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bonnie

Infernew, a Community Project

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Posted (edited)

Link removed.

This should be the Malebolge link. If a link's wrong, someone tell me. I can't fix it if I don't know about it.

Depending on what bonnie says, I might make it a more traditional map, this one should still be the same vein as the earlier versions with its gimmicks.

Edited by Aquila Chrysaetos

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Cheers for the feedback @Urthar, I've changed the map slightly since that upload, and I did consider some lighting, however the map currently far exceeds the drawseg limit (only while the whole maze lowers) and it's quite close with the visplanes, even though there's only about 30 sectors in the entire map.  I'll have another look at it soon

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Thanks for the feedback @Urthar. I made the main area feel quite open so that's why I had very big doubts about putting better shading at times. I get what you say about contrast, though. The outdoor area was darkened after some people told me the outdoor should be darker, before it was 192 I think.

 

Anyway, 18th or 19th - Sinner v3 will come out with all the new feedback. Thanks guys!

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@Aquila Chrysaetos Yeah, I think that's the version I played. It has the same file size.

 

@NaZa Erebus is 192 outside, Slough is darker at 160 but because it's walls are quite close to player and it uses the white rock texture it feels brighter.

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Am I able to take the secret map? That’s if I finish it though! >:)

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Just now, Sayok6 said:

Am I able to take the secret map? That’s if I finish it though! >:)

PM me your idea and we'll see friend.

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Posted (edited)

Another updated version with a few changes to improve the gameflow (including the long-awaited changes to the tall lift near the start).  Also there are now 4 coop starts and some deathmatch starts too, if anyone hates their lives enough that playing this map in DM sounds like an improvement.

No gameplay balance changes yet.  Still soliciting feedback on whether/where I should place heavier opposition, especially on UV.

 

edit: revised again, removing outdated version

 

Edited by jerrysheppy

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On 7/15/2018 at 3:41 AM, elmle said:

@Pegleg

I played through your level: pathtordelm.zip

Started recording a new demo every time I died(probably 10+ times) and this was the first time I survived it(I was going for a max but I didn't find one secret).

So, it looks good. Personally I'm not a fan of how it plays, feels very claustrophobic and you almost have to kill every monster in order to make any progress.

 

A bug: Is sector 265 supposed to be joined? Because the yellow key has no use if it is.

 

Some texture errors:

Linedef 832 the switch texture is halfway in the floor.

Linedef 1282 is upper and lower unpegged even though its a door so it looks weird when you open it.

 

Some flats that seem wrong:

Sector 140, 283, 290 and 482 have a marble ceiling.

Sector 153, 162 and 287 have the grey rocky(sand?) ceiling.

Sector 397, 379 and 440 have the red crackle ceiling.

 

Thank you for the feedback and for picking up on the errors. Yes, it helps to definitely kill most of the enemies, if for no other reason than the ammo they drop. That wasn't actually my intention, although that is how it ended up. I was rather impressed with your performance on UV; I tried to make it through on that difficulty level (with cheat codes, I made my own level far difficult for me to complete on UV) and often ran out of ammo. Punching pain elementals is not my idea of a good time. I was actually unsure if I should add more ammo to the level.

 

No, those doors are supposed to be two separate sectors. I suppose it happened late in the process and I just didn't catch it. I'll fix them in the next version.

 

Yes, I'll have to fix those textures, which will happen in the next version.

 

I'll take a look at those sectors.

 

I may also replace some of the satyr switch textures that I'm just using as decoration because I think people are mistaking them for switches. Actually, none of the satyr, gargoyle, or lion textures are switches, even though they are actually SW1 and SW2 textures. I was trying to telegraph that in the third room with the SW2SATYR textures acting as torches with the SW1SATYR switches in the dark.

 

Again, thank you for playing and for letting me know what you thought.

 

9 hours ago, Urthar said:

Pathways of the Tortured Dead v1

Could this be anymore Infernal?  The diffculty might be straying into E4 terrority, and I'd be tempted to place a chainsaw at the start since the berzerk pack is hidden, but this is awesome stuff.

 

Thank you for the feedback. I'm glad you enjoyed the level. I was trying to make a difficult level and, as I stated above, succeeded in making a level far above my own skill. I've thought about putting something in that first room, especially since I've complained before about mappers artificially adding difficulty by not giving you armor (specifically, but the rule is general) until very late in the map. In this case, I don't think you have to go too far before you can get armor and you get a shotgun very quickly. As I said above, I wondered about adding more ammo. I've also wondered about adding more health.

 

I did try to put some thought into the progression of weapons as well as what secrets gave you what weapon.

 

I also thought about taking out the block that rises up in the SSG room. I added it to force you to deal with the trap that gets sprung on you. I went back and forth with it and decided to keep it because it doesn't seem to be too crippling; you should have enough firepower to deal with the monsters and they end up infighting and getting in each other's way enough so that it's not as bad as it could be.

 

After watching you and elmle play, it is evident that the chaingun secret is too subtle. I may make that less subtle in the next version.

 

As for the difficulty, I'll leave it to @bonnie to let me know if it fits the vision of the megawad as far as difficulty goes or if it's too much.

 

Thanks for playing. I hope to have the revised version out by the weekend, although, perhaps I should wait for bonnie's feedback before doing so.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, jerrysheppy said:

Another updated version with a few changes to improve the gameflow (including the long-awaited changes to the tall lift near the start).  Also there are now 4 coop starts and some deathmatch starts too, if anyone hates their lives enough that playing this map in DM sounds like an improvement.

No gameplay balance changes yet.  Still soliciting feedback on whether/where I should place heavier opposition, especially on UV.

jl infernew r3.zip

I finally got to the actual end, so either I am getting less stupid, or your map is easier to navigate. Either way, it's a good thing.

 

I got killed by the 2 cyberdemon's though. We may be a little underequipped for them. By the time I got to the fight, I was almost out of both plasma and rockets, and that was with me being (mostly) conservative with them. Maybe a small area should open up just before there (once you open all 3 key switches, on the way back) which has some health, and maybe a soulsphere, but maybe not.

 

I was thinking while playing, because the first red door is around a bend, some players might walk right past it and miss it, thus encouraging them to walk around aimlessly. Maybe putting a red post around the bend could help mitigate that. Here is something I threw together in Doom Builder in 2 minutes as an example.

 

 

red_post.png.62a415fd12ac89ec8e727da3225b429a.png
 

And here's a demo for you:

jlv3FDAsarge945.7z

 

My apologies for the pauses in the demo, my roommate had his gf over and she brought a cool new puppy which I just could not resist patting. Also, if it looks like I got lost before the red door, I was looking around for health/ammo, and testing if it was possible to SR40 across that ledge :P

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On 7/14/2018 at 7:25 PM, Pegleg said:

Here is the first version of my map. I was having trouble adding the D1 textures to the wad file because Chocolate Doom was being finicky and didn't want to run. So, unfortunately, it's only been tested with GZDoom 3.2.5 and PrBoom 2.5.1.2 and ZDoom 2.8.1. I used the Doom 1_infernew textures, but did not need to use the offset flats. I checked the map with Visplane Explorer and the map should be vanilla compatible.

 

Map Name: Pathways of the Tortured Dead (version 1)

Most Inspired By: Pandemonium and House of Pain

Build Time: 50 - 60 hours spread over 11 or 12 days

Music: "Deep into the Code" from E3M3

Co-op Support: Starts only

DM Support: Starts only

Description: The map is about the size of Pandemonium and has two areas that are optional (one more optional than the other, in my opinion) and several secrets. Some of the secrets are more obvious than others, but they're all at least hinted at. The map can be maxed (I checked with IDDQD and I ended up with 100%-99%-100%).

Demo: <none at the moment>

 

Please let me know what you think. I plan to update any issues that anyone finds (or that I find) over the next few days and release version 2 in the next week or so.

 

The map is geared toward single player at the moment. If anyone has any suggestions for changes to make in support of co-op and deathmatch, please let me know.

 

Some screenshots (obviously, the sky is not the proper sky):

pathtord_v1_03.png.eb9a1a9cdeb77140e70338a6e27acda6.pngpathtord_v1_02.png.7648323bb523ff93e30d5ed985aea60a.pngpathtord_v1_01.png.244ea870dd9760380f739021fdc7322c.png

 

Overall a hard map, which I couldn't finish. The supershotgun trap kept killing me. I like the visual style though. I would have a demo but my Crispy doom is acting funny (doesn't remember my crispiness settings, and now I can't find the demo that I made for this map)

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Urthar said:

Sacrilege v3b

This is good map, but it feels more like an modern hell map, rather than Inferno. (I'm not sure if there's anything wrong with that as such, since my own map probably strays as well.) Personnally, I would be tempted to replace some of the small detailing with bolder stokes and simplify the exterior area to make it feel more enclosed by deleting some of the distance cliffs.

 

A lot of those wall details are inspired by the various wall detailings in Unholy Cathedral, although I admit it's not quite the same. I am somewhat concerned about those Inferno-esque requirements especially regarding optional areas and finales; the shortest path for reaching the exit still sees ~95% of the map & enemies. One thing I have considered was letting you skip the barriers in the E/W teleport rooms if you have the red key, but seeing 'You need the red key to open this door' when they bump that wall might give players the wrong impression.

 

Thanks for the demo, and I just knew as soon as I changed how the imp/vile ambush started that someone would step off the elevator and end up meeting a wall of imps crowding the entrance, which ruins the "go wild with the rocket launcher" strategy that I'm aiming for. Time to go back to the drawing board and try to make it more robust.

 

 

Here's a FDA for your map as well: drx-Urthar-FDA.zip

I enjoyed it, the path to reach the bridge switch had a nice progression. I don't generally like dark maps but the lighting effects were nice here. The switch exit felt a little weird though. The red key ambush was nasty but I survived it so it's not really a sticking point.

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@sarge945

If you were to test my not-a-meme map I would appreciate it!

 

On 7/13/2018 at 8:10 AM, elmle said:

Place of Torment: infernelm.zip

Inspired by: Limbo

Build time: 3 days?

Music: E2M5

Coop support: Extra monsters and ammo.

DM Support: Starts only

Max demo: infernelm859.zip

Screenshot:

  Reveal hidden contents

PoT.png.cadf8ad81674ba07cfbd78179f0dc85b.png

 

 

@Garbage

I gave your map a go: bloodcascdemos.zip

Neat little map, I died once or twice before finishing it.

Found it strange that you could just exit without ever seeing the yellow key, I later looked a what was behind the yellow door and the rewards don't seem appropriate for such a detour. Maybe put a blue armor in there so you get something for your troubles(thinking continuosly here).

 

Texture errors/bugs:

The red walls after you leave the starting room are misaligned.

The textures of sector 48 and 34 are misaligned.

Linedef 215 and 308 are misaligned.

When you first get to the blood area the ashwalls can disappear into the skybox.

Sector 162 doesn't raise properly.

It seems weird that sector 110 has a metal ceiling.

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Thanks for playing, @elmle! I'll look into those misalignments, errors, and the yellow key area. 

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10 hours ago, sarge945 said:

 

Overall a hard map, which I couldn't finish. The supershotgun trap kept killing me. I like the visual style though. I would have a demo but my Crispy doom is acting funny (doesn't remember my crispiness settings, and now I can't find the demo that I made for this map)

 

Thanks for trying out the map and letting me know what you thought.

 

Was it hard, but still enjoyable? Or did you find the difficulty frustrating and/or unfair? What difficulty were you at?

 

I keep going back and forth as to whether I should change something about the approach of the SSG trap. I'll ponder it some more before I release the next version.

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Posted (edited)

Second half of the FDAs. PrBoom+ complevel 2 skill 3. UrthInfernewV02.zip

 

(All demos recorded with d1gfxd2_infernew.wad)

 

Thoughts of Revelation r3

A sprawling chaos those progression could potentionally cause frustration. (There's one lift in particular that desperately needs a switch texture, which should be evident in the demo.) It's the sort of map that still feels like a early draft, rather than a finished level. If this were id software, I'd take it off Tom Hall and give it to Sandy Peterson, because there's such an abundance of ideas in this map, that it's worth cleaning up by a second mapper who can look at it with a fresh perspective.

Overall the map feels slightly more E2 than E3, perhaps due to size more than anything else, but there's certainly enough of Inferno's DNA in there.

 

Church of Satan v2

Not quite slaughter, but more intense than the horde combat you would run across in Doom2. Perhaps an Inferno slaughter of sorts, that might not feel out of place in Scythe's 3rd episode. It's not for me to say whether this belongs in Infernew or not, but I quite like it. It feels like the sort of map that would be fun to speedrun, and to that end I would suggest giving the backpack to the player right at the start, and throwing in a generous scattering of stimpacks, etc to encourage run-and-gun play.

 

Fortress of Despair

Very cool, very Inferno. A perfect map.

 

Esoteric Entity
(Probably should mention that this is slot 21 in the post.)

Interesting... and certainly unexpected. While I completed the map in my first attempt, and that's definitely a FDA, I can't help but think I may have missed something here, some subtlety perhaps, that I overlooked.

 

Uncanny Village
(Another slot 21?)

A major sequence break seems to render the map incompletable, otherwise pretty good.

 

The Carcass

I like this map, I think it's creative and cool, but I'm not sure it's an Inferno map. It feels more like something Mouldy might have made in Going Down. Also there appears to be a fairly nasty invisible wall bug in there.

Since this is such an organic map, I would personnally smooth out the jagged edges and make everything curvy. You look fine for drawsegs, and I imagine if you simplied the exit bars, or moved them around a corner, your visplanes wouldn't be a problem either. Additionally, it might be worth reorientating the map with regard to the ending. Explosion effects are hard coded to appear 320 units south from Romero's head at heights between 128 and 640 units.

 

Place of Torment

Well, it's definitely an Inferno map, very much in the style of Limbo. I had a problem with progression, but that often happens to me on Limbo anyway, so it seems fairly authentic in that regard too. There was probably something down in the maze I missed.

Normally I tend to fall off platfroming sections, but surprisingly I managed the ones here first time, and only stumbled on a couple of easy jumps. Overall this map seemed pretty good, and I appreciate a bit of chainsaw action.

 

Well that's HMP done, I'll probably revisit everything in UV later in the month.

Edited by Urthar

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15 hours ago, sarge945 said:

I finally got to the actual end, so either I am getting less stupid, or your map is easier to navigate. Either way, it's a good thing.

 

I got killed by the 2 cyberdemon's though. We may be a little underequipped for them. By the time I got to the fight, I was almost out of both plasma and rockets, and that was with me being (mostly) conservative with them. Maybe a small area should open up just before there (once you open all 3 key switches, on the way back) which has some health, and maybe a soulsphere, but maybe not.

 

I was thinking while playing, because the first red door is around a bend, some players might walk right past it and miss it, thus encouraging them to walk around aimlessly. Maybe putting a red post around the bend could help mitigate that. Here is something I threw together in Doom Builder in 2 minutes as an example.

 

 

red_post.png.62a415fd12ac89ec8e727da3225b429a.png
 

And here's a demo for you:

jlv3FDAsarge945.7z

 

My apologies for the pauses in the demo, my roommate had his gf over and she brought a cool new puppy which I just could not resist patting. Also, if it looks like I got lost before the red door, I was looking around for health/ammo, and testing if it was possible to SR40 across that ledge :P

 

This demo desyncs too and this time I honestly have no idea why, as I know I haven't touched v3 since I posted it.

 

I will definitely take your suggestion about the red skull indicators though I'll probably do something more like the yellow key door, with some red skulls on the upper sidedef at the tunnel entrance.

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40 minutes ago, Urthar said:

Esoteric Entity
(Probably should mention that this is slot 21 in the post.)

Interesting... and certainly unexpected. While I completed the map in my first attempt, and that's definitely a FDA, I can't help but think I may have missed something here, some subtlety perhaps, that I overlooked.

 

Heh yeah, you overlooked essentially the whole thing; the sky in the center of the starting room is a teleporter which warps you off to the actual map. I made it entirely avoidable for a reason though, which should become obvious if you attempt it :P

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Urthar said:

 

 

Thoughts of Revelation r3

A sprawling chaos those progression could potentionally cause frustration. (There's one lift in particular that desperately needs a switch texture, which should be evident in the demo.) It's the sort of map that still feels like a early draft, rather than a finished level. If this were id software, I'd take it off Tom Hall and give it to Sandy Peterson, because there's such an abundance of ideas in this map, that it's worth cleaning up by a second mapper who can look at it with a fresh perspective.

Overall the map feels slightly more E2 than E3, perhaps due to size more than anything else, but there's certainly enough of Inferno's DNA in there.

 

 

Ouch.  I'm sorry that was such a frustrating experience for you, and I thank you for persevering.

 

It's funny that many of my other playtesters have gotten lost in various ways (albeit mostly in earlier drafts of the map) but none of them had any problems finding that lift.  Please don't take this in a mean way, or anything, but I was honestly flabbergasted by how many approaches apparently made more sense to you than simply walking into that alcove, which I'd thought was fairly well telegraphed as a lift via the floor texture.  But I can try to change it over to be switch-activated from the top as well as from the bottom (it's currently a WR from the top, which is obviously why there's no switch texture) if that's a potential point of confusion, and it seems like it is.

 

edit: Based on your demo, I'm also pretty sure I'm going to make it impossible to straferun and skip the first red key door.  An obscure, unintended skip for those in the know is definitely in the spirit of the original id maps, but in 2018 it seems like strafing across a gap is many people's first attempt at a solution, which I think goes against that spirit.  I may, however, put in a similar skip opportunity as a bona fide secret-- not sure.

Edited by jerrysheppy

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Posted (edited)

I've left the project.

Edited by HAK3180 : Leaving the project.

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9 hours ago, Urthar said:

Place of Torment

Well, it's definitely an Inferno map, very much in the style of Limbo. I had a problem with progression, but that often happens to me on Limbo anyway, so it seems fairly authentic in that regard too. There was probably something down in the maze I missed.

Normally I tend to fall off platfroming sections, but surprisingly I managed the ones here first time, and only stumbled on a couple of easy jumps. Overall this map seemed pretty good, and I appreciate a bit of chainsaw action.

 

You actually did everything correctly, except I believe you forgot where the red switch was since you tried pressing it before you had the key but then never returned to it.

Spoiler

Its kinda in plain sight, the eye switch in the outside area.

After you pick up the red key you are real close to finishing it, maybe next time.

Thanks for playing!

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22 hours ago, elmle said:

@sarge945

If you were to test my not-a-meme map I would appreciate it!

 

I am visiting my cousin for a couple of days, but if you remind me in 1-2 days, I will test it for you

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New version of Sacrilege, this version should be final barring any issues.

drx-Sacrilegev4.zip

 

The imp/vile ambush now works like it should have done all along, the exit got changed a little bit, and if you haven't already opened the lion/satyr walls you can now do so in the red key zone.

 

---

 

I also played through @HAK3180 & @elmle 's levels.

drx-HAK-FDA.zip

The Arachnotron at the start is a little too bulky and harmless, but the opening lava field is the section I enjoyed most and works great with just the shotgun/rocket launcher. The Hell Knight ambush is really rough; six knights and a baron in a tight spot is difficult by itself but there's also a couple things and sharp edges in the room to get caught on. I'd like it a lot better if there wasn't the risk of getting snagged on things and ending up trapped in a corner. Or just a number of knights lower than six.

 

Minor issues: The skinwall to the right of the exit is misaligned and there is an extra sector tagged as secret that you can't stand on in the dark room secret.

 

drx-Elm-Demo.zip

Not a FDA since I played the previous version, though I can say from that first attempt that if you go left and miss the chainsaw the start is extra rough; there's a lot of cacodemons wandering at the start and not a lot of ammo for them. I think the shootable switch could use something to make it more attention grabbing and probably the red-key chambers that open up as well, especially the more remote one with the teleporter. Otherwise I liked it a lot and it definitely felt very Inferno.

 

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Yet another set of geometry/sector revisions:

 

Spoiler
  • Rather than just try to make the lift more obvious, I decided to go in another direction altogether.  I never really liked that lift, as it felt weird to step from a major series of hallways into this tiny broomcloset lift that unceremoniously dropped you down to a new area.  However, I didn't feel like I had the space for a bigger or otherwise more interesting lift.
    • So, I've tried killing two birds with one stone by canning the lift altogether and replacing it with a stairway behind a door.  It's still cramped, but hopefully feels a bit more interesting.  The door hopefully says "c'mere and explore me!" in a way that the former lift alcove didn't, at least not for everyone.  I decorated it a bit to make it even more apparent to passersby.
  • The lift from the white canyon area back upstairs to the brown hallways has been changed from a slow automatic lift to a regular switch-operated lift.  I was eliminating/improving all the slow lifts in the level, so it made sense to try and look for an alternative to this one also.  The only remaining slow lifts are the ones in the red key canyon, and those will stay since they have a specific gimmick.
  • I added a dark arrow that appears to make the shortcut more obvious after you pass beyond the red key door and flip the switch there.  I also changed the arrow outside the yellow key door to a light change as well, like before but this time it's a dark arrow (light 35) instead of a bright arrow (light 255).  This should ensure it stands out against the neighboring light 192 sector.
  • As I mentioned, I increased the gap that people were SR-jumping across.  It should now be just about impossible for a casual player to SR40 across it.  A dedicated speedrunner could SR50 across it, I imagine, but that's not a problem.

 

Hopefully the level is approaching its final state geometry-wise.  Feedback on the difficulty level (preferably with specific ideas about what you might do to make, say, UV properly difficult) is still needed.  Note that I didn't change monsters/items at all in this build so if you have feedback in mind from r3, it's still applicable!

jl infernew r4.zip

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So I guess the exit from the first area of my map is not, like, extremely obvious. I want everyone to be able to complete the map, but I really don't want to make the design any less mysterious, so here's my latest version, featuring rubber band difficulty of sorts: if the player ends up humping non-interactive scenery seven times, arrows will show up on the floor. Also I fixed one wrong texture.

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Posted (edited)

Infernal Return 

UPDATED to V2: https://www.dropbox.com/s/1sr0ehw88z9hcfx/bigolbilly-infernal_return_v2.wad?dl=1

OLD: https://www.dropbox.com/s/x4s45yq4w3g2ufw/infernal return v1.wad?dl=0

 

Most inspired by: Warrens, conceptually

Build time: 20 hours plus a few more learning about visplanes, medusas, tutti-frutti....

Music (if known): "Kvlt Classic" by me, written for this map

Coop support: limited

DM support: not yet

Description: Hell really doesn't make any sense...

 

Screens:

ir1.jpg.6d7d8b99efb171d1d32f815f9b6aa80c.jpg

 

More:

Spoiler

 

ir2.jpg.23e3eb60fde83f78fc552c1327ad7a2f.jpg

ir8.jpg.fda4e4d71444ad3d04d15755a678e55b.jpgir7.jpg.3f90cc55a70f62b45d14bb8eaf20ef77.jpgir6.jpg.7b81c4285a84a8f40d7f71334f3500bc.jpgir5.jpg.23186b7103366434ea406650a6bc9116.jpgir4.jpg.bad9b58613ac771db6094c7e578dc5da.jpgir3.jpg.bed8d288e80581680a969e61b20726e9.jpgir9.jpg.9c1af15f936dca3c4bb0bdb5a8b34c05.jpg

 

 

 

Wanna hold off on demo recording to get some feedback if that's ok

Edited by Big Ol Billy

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Posted (edited)

Map updated, secrets added and difficulty levels implemented.

 

Edited by Urthar

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Sorry I haven't been playing other people's levels much, by the way.  I've had PoE and REKKR also competing for my gaming time, but I'll try to get back to this at some point soon.

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Just wondering, how do reserves work? Are they like substitution maps for later empty slots?

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