Pro Controller) and weirdly now I CAN input some of the cheats like god mode and the X-ray cheat. Not fully sure why the codes don't work when I used my keyboard but at least I can now test maps more efficiently. :D

They've got to be put in at a fairly steady and consistent rhythm.

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I hope Temple of Death removes the silly barrels at the start. They were rather indicative of the map being Sverre's first Doom map

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Do you think it's possible to add the other two Titan maps (Mines of Titan and Trouble on Titan) as well as The Interdiction Zone, Surrounded (can be a secret level), and The Enigma Episode from Jim Flynn? I could try to take a stab at a couple of these - no promises though.

EDIT: Before I do, I'd like to see if I can fill in for Dragonsbrethren's unfinished map slots since he went AWOL earlier this year.

Edited by Impboy4 : additional stuff

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33 minutes ago, Impboy4 said:

Do you think it's possible to add the other two Titan maps (Mines of Titan and Trouble on Titan) as well as The Interdiction Zone, Surrounded (can be a secret level), and The Enigma Episode from Jim Flynn? I could try to take a stab at a couple of these - no promises though.

EDIT: Before I do, I'd like to see if I can fill in for Dragonsbrethren's unfinished map slots since he went AWOL earlier this year.

Both of those would be an absolute nightmare with how huge and high it is. The renderer's stretching issue would have to be fixed before it could even be remotely done justice on the PSX, I think.

 

Maybe a Doom 64 version - if one of those comes to fruition.

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2 minutes ago, Dark Pulse said:

Both of those would be an absolute nightmare with how huge and high it is. The renderer's stretching issue would have to be fixed before it could even be remotely done justice on the PSX, I think.

 

Maybe a Doom 64 version - if one of those comes to fruition.

Well it can't hurt to try. If stuff is too extreme it can be cut out or reduced.

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3 minutes ago, Impboy4 said:

Well it can't hurt to try. If stuff is too extreme it can be cut out or reduced.

...This is Jim Flynn we're talking about.

 

USVQ2rj.jpg

 

ZPqWzUo.jpg

 

In short: Good luck - because you'll need it.

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So I finally got around to playing Beta 3. Found a couple things while playing, sorry if these were already reported. You can see the issue followed by the map and location. 

1013191046.jpg

1013191046a.jpg

1013191108.jpg

1013191108a.jpg

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I don't want to be just negative, by the way. This has been fantastic to experience as it comes together. 12 year old me would have never imagined that it would be possible to dramatically expand the PSX Doom library like you have all done. It's really a trip down Nostalgia Lane to play this. 

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7 hours ago, Impboy4 said:

Do you think it's possible to add the other two Titan maps (Mines of Titan and Trouble on Titan)

I already tried two other Titan maps months ago. They have a HUGE LOAD OF LINEDEFS which are necessary for progression. By my calculations even after removing stairs and entire sections, there will be no more than two types of monsters. And also a huge height variations. I would not want to spoil this map and the project with irrational conversion.

 

6 hours ago, Dark Pulse said:

Both of those would be an absolute nightmare with how huge and high it is. The renderer's stretching issue would have to be fixed before it could even be remotely done justice on the PSX, I think.

 

Maybe a Doom 64 version - if one of those comes to fruition.

Agree.

 

16 hours ago, Devalaous said:

I hope Temple of Death removes the silly barrels at the start. They were rather indicative of the map being Sverre's first Doom map

I think it would be quite simple to reduce them in half. In order not to take away the fun.

 

4 hours ago, Job said:

So I finally got around to playing Beta 3. Found a couple things while playing, sorry if these were already reported. You can see the issue followed by the map and location. 

 

1013191108.jpg

1013191108a.jpg

This switch works. You mean this switch can be used through the nearby wall? But this does not change the situation in this case.

 

If you think that I added a metal switch instead of a wooden one just by whim or by mistake, just use the VRAM cheat shown on the Doomwiki Master Edition page and see how I and other mappers struggle to save space for textures. Especially when switches takes 2 times more space.

 

Edit:

Another option - it is from such angles that some textures seem incorrectly aligned horizontally (but it is not). It's a feature of the engine, not a mapping error.

Edited by riderr3

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@riderr3, the switch works fine. I was probably being too knit picky, but if you look at the vertex in the corner where the switch meets the adjacent wall, the switch texture starts to tile a bit at certain angles. Not sure if the switch linedef being shortened and realigned would fix this or not, to be honest. 

 

Edit: Ha! I stated drafting my reply before you made your edit and I must not have noticed. You are exactly right, I believe that's just a quirk of the engine. Disregard. 

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1 hour ago, Job said:

@riderr3, the switch works fine. I was probably being too knit picky, but if you look at the vertex in the corner where the switch meets the adjacent wall, the switch texture starts to tile a bit at certain angles. Not sure if the switch linedef being shortened and realigned would fix this or not, to be honest. 

 

Edit: Ha! I stated drafting my reply before you made your edit and I must not have noticed. You are exactly right, I believe that's just a quirk of the engine. Disregard. 

Yeah, it's basically a renderer flaw. You'll see it in pretty much every map if you look carefully enough at any texture like that.

 

Essentially, without a rewritten renderer, nothing can really be done about it.

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2 hours ago, riderr3 said:

I already tried two other Titan maps months ago. They have a HUGE LOAD OF LINEDEFS which are necessary for progression. By my calculations even after removing stairs and entire sections, there will be no more than two types of monsters. And also a huge height variations. I would not want to spoil this map and the project with irrational conversion.

A shame really. Do you have any info about the Enigma Episode and Interdiction Zone whether those can be successfully converted?

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20 hours ago, Impboy4 said:

A shame really. Do you have any info about the Enigma Episode and Interdiction Zone whether those can be successfully converted?

In general, the same sorts of rules apply regardless of map - he does a lot of height-based stuff, so it's going to result in a difficult-to-impossible conversion for PSX Doom.

 

Rooms over 256 high are simply not workable due to the renderer stretching textures past that; it can also very easily flip textures (in an undesired way) if pegging is done and textures are moved on the Y axis past that limit. Now, obviously you can still go over 256 high, but it must be done carefully - no single, individual sector will be over 256 high without some very clever trickery being done, and even those are kludges (stuff like making slivers of walls only 256 high, etc. but this would quickly blow up the sector count and geometrical complexity, which could crash the game). Essentially, the renderer would need to be rewritten to fix this, along with some other issues (for example, large floor surfaces tend to have some noise/breakup).

 

To answer your question more directly: A quick look at both of those maps show height, height, and more height. Height is PSX Doom's enemy due to what I mentioned. Could they be done? Some of them, possibly, but not all, and even then they'd be very much compromised on stuff like monster variety and whatnot in all likelihood. If the map uses a Cyberdemon, you can basically kiss goodbye most of the other enemy types - you might be able to fit another type or two but that's all. There's simply not enough RAM, and the more complex a map is, the more you have to compromise on monster variety as well since the map takes more data - and memory is a very precious resource on the PSX.

 

Something like this might be more workable on the Doom 64 Engine (which has considerably higher limits, due to the expanded RAM, better renderer, etc. compared to the PSX version), but it will be awhile before any sort of project is done on that version. Finishing PSX Master Edition comes first; work on hacking Doom 64 in that way really won't have any public versions until after that, I'd expect.

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Then @Impboy4 will take the abandoned maps of Dragonsbrethren?, if so they are yours then, since at the end of last month I contacted Dragonsbrethren and he told me that I had no interest in continuing with the maps.

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10 hours ago, Erick194 said:

Then @Impboy4 will take the abandoned maps of Dragonsbrethren?, if so they are yours then, since at the end of last month I contacted Dragonsbrethren and he told me that I had no interest in continuing with the maps.

 

What about fixing old maps, which is equally important?

I hope that the wall that heavily alter the progress in Well of Souls was just a temporary solution, because not all of us knew the features of the engine.

Especially when a ready-made solution is already found:

 

With this wall, passing on becomes too tricky. Moreover, this is the first map in the episode. If this wall is only to prevent a error (which can be fixed), there is no particular reason to leave it. Searching in this thread "Well of Souls", "Caged", "Power Control" can still find some more unresolved minor issues. Minor bug fixes may be made by the GEC for those members who long time no participating (after all, this is a community project).

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14 hours ago, Impboy4 said:

@riderr3 Can you post a list of the bugs mentioned in Power Control and Caged? I applied the Well of Souls fix mr-around mentioned.

Here they are:
 

Spoiler

 

Caged:
It's a possible to pull the exit switch from the sides and skip whole map. Needs small redesign. Here are also noticeable slowdown because of 3 small "exit sectors" inside the cage.
Jpiu066.png

 

Power control:

An harmless HK. His projectiles bumping into wall. I suggest a little bit lowering the windows

tWGwzpb.png

 

Mostly harmless NM Spectre. He stucked inside this section

HdEPitW.png

 

This path exists only for multiplayer, but it also can be opened from the side, through the wall, in singleplayer

527LPF3.png



Well of Souls:

Behind blue armor there are wall which can be lowered from another side, normally player should cross the bridge and pull the switch to lower this wall.

PyJT9dh.png

 

pB6I9lB.png

 

A situation where a player can get stuck with certain actions.

Near the final room it's possible to lower the lift from another side:

eCcbYDK.png

Then cross action line at red door:

6MNkgGu.png

Now it's not possible to finish this map because the lift is lowered and not working anymore:

DcK22Pf.png

I suggest making the switch in the screenshot above reusable (SR instead of S1)

 

Initially, these 4 columns showed us the passage to the invisible bridge. But now that this bridge has become visible in the Master Edition, these pillars have become completely unnecessary and even interfering for several reasons:
1) They interfere with the normal movement and passage for the player, given the control from the gamepad
2) They cause more slowdowns
3) The bridge appears immediately and there is no need for columns

4) In Lost Levels GZDoom TC, columns are also removed

ytI9GY7.png

 

 

2 hours ago, mr-around said:

Found some of the shots of Downtown at infant/adandoned development level. Can those modifications made by Dragonsbrethren be applied?

 

https://twitter.com/Dragonsbrethren/status/1012775537662709761

 

1.jpg.018c0a2d5cc293454d81a86c62f55871.jpg2.jpg.b8c38fd472342ebd1d6ff0fe4ae54c39.jpg3.jpg.bbaf423397b3328c554a6ef227b6e9c4.jpg

 

 

At least it’s worth leaving arachnotrons here, because they are rare. As for the heights - this will also need to see how it will contrast with the neighboring level Industrial Zone where outdoor spaces are above 256 units and the dummy sectors are used to prevent texture stretching. If there are strong lags on Downtown - then the heights can be lowered.

And there are screenshots of not completed Realm from this thread (more than year ago):

image.png

 

image.png

 

image.png

 

 

Also few more issues found in Beta 3 maps.

 

@Deⓧiaz

Trapped on Titan:

Possible to stuck here and also at the left side.

Z0ucLwC.png

 

@marver0PS

Caughtyard:

Missing textures is exposed on few wooden pillars.

nFnTMtd.png

 

Initially is not possible to stand on those beams, so here player can jump down and skip/broke progress.

BdCpShR.png

 

Same as here and also you can see pseudo 3D effect on high pillar, but when you step left, the top of pillar is disappears.

7D3MQdH.png

 

On the very first menu where the game is selected, the "Loading" plates is incorrect.
When you switch the cursor to Final Doom (Master) and you start, light metal plate from Doom appears:

FVyLZb2.png


And if you go back From Final Doom to Doom and start, a plate from Final Doom with dark metal appears:

9rnOiCL.png

 

Edited by riderr3

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Would it be possible to program the run button to be toggleable, sort of like caps lock on the PC? If not that, just an always run on/off option? 

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6 hours ago, Job said:

Would it be possible to program the run button to be toggleable, sort of like caps lock on the PC? If not that, just an always run on/off option? 

 

Agree, but what about the fact that for example I’m used to always keeping the "Square" pressed in the PSX Doom? Different opinions must be taken into account.

 

Using different button combination for toggle "Always Run" will be most liberate option (if this turned ON, you hold the square and will go slower). It's like Shift and Caps on PC Doom has different functions. Thus, we will not offend those who are used to the old controls (as I said earlier with the catch phrase "do not demolish the foundation", that is, the add-on is better than demolition).

 

P.S.

It is not practical to add an entire graphical option to the menu, it will take more strings, memory, e.t.c. In case this is possible, this would also be a suitable option.

Edited by riderr3

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