[GEC] Master Edition PSX Doom for the PlayStation. Beta 4 Released [11/16/2022]

[Uroboros87]

5 hours ago, riderr3 said:

It's too early to rejoice. NRFTL is limit-removing mapset, just take a look how many linedefs and sidedefs it contains. At least x2 more than average TNT maps, end even further. So it will be a mountain that will have to move.

I'm not as familiar with NRFTL but, would it be better to port these maps to psxdoom or psxfinaldoom or will there be a custom exe specifically for NRFTL? I know final doom is the superior version but doesn't NRFTL use doom II assets.

[riderr3]

2 hours ago, mr-around said:

Alright! Odyssey of Noises now works fine with the all the textures and flats converted, enemies number reduced to only three (chaingunners, imps and revenants are the only villians here, so how boring the map is now) and no decorations except one small grey tree. The game, however, crashes saying Z_MAlloc: Failed Allocation on <a_stupid_number> anytime I die or click to restart the map. Here's the level data.

 

----- 1699 Verts -----
----- 2055 Lines -----
----- 2951 Sides -----
----- 264 Sectors -----
----- 182 Objects -----

 

Am I to delete more things on the map (boy, 182 is a quite nice quantity for PSX!) or the level geometry was the cause?

It's not because of quantity of monsters and other things. Better get them back also on another maps. It's all depends on how many TYPES of monsters will present on map (sprite sizes matters, that's why Mastermind is most rarest enemy) and also depends on quantity of linedefs/sidedefs, vertices and sectors.
Trees and other things will consume very little space, because they don't have rotations and mostly not-animated.

So if you already have some revenants on map, sure you can add much more! Also with small trees. Add stuff which already presented on map. On this map you need to cut at least 300-400 lines to get space for pinky or cacodemon for example (according to my calculations).

You can take a cue from Tombstone which I did yesterday:

Looking at the stats it's unbelievable that PSX can run this massive map with such variety of monsters! But it works, because I've joined some sectors and reduced many optional lines which not affecting the progression + it has removed the slowdowns.

On bigger maps don't forget to build with Find Side, it can save some space, may be even will enough for new type of baddies.
 

1 hour ago, Uroboros87 said:

I'm not as familiar with NRFTL but, would it be better to port these maps to psxdoom or psxfinaldoom or will there be a custom exe specifically for NRFTL? I know final doom is the superior version but doesn't NRFTL use doom II assets.

NRTFL don't use new textures at least, and I suppose NRFTL will be as part of Doom 2, like original PSX Doom where you choosing in-game episodes like Ultimate Doom and Doom 2. Because custom GEC menu currently can hold up to 5 titles as I know.

Also I think that city sky will best suited for the first maps, because it's happening on Earth Base. And there are city buildings are visible from the windows.

Edit:

3 minutes ago, mr-around said:

Also, does the thing like unjoining the previously merged sectors greatly simplify the level? 

It's more relying on linedefs than sectors. Depends how many linedefs that sector contains. But it's anyway preferable to reduce/join them both. Also important note on joining sectors: look to sound propagation mode to keep lines which are blocks the sound. Or after joining monsters can wake up early.
 

Edited October 2, 2018 by riderr3

[mr-around]

11 minutes ago, riderr3 said:

It's not because of quantity of monsters and other things. Better get them back also on another maps. It's all depends on how many TYPES of monsters will present on map (sprite sizes matters, that's why Mastermind is most rarest enemy) and also depends on quantity of linedefs/sidedefs, vertices and sectors.
Trees and other things will consume very little space, because they don't have rotations and mostly not-animated.

So if you already have some revenants on map, sure you can add much more! Also with small trees. Add stuff which already presented on map. On this map you need to cut at least 300-400 lines to get space for pinky or cacodemon for example (according to my calculations).

You can take a cue from Tombstone which I did yesterday:

Looking at the stats it's unbelievable that PSX can run this massive map with such variety of monsters! But it works, because I've joined some sectors and removed many optional lines which not affecting the progression + it has removed the slowdowns.

On bigger maps don't forget to build with Find Side, it can save some space, may be even will enough for new type of baddies.

 

Comparing to your level, MAP29 has 1699 Vertices, 2055 Linedefs and 2951 Sidedefs after I cleaned up the level and ONLY 182 Things... and all that against your complex map having lesser quantity of geometry but on the other hand much more things and thing types (mine currently has only three monster types) with the map data you provided on the screenshot.

 

Looks like I gonna indeed simplify the geometry instead of things... getting back those cacos, demons/spectres and even Hell knights.

[mr-around]

Also, does the thing like unjoining the previously merged sectors greatly simplify the level?

[Dexiaz]

Just tested the new version of Map Builder. And this is awesome! Now it's really easy to find and fix lagging textures without compiling and running the whole level.

You guys awesome as always

[Erick194]

1 hour ago, riderr3 said:

like original PSX Doom where you choosing in-game episodes like Ultimate Doom and Doom 2. Because custom GEC menu currently can hold up to 5 titles as I know.

Exactly, NRFTL will be included in DOOM II.

 

50 minutes ago, DeXiaZ said:

Just tested the new version of Map Builder. And this is awesome! Now it's really easy to find and fix lagging textures without compiling and running the whole level.

You guys awesome as always

Thank you, really thanks to all of you, because the error report of several tools that I have created, have improved a lot. =)

[DynamiteKaitorn]

I noticed the NRFTL maps aren't included in the PSX levels link and the XBOX Levels link just sends you to the regular PSX levels list.

[Erick194]

This is the same link as in the OP.

PSX XBOX Levels

[DynamiteKaitorn]

Yeah it needs updating.

[Erick194]

In this link is the rar file, which contains 3 folders "NRFTL, BETRAY, SEWERS" and in them the levels converted to psx format, or do you think they should be in the PSX file LEVES?.

[DynamiteKaitorn]

When I use that link, I'm sent to the regular PSX Levels list.

 

Media-fire being derpy?

[Erick194]

How strange, I try it and it redirects me well to the link.
http://www.mediafire.com/file/hzvpo0k8959nx86/XBOX+LEVELS.rar

[DynamiteKaitorn]

AHA! I found the error! Whenever I try to download, Media-fire coughs up a "OI! BLOODY DISABLE THAT AB-BLOCK M8!" And for some reason when I click the button to continue with my adblock enabled, it seems to send me to th PSX levels download page. I managed to out-smart the anti-adblock BS and got the correct download to pop up... Kinda weir since Media-fire never cared about ad-block before >_>

[RonLivingston]

10 hours ago, mr-around said:

Odyssey of Noises works but it constantly (or at least at numerous outside areas) bombs me out with the message RightEdgeClip: Point Overflow. Don't remember what this specifically implies (we must have already a talk over that but I ain't going to start over the whole thread again for now).

 

The framerate is quite average in the large areas (like the large blood pool in the south), sometimes even smooth.

 

Should'nt odyssey of noises take place with the hell sky and the psx hell keep soundtrack? you could also remove the rocky roads and the blood pits where those tele pads are

 

[mr-around]

6 hours ago, RonLivingston said:

Should'nt odyssey of noises take place with the hell sky and the psx hell keep soundtrack? you could also remove the rocky roads and the blood pits where those tele pads are

 

The star base sky is really the best choice which fits the new texture theme and the atmosphere of the level (none of the Hellish scape, fire sky nor even the Thy Flesh Consumed clouds are suitable) even though this is the deep hell before the final boss level (PSX did utilize it on most of Plutonia maps and Master Levels and TNT as well except Level 30, which due to an error of a map designer, I guess, gave you E1 scape).

"Bells of Agony", "Infectious", "Tendrils Of Hate", "Breath Of Corruption" & "In The Grip Of Madness" would all be very good to hear on the map, but currently I ain't able to choose soundtrack (swapping the music .LCD file with another one only results in music disabled at all). 

About removal of the rocky road and blood pits. Deleting those ones would darkly affect the aesthetics, so let me better tone down anything else on the map to make it work correctly.

[riderr3]

2 hours ago, mr-around said:

 

The star base sky is really the best choice which fits the new texture theme and the atmosphere of the level (none of the Hellish scape, fire sky nor even the Thy Flesh Consumed clouds are suitable) even though this is the deep hell before the final boss level (PSX did utilize it on most of Plutonia maps and Master Levels and TNT as well except Level 30, which due to an error of a map designer, I guess, gave you E1 scape).

Agreed. This brown sky kinda best suited for this particular map. Like Thy Flesh sky which I use in Pharaoh with orange to yellow colored sectors across the map, because night sky is out of place here.

Also I need to update most of my maps to accordance with new tools and special effects of blank texture.

Edit: I realized that fire sky will slower framerate a little bit, compared to other skies. But at the other hand you can get space for 3 free textures because of it's size.

Edited October 3, 2018 by riderr3

[DynamiteKaitorn]

Why does so many regular DooM maps need to place multiple enemies in the exact same spot, but all of them being 1 specific difficulty? Did really old editors not allow multiple difficulty choices like modern day editors?

[mr-around]

2 hours ago, DynamiteKaitorn said:

Why does so many regular DooM maps need to place multiple enemies in the exact same spot, but all of them being 1 specific difficulty? Did really old editors not allow multiple difficulty choices like modern day editors?

 

This is not neccessary. Harder-to-kill enemy types are only to increment the difficuly on higher skill modes. The buddies altogether placed on the same point means only one creature should be spawned on that place while playing on a specific skill level. Many today's mods often use that (check TWID map packs for sample).

[DynamiteKaitorn]

I meant like why place 2 former sergeants in the exact same spot but on 2 different difficulties.

 

EDIT: Also I request Level 08 rather than level 01 of NRFTL.

[mr-around]

And I'd like taking E1M10: Sewers and MAPS 3, 4 & 5 of NRFTL (yet while I got steady malloc errors on my Odyssey of Noises).

[riderr3]

So, the Pharaoh in this version eventually got the locations and stuff which were deleted from Lost Levels TC! Also with the appropriate monster variety for such map (5).

This location is completely removed in Lost Levels.


Crusher trap is here, both with antecedent cave.


Thanks to transparent texture, this invisible walls now is possible.


I had few free linedefs at the end, and make wharf looks almost like original.


Also I'll explain how to make fast scrolling lines with using "Link Scroll" flag.

You need to build map with help of find side tool. And it's won't work at any wall, you need to find 2 or more similar chambers/pillars and apply this flag to them.

@Erick194
I think the time has come for NRFTL, sign me please for Level 1: The Earth Base and Level 2: The Pain Labs

 

On 10/3/2018 at 5:13 PM, DynamiteKaitorn said:

EDIT: Also I request Level 08 rather than level 01 of NRFTL.

You also can use special tag 670 to open door after cyberdemon were dead. As it done in Marches, Gotcha and Grosse.
 

On 10/3/2018 at 9:52 PM, mr-around said:

And I'd like taking E1M10: Sewers

Don't hesitate to add here Doom 2 monsters for UV skill, like it's done in PSX Doom.
 

Edited October 5, 2018 by riderr3

[Uroboros87]

I'm curious, will there be custom music in this project? The music in the original games were repeated in some maps and there are a lot of maps in this project. I worry that the music will start to sound repetitive.

[DynamiteKaitorn]

I vote dead rabbit theme for Hunted!

[riderr3]

If you think that this is the usual midi format, then you are deeply mistaken. Nobody, probably except GEC knows what is this WMD/LCD music format.
I only suppose that WMD is kind of soundfont for LCD music tracks.

I think when we finish the maps there will be an explanation, because it's too early question.

[Uroboros87]

I'm aware that the playstation uses a different music format, I was just curious. I asked because i remember seeing some youtube videos a few posts back some sort of player for the music.

[Dexiaz]

I've only know that people already tried to convert PSX Doom music into midis. The system of those tracks works as cheating the RAM. "Midi" plays 1 note, but the whole instrument is the complicated mixed effect, so it sounds like mp3 track. And in those "midis" not so many musical notes, because the duration of mixed effects is long.

 

Check this out:

http://www.mediafire.com/file/dvw69jt8vafbrov/dist2.7z

 

Source

[Dexiaz]

I have a question:

 

Why PSX Builder can't use option "replace" when I press F3 (like classic GZDoom Builder does)? It's really annoying when you need to replace all textures in few seconds, but you can select only "groups" of textures and replace them manually.

 

I mean, you can't replace every same LOWER+UPPER+MIDDLE texture. You only can "find" LOWER or find UPPER or find MIDDLE texture and also you need to click RMB to open this group and you need few clicks to choose new texture. Sometimes it takes a hour because there are too much of those textures in the original PC version. This fuction will reduce it for a couple of minutes.

 

I know it's only the feature of the GZDoom Builder, but the PSX Builder already based on GZDoom Builder... So why this useful function was cutted away?

[riderr3]

1 hour ago, DeXiaZ said:

I have a question:

 

Why PSX Builder can't use option "replace" when I press F3 (like classic GZDoom Builder does)? It's really annoying when you need to replace all textures in few seconds, but you can select only "groups" of textures and replace them manually.

 

I mean, you can't replace every same LOWER+UPPER+MIDDLE texture. You only can "find" LOWER or find UPPER or find MIDDLE texture and also you need to click RMB to open this group and you need few clicks to choose new texture. Sometimes it takes a hour because there are too much of those textures in the original PC version. This fuction will reduce it for a couple of minutes.

 

I know it's only the feature of the GZDoom Builder, but the PSX Builder already based on GZDoom Builder... So why this useful function was cutted away?

Not sure what you mean, but if you have DosBox installed you can use dm2conv tool to convert all names of textures and flats to their PSX derivatives even without find and replace, in a couple of seconds. I explained it here. Just use the tool before converting map to PSX format, or flats can be screwed. I use this tool myself because still there is no alternatives.

Also I did not believe that some of PSX Builder features was cutted away, at least I feel no difference between it an GZDB.

[Erick194]

I do not know why they did it, but in the Search type option: there are these two options "Sidedef Texture (Any)" and "Sector Flat (Any)". which allows to change everything in "Upper, Lower and Middle" and "Floor and Ceiling".

[RonLivingston]

The PSX version of mining coloney, you can see I removed the spider mastermind due too PSX memory only allowing 4-7 monster types and 3-4 monster types cant allow the spider mastermind here. You can also see another photo of how stretchy the textures look. I could allow the spider mastermind here before I test it and see what it looks like