(Private alphas in progress) Infernew, a Community Project

[sarge945]

16 hours ago, bonnie said:

 

@sarge945 Yes but even with the worst zdoom settings I could think of, I couldn't get the lines to appear on the automap, nor could I get the decorations to block bullets. Were you referring to prboom+'s default automap colors?

How very strange. Both of those things happen on my mostly-vanilla gzdoom install

 

8 hours ago, HAK3180 said:

I don't usually map like this, but I have the bare bones/basic progression done and almost no things placed.

 

Here's a Crispy video (everything's good in Chocolate so far). No monsters at all, so it's kinda boring. Crank the video speed up if you want.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Some areas' detailing is not final (red key area in particular). I expect basic geometry is pretty close to final. I will change the music but haven't decided what yet.

I'd say the main inspirations are Slough of Despair, Pandemonium, and House of Pain. It is big, but it's going to be pretty short (I'll shoot for casually maxable in ten minutes) and not too hard, so it can definitely occupy an early slot.

 

I'd welcome ideas if you see something and think, "Ooh, you know what would be cool there?..."

Looks good. Very interesting is how our design philosophies differ. I put in most of my enemy encounters first in a barebones level, then build up around it. It seems you do the opposite :P

 

About the map, the ourside area definitely gives a slough of despair style. It may feel even more SoD style (and be a more interesting map) with some stone pillars (like the ones near the start of SoD) with enemies/items behind them. Also, you might want to use FLOOR6_2 a little more to give it more of the SoD vibe, especially near the lava river. The stone does look nice though. I would replace the MFLR8_3 with FLOOR6_2 to maintain the vibe and maybe darken that area a bit. If the area past the Blue Door with the green wall panels is supposed to emulate Pandemonium, you might get a better effect having a lot of wood textures around there as well, since IIRC the map is absolutely full of wood (teehee). The layout is totally fantastic though, don't change it too much :)

 

But I am pretty new to map design, so feel free to disregard all of this.

Edited July 10, 2018 by sarge945

[sarge945]

8 hours ago, Walter confetti said:

map name:  Swamps of the obscured presence

Most inspired by: Slough of despair

Build time: 4 hours... divided in 4 days lol

Music:  from skulltag (Descent 2?)

Coop support: full but untested

DM support: no, just one spawning point

Description: A short map inspired from Slough of Despair, with a twist. What twist? Play and you'll see it! This map is nothing really hard, even kinda of easy-ish imo

level and casual Demo: lostsoul.zip

 

Feedback is highly accepted!

 

Feedback:

- I would remove the chainsaw and instead put the berserk where the chainsaw is. We get the berserk too late for it to be of value. I would remove the healthkit near the blue door to compensate.

- The rocket launcher is useless. We get it far too late for it to be useful, and directly after we get it we go through the blue door which is all cramped hallways, where the rocket would be suicide. Maybe replace it with an SSG or a chaingun? Since the chaingun and SSG are both good against tomato boys and spooky scary skeletons (at least IMO), you might need to add in one or two more.

 

Overall, the difficulty is very good if not a tad too easy, the map geometry and shape is good, and I like the music. Overall there may be a few too many health kits, as I make a lot of mistakes and don't get punished for it very much, except for that initial death, which may be somewhat up to bad shotgunner damage RNG.

 

Also, based on that twist, I am surprised you didn't call this map soul of despair....oh well :P

 

Here is my FDA, played in Crispy Doom:

lsFDAsarge945.7z

Edited July 10, 2018 by sarge945 : tomato boy is the correct name for the enemy, not caco

[Walter confetti]

Ok... But the berserk is good as it is set (only on easy skills) or I have to implement it for all the skills?

 

Thanks for the feedback!

[sarge945]

14 hours ago, Garbage said:

Thanks to @sarge945 and @xvertigox for the feedback! I've moved some enemies around to spice up the combat. I did intend this to be an early map

 

New version has repositioned monsters, more detailing, and more multiplayer and difficulty application:

 

parabola.wad.zip

I miss fatso boi :(

 

Even with this level of difficulty, it has possibly too much health. I was over 100% a large proportion of the time.

 

But still, much better than the old version. Definitely feels like MAP01 or MAP02 level of difficulty, and that's not really a bad thing. My only real annoyance was the teleporter places the player facing away from the blue door. Easy fix, just rotate the teleport destination :)

 

This is an FDA even though I played the old version, sue me :P

parabolaFDAsarge945.7z

[sarge945]

9 minutes ago, Walter confetti said:

Ok... But the berserk is good as it is set (only on easy skills) or I have to implement it for all the skills?

 

Thanks for the feedback!

I thought I played on UV. whoops!

[Walter confetti]

No problem...

[sarge945]

3 hours ago, NaZa said:

Just dropping by to say that you haven't reserved a slot, so this is basically forcibly stealing somebody else's slot. 

You aren't missing much. Wolf3d has more floor and ceiling variety than this map

 

I only wasted about 30 seconds on this meme, but I get depression knowing it's 30 seconds I will never get back

[bonnie]

*** IMPORTANT UPDATE ***
I just wanted to restate some key points about the project regarding the kinds of maps expected as well as a reminder of the submission guidelines.
First, on the submission guidelines: something very important people have been neglecting to do has been properly naming your .wad files. They should be including an identifier of some sort (like bon or bn) as well as a version number. All files are to be formatted like this before the deadline.

 

Another thing to remember is to update all previous posts with the latest version of your map. Just include the most up-to-date link in all posts containing a link to a different version, as well as a version number. Simply changing the link isn't enough.

 

A final note on the submission guidelines is that you should actually be following the format I posted in the OP. If you're unfamiliar somehow, it's this:

 

Spoiler

• [map name]: [link to map]
• Most inspired by (list levels you drew the most inspiration from if any): ?
• Build time: ?
• Music (if known): ?
• Coop support: [starts only, limited, or full]
• DM support: [starts only, limited, or full]
• Description (optional): ?
• [type of demo, uv-max, casual, etc.]  Demo: [link to demo]
• [screenshot (at least one)]

 

If you've already submitted a map, update one of your posts to include this. If you're unable to fill out one of the items, just put a ? or a N/A or something similar, and edit it once you can fill it out. Don't forget to pick out a demo to represent your map (once you believe it to be in a finished state, so it would be best to leave this until we're nearing the deadline), and to mention who made the demo and what kind it is (casual, uv-speed, nm100s, etc).

 

No exceptions. If you've submitted something and aren't using the proper filenaming convention, editing your posts to be up-to-date, or using the submission guidelines format, please do so soon (you can wait on the filename part until your next update however, just focus on the other aspects right away).

 

If we all cooperate on this, it makes life significantly easier for everyone, especially me when I'm organizing, ordering, and compiling maps.

 

~

 

Anyways since some of you seem to be getting confoggled, I'd like to remind you guys that this is supposed to be Inferno, not generic hell maps. You should be aiming to emulate both visuals and gameplay from the E3 maps, such as for example the silver teleporter exits. Every single E3 map outside of e3m8 (and the secret exit) ends with a silver teleporter, so it's surprising that not many people have been incorporating them. I'm not heartbroken over it, just surprised. However, one thing I want to stress (again) is the length of the maps. I'm okay with closer to Plutonia levels of difficulty (so long as the combat still retains a largely doom 1 feel), but the maps should not last all that long.

 

Inferno maps create length through their interesting or slightly obscure progression, fit with a multitude of optional areas, traps, and pseudo-puzzles. Most of the Inferno maps can actually be completed quite quickly in a casual setting if you already know where you're supposed to go, as much of the level can be skipped and many traps avoided. This doesn't mean your levels can't be long, it's just that they can't be ridiculously long and certainly shouldn't require extensive exploring each time to complete the level.

 

Another aspect I'd like to stress again is to avoid having "finales" in your maps, as it's very un-doomlike in general. Your map should just end once all progression requirements have been met, you shouldn't have some massive horde waiting at the end or some grand ambush. You should just reach the end and (if you want) have a monster or two waiting at the exit.

Gameplay should be simple and brutish, with crowds of low to mid tier enemies in areas along with thorough ambushes, not massive hordes of high tier enemies or slaughter-levels of low tier ones either.

 

As for the visuals, they effectively use lighting to create atmosphere in the levels, as well as using either good texture variation or focusing on a color other than a generic red or brown (see e3m4 for a lot of these elements). Don't forget that too many Doom 2 textures or enemies can start polluting the E3 feel, so try to limit yourself somewhat.

Try to focus on some of these elements in your maps over the coming weeks.

 

~

 

P.S. Here's a spoiler with the mapper list again, just so that all mappers get mentioned and thus a notification for this (at least I hope, I really don't want to type out the mentions again ;~;).

Spoiler

1. @printz:                             interested :o
2. @NaZa:                             ♡ mapping! ♡

3. @Aquila Chrysaetos:             Malebolge

4. @MFG38:                           ♡ mapping! ♡

5. @bioshockfan90:                 ♡ mapping! ♡

6. @HAK3180:                        interested :o

7. @ETTiNGRiNDER:                 interested :o

8. @Pegleg:                            ♡ mapping! ♡

9. @Walter confetti:                 Swamps of the Obscured Presence

10. @Urthar:                            ♡ mapping! ♡

11. @dt_:                                In Awe

12. @xvertigox:                        Doomed to Suffer

13. @Darox:                            Sacrilege

14. @General Rainbow Bacon:      interested :o

15. @DMPhobos:                       interested :o

16. @Classicgamer6:                  interested :o

17. @Garbage:                         Parabola (WIP)

18. @jerrysheppy:                     interested :o

19. @xdarkmasterx:                  Church of Satan

20. @sarge945:                        Fortress of Despair

21. @bonnie:                           ♡ mapping! ♡

22. @JustCallMeKaito:                interested :o

23. @AD_79:                           Esoteric Entity

24. @Scypek2:                         interested :o

25. normaltype:                        interested :o

26. @Breezeep:                        interested :o

27. @danielhday:                      interested :o

28. @pc234:                            The Carcass

29. @Kapanyo:                         interested :o

30. @Big Ol Billy:                      interested :o

 

*** some feedback ***
@Darox I really liked it friend. It was simple and short with good E3 vibes, although some of the texture usage (especially in the center room and lifts) kind of hurt said vibes. I also felt like maybe some parts were just a little too difficult considering the relatively short length of the map, but it's most likely fine.

One particularly odd (and irrelevant) nitpick: I think you should probably just leave the exit door closed, for speedrunning purposes. I had some fun doing some UV-Speed runs on your map (my best time was 52 seconds), but it bothered me that you could just skip over the line that closes the door to nullify and kind of ruin the run as it just becomes a game of trying to skip the line. Obviously it doesn't actually matter at all, but I dunno :c

 

I played some other maps, but I'm gonna be away for the next few days and limited to my phone. I'll have a post dedicated to feedback when I get back. I don't know why I wrote this one at all, though. Oh well.

[HAK3180]

4 hours ago, sarge945 said:

It may feel even more SoD style (and be a more interesting map) with some stone pillars (like the ones near the start of SoD) with enemies/items behind them.

 

Yes, I do plan to add some blockades of some sort to make it more puzzle-ish, either with stone or fireblu. I do have to be careful in that big area though with the vanilla limitations, but that is definitely one area that will be getting some more detail.

[NaZa]

do not pay attention to the sky, it was because I was making the map in Doom format on slot MAP01

 

Map name: Sinner (v5)

Most inspired by: Limbo, although there's some Slough of Despair in it too.

Build time: 4 days + 2 hours cumulative for updates and stuff

Music: Waltz of the Demons

Coop support: Not sure, it's balanced for DM but there is Coop specific monsters and such.

DM support: Fully supported, the architecture changes to fit DM better.

Description: It's similar to Limbo in the sense that it has blood, a low amount of monsters and a secret. That's about it. Gameplay was the area where I gave myself more freedom so I made some controversial crusher traps as well as pretty devious pinky traps, but it's all over and done sub-5 minutes so I guess I made a short but tasty Hell map. I don't like it too much myself but I think it fits the project well enough.

Casual UV-Speed Demo is packed with the map.

 

naza_infernew.zip (10.07.2018)

naza_infernew_v2.zip (13.07.2018.)

naza_infernew_v4.zip (07.08.2018.)

naza_infernew_v5.zip (09.08.2018.)

 

also @bonnie the exit is a gray teleporter <3

Edited August 9, 2018 by NaZa

[sarge945]

49 minutes ago, NaZa said:

do not pay attention to the sky, it was because I was making the map in Doom format on slot MAP01

 

Map name: Sinner

Most inspired by: Limbo, although there's some Slough of Despair in it too.

Build time: 4 days

Music: Waltz of the Demons

Coop support: Starts only, will add more support in the next update along with new demo in case of desync

DM support: One start only so far, ^^

Description: It's similar to Limbo in the sense that it has blood, a low amount of monsters and a secret. That's about it. Gameplay was the area where I gave myself more freedom so I made some controversial crusher traps as well as pretty devious pinky traps, but it's all over and done sub-5 minutes so I guess I made a short but tasty Hell map.

Casual UV-Speed Demo is packed with the map.

 

The next update will be in about one or two days. Difficulty setting are in the map, but it's not as polished as it should be. UV-wise and design-wise, I doubt I'll make any more changes.

 

also @bonnie the exit is a gray teleporter <3

 

Neat little map! Felt very fair and balanced, although the Plasma gun is maybe a bit overkill for the enemies guarding it. Maybe a chaingun instead?

 

Also, you have a missing texture on the other side of the first platform that lowers in the starting area (with a demon)

 

Here's my FDA, made in crispy

nazaFDAsarge945.7z

[Darox]

Have another demo: drx-SinnerFDA.zip

Instant pinky walls are pretty rude. I survived so it's not that bad, but the Baron startled me. The sudden kink in the exit to fit the map grid is a little awkward, I'm guessing you changed that quickly and didn't tidy it up. Otherwise it looks good.

 

I do appreciate how many maps contain a secret BFG.

 

 

5 hours ago, sarge945 said:

I thought I played on UV. whoops!

Unless you add -skill # to your command line it usually defaults to HMP. You also seem to have auto-run turned off which is probably making things harder on you.

[HAK3180]

@bonnie, I suggest you edit the OP. It seems to me that the stated expectations are now much more specific than the original "short and simple" and "inspired by Inferno in some way."

 

But just for fun, here's my new exit:

Spoiler

 

[NaZa]

55 minutes ago, sarge945 said:

 

Neat little map! Felt very fair and balanced, although the Plasma gun is maybe a bit overkill for the enemies guarding it. Maybe a chaingun instead?

 

Also, you have a missing texture on the other side of the first platform that lowers in the starting area (with a demon)

 

Here's my FDA, made in crispy

nazaFDAsarge945.7z

Thanks for the heads up, I never checked behind the marbfaces so I didn't know. As for the plasma gun, it's to make quick work of the enemies as well as for carryovers, but I'll rethink about it.

 

12 minutes ago, Darox said:

Have another demo: drx-SinnerFDA.zip

Instant pinky walls are pretty rude. I survived so it's not that bad, but the Baron startled me. The sudden kink in the exit to fit the map grid is a little awkward, I'm guessing you changed that quickly and didn't tidy it up. Otherwise it looks good.

 

I do appreciate how many maps contain a secret BFG.

 

 

Unless you add -skill # to your command line it usually defaults to HMP. You also seem to have auto-run turned off which is probably making things harder on you.

Yeah, I gave myself liberty when gameplay was concerned, so there's a few perks I've made. That kind is indeed there to fit the map grid, I might make it prettier for the next update. Also, you know there's a secret BFG but didn't find it :o

 

Thank you for your demos too, guys. It makes it much more approachable as for the general audience, and I get to see what a first-time player would do and how would he act, as opposed as to my testing over and over. I'll probably play every finished map too, but later. First off, bugfixing is important.

[Darox]

I originally wanted a GATE exit but it didn't line up nicely on the grid and the demon faces took priority, but every map from E3M1 to E3M7 having one is a compelling argument.

Boom, GATE4 exit.

 

@NaZa Actually I forgot to mention, I think some things could stand to be a little brighter. I didn't realize where the red door was until I ran into it on the way back. Making a tiny band of illumination to light up the skull indicators would be nice.

 

[sarge945]

Since flat alignment sucks, maybe with @bonnie's permission, we can use these? I just threw them together in GIMP in like 3 minutes

 

EDIT: OR NOT! While these work fine in Crispy, I seem to have broken Choccy doom. Maybe someone better at vanilla doom editing than I can figure out what I messed up

 

EDIT EDIT: Works now. I have updated the archive

 

misaligned gate textures for vanilla doom.7z

 

Edited July 10, 2018 by sarge945 : works now

[Aquila Chrysaetos]

@sarge945, did you convert them to flats in the editor? I don't know how Crispy or Chocolate react to PNG images, but that might have caused the issue.

[sarge945]

Just now, Aquila Chrysaetos said:

@sarge945, did you convert them to flats in the editor? I don't know how Crispy or Chocolate react to PNG images, but that might have caused the issue.

They are doom flats, I converted them using SLADE

[Aquila Chrysaetos]

I'll see what I can do on my end, then.

It sounds like you did everything properly and Chocolate Doom just decided, "Nope."

[sarge945]

Just now, Aquila Chrysaetos said:

I'll see what I can do on my end, then.

It sounds like you did everything properly and Chocolate Doom just decided, "Nope."

if I change F_START and F_END to FF_START and FF_END, Choccy doom actually runs but is.....not correct

 

[bonnie]

56 minutes ago, HAK3180 said:

@bonnie, I suggest you edit the OP. It seems to me that the stated expectations are now much more specific than the original "short and simple" and "inspired by Inferno in some way."

I mean it was really always this "specific". It's just that I clarified more on some of the techniques Inferno implored that people were kinda ignoring. You can still easily reach the stated expectations while remaining short and simple. It just seemed like the maps I played were straying further and further from Inferno and becoming generic heck maps.

 

Anyways, I really didn't mean to come off like I was demanding more silver exits, I was just using it as an example. I feel so influential now though ;~;

 

@sarge945 So they're in between the correct markers, but are they 64x64? Are they actually in flat format (they'll be exactly 4kb in slade if they are)? Did you remember to NOT add the flats to PNAMES and TEXTURE1 (never add flats to them, they work right out of the box)? Are you sure they have unique names?

 

@Darox Couldn't you stick two silver teleporters side by side in between where the teleporters are now? I think that should still let them be aligned

[sarge945]

1 minute ago, bonnie said:

 

@sarge945 So they're in between the correct markers, but are they 64x64? Are they actually in flat format (they'll be exactly 4kb in slade if they are)? Did you remember to NOT add the flats to PNAMES and TEXTURE1 (never add flats to them, they work right out of the box)? Are you sure they have unique names?

 

Yes, Yes, Yes and also Yes

 

This is the entire contents of the WAD file

 

[NaZa]

@bonnie In that case, maybe giving written feedback on the maps after playing them about how they could become more Inferno-ish would be good.

[sarge945]

I found an undocumented feature of the doom engine: If F_START is the first lump in your wad, all hell breaks loose. I removed it (it's technically optional) and now it all works. I have updated the original download

 

@bonnie how do you feel about adding these to the infernew textures wad, since people showed interest? It might be a better idea to keep this as a seperate file, so that it can grow if other people want specific misaligned flats, then at the end (if anyone uses it at all) it can get merged in pretty easily

Edited July 10, 2018 by sarge945

[Darox]

22 minutes ago, bonnie said:

@Darox Couldn't you stick two silver teleporters side by side in between where the teleporters are now? I think that should still let them be aligned

 

There's space for them, but I didn't like how it felt with the monster popping in. Doing it this way also fits in a regular teleport back to the hub in case someone doesn't want to end the level for god-knows why.

 

I'm nearly ready to release a second version of my map (with the proper write up and everything) but I'd like to pick your brain about textures and ask which ones you didn't like in the central area.

This is what it currently looks like

Spoiler

Lowered Lift:

Raised Lifts:

Green Altar (I felt the red blended in too much):

 

Also the exit in-game:

 

[Aquila Chrysaetos]

Link removed.

Most inspired by: Pandemonium

Build time: 8-12 hours

Music: Mist Ache from Rise of the Triad

Coop support: Rudimentary (some extra monsters, starts exist)

DM support: Starts and weapons, somewhat optimized for DM in a few locations

Demo: Malebolge-UV-100S-AC (Near UV-max, 98% kills, 100% secrets)

Shots:

Spoiler

 

 

Shots taken in GZDoom 1.8.2

 

Edited August 15, 2018 by Aquila Chrysaetos

[bonnie]

@Darox thank you friend for showing me screenshots while i'm away c:

 

my my only concern is the green alter room. it's really red, so i would suggest either altering a part of the room like the floor or ceiling or something to be not-red or get some light variation in the room (such as darken blood parts, brighten green parts slightly) to add atmosphere and take away from the redness, or a combination of both

 

also this isn't as much an inferno thing but I think the red brick visible on the raised lift (as seen at the bottom of screenshot 2) should have a different texture on it

 

besides those two things i really like the texture choices c:

 

and yes @sarge945, i'll allow the custom aligned teleporters. don't get carried away with other flats just yet though

[Scypek2]

My map was turning out too long and linear, so I just started another one. I'm maybe 50% done? This one should be faster to make.

[jerrysheppy]

All right, I've got a version that I would like people to playtest and offer their feedback on.

 

Let me first say that I recognize some of @bonnie's concerns, especially about length and complexity, could apply to this map.  It ended up being a real odyssey through the infernal realms.  I honestly didn't set out to make a big-dick magnum opus as such, but the map ended up growing as I was putting together the areas I wanted.  Hopefully it still fits the inferno feel in the way that other sprawling (for their day) adventure maps, like Mt. Erebus and Limbo, did.  

 

I stand ready to make any reasonable changes based on feedback, especially with regards to the gameplay (which should be considered extremely rudimentary in its tuning, right now-- it's what I need feedback on the most).  Obviously I'll be less sanguine about people telling me to delete huge chunks of the map, but if you honestly feel that way, please say so nevertheless.

 

Map name: Thoughts of Revelation (latest version in this post )

Most inspired by: House of Pain (E3M4) is probably the single biggest inspiration, but even then I feel it'd be misleading to point too hard to that.  There are a lot of snippets of Inferno's DNA scattered all around, and even my own ideas/outside inspirations that I did my best to apply a Petersen coat of paint to.

Original build time: about one calendar week of working on it a significant amount each days.  couldn't give you an hour figure

Music (if known): ?

Coop support: Player starts.  Should be lockout-proof (one place has a teleporter that opens for this purpose).

DM support: Starts are present.  It probably would play like garbage though.

Description (optional): Long adventure map that visits a variety of weird infernal locales.  I actually hewed very hard to using only Ultimate Doom things; I think the super shotgun is the only exception.  No Doom 2 monsters, no megaspheres.

Demo: none yet

screenshots: in this post

 

Edited July 21, 2018 by jerrysheppy : updated info on coop/dm support

[Walter confetti]

wa-lostsoul.zip

 

- moved the berserk at chainsaw places, the chainsaw now is only available at hard skills

- changed the rocket launcher with a SSG, changed rockets with ammo box and a backpack

- modified a pair of sectors like the starting area of the canyon isn't marked with GATE5 anymore, is just a part of the canyon now and the GATE5 is used at the ending room after blue key door. Also, the same place have a little modifications like exitdoor instead of sw1wood and exitsin is hadded.

- recorded a new UV-Max demo, is in the zip-file.

- also added name tag (wa) on the files