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bonnie

Infernew, a Community Project

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15 hours ago, sarge945 said:

This is far from finished, but since it's my first "real" map, I was wondering if I am on the right track? Obviously there is too much red, but any other constructive or destructive criticism would be welcome. This is based on E3M1 as my design inspiration

 

early_test.7z

 

My first playthrough I didn't hit both walk triggers in the red key room at the same time because I was advancing slowly against the Mancubus & Imps. A lot of people probably won't notice it but if you want the player to hit multiple walk triggers at once you should encourage them to move boldly. Hiding the Mancs behind a wall that also gets opened up and putting a trail of health bonuses across the lines would go a long way. Players will follow health bonuses to the end of the world and waiting to reveal the Mancs would also make the Barons spawning in behind you more threatening.

 

Other things:

- The Revenants in the yellow key room should have Ambush flagged instead of sound blocking lines surrounding them. Ambush monsters who have heard something are still silent but have 360 view so you can't run behind them while the boxes are lowering and have them not notice you.

- You don't need a tiny corridor leading from a room to your teleport chambers to carry sound. If you join two sectors together into one any sound that reaches the sector will fill the sector entirely even if the two halves are completely separated, so you can use it to carry sound across any gap.

- The bars to lock you into the first room don't have any triggers (the lines are tagged but have no effect) and the switch revealed on your way out just opens the door you can open regularly.

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, jerrysheppy said:

 

-I don't think there's too much red, though of course you have plenty of options to break it up if you think there's too much.

 

-The soul sphere secret was dead easy to find but would probably have been just right for 1993, so don't feel you have to change it.

 

-For the most part, the architecture is very nice; visually interesting in a quality 1993-4 sort of way, which is exactly what we should be going for here.  I will say though that the hallway after the yellow key door, up until we open the area to the red key, is pretty visually plain and flat even by such standards.  There are a lot of things you could add to make this hallway and the switch rooms a bit more interesting-- alcoves with hanging bodies, fire or tortured faces behind grates, etc.

 

-Since you're making use of Doom 2 things anyway, I'd give the player an SSG somewhere around the yellow door.  The cacodemons in particular are tedious to fight with a single shotgun and too dangerous to fight with the rocket launcher (and I was out of bullets).  In general, if Doom 2 resources are being used and the player is fighting any significant numbers of "2+ rocket" (Revenant/cacodemon) and up enemies, the player should have an SSG.  IMO anyway.

 

-Gameplay was fun and balanced for me.  That Arch-Vile was a shock, but not an unfair one.  The one thing I would say is that if this is actually meant to be a very  early map (as the Hell Keep reference indicates, and as you seem to be going for with the short length) the difficulty would probably be a bit too much of a spike.  Even in 2018, I'm happy not to encounter Arch-Viles or Baron ambushes before MAP05-06 or so.  Of course, nothing stopping you from taking the Hell Keep inspiration and making it into a more medium-length map. 

 

All in all, good 

 

8 hours ago, Darox said:

 

My first playthrough I didn't hit both walk triggers in the red key room at the same time because I was advancing slowly against the Mancubus & Imps. A lot of people probably won't notice it but if you want the player to hit multiple walk triggers at once you should encourage them to move boldly. Hiding the Mancs behind a wall that also gets opened up and putting a trail of health bonuses across the lines would go a long way. Players will follow health bonuses to the end of the world and waiting to reveal the Mancs would also make the Barons spawning in behind you more threatening.

 

Other things:

- The Revenants in the yellow key room should have Ambush flagged instead of sound blocking lines surrounding them. Ambush monsters who have heard something are still silent but have 360 view so you can't run behind them while the boxes are lowering and have them not notice you.

- You don't need a tiny corridor leading from a room to your teleport chambers to carry sound. If you join two sectors together into one any sound that reaches the sector will fill the sector entirely even if the two halves are completely separated, so you can use it to carry sound across any gap.

- The bars to lock you into the first room don't have any triggers (the lines are tagged but have no effect) and the switch revealed on your way out just opens the door you can open regularly.

 

Thank you guys so much for the feedback!!!

 

I have taken all of this to heart - and changed the map accordingly. Thank you so much for the helpful feedback. The baron fight area especially has been given a facelift.

 

As for the trap with no activator, yeah I removed that because I couldn't get it to work in a way that I was happy with - and I left the switch on the way back. I thought it was a bit unfair to get ambushed by pinkies so early on with just a shotgun.

 

Lastly, you can get the SSG before the yellow key door, but it's in a secret. Maybe it should be not in a secret?

 

Thanks for the sound trick - I will implement that.

Edited by sarge945

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Posted (edited)

The texture pack, even though it does indeed contain textures from UDoom, also contains textures exclusive to Doom II, like the BIGBRIK, ASHWALL and PANEL textures. Are we free to use those too?

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NaZa's question makes me realize I've been assuming we are free to use Doom 2 textures and Doom 1 textures. Is that not the case?

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I'm doing my map in UDoom format to avoid using D2 textures. But yes, on the bottom of the first page, bonnie said 'only d1 textures' so I assume. 

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1 hour ago, NaZa said:

I'm doing my map in UDoom format to avoid using D2 textures. But yes, on the bottom of the first page, bonnie said 'only d1 textures' so I assume. 

That was in response to a request to use cc4, so perhaps "only d1 textures" means "only that texture pack is allowed to be added [to Doom 2 textures]." Originally this was going to be only Doom 2 textures, and the first post to change that, as far as I can tell, said that Doom 1 textures are now allowed

 

@bonnie, please clarify.

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1 minute ago, HAK3180 said:

That was in response to a request to use cc4, so perhaps "only d1 textures" means "only that texture pack is allowed to be added [to Doom 2 textures]." Originally this was going to be only Doom 2 textures, and the first post to change that, as far as I can tell, said that Doom 1 textures are now allowed

 

@bonnie, please clarify.

@bonnie

 

In addition to Doom 2-specific textures, there are Doom 2-specific sprites. I would like confirm that these Doom 2-specific sprites are also allowed.

 

You've already mentioned using the SSG and the new monsters in the Doom 2 bestiary, but you did say to be careful not to go overboard because you could dilute the "Inferno" feel of the maps.

 

So, please clarify, so we can put these questions to bed.

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3 hours ago, Pegleg said:

@bonnie

 

In addition to Doom 2-specific textures, there are Doom 2-specific sprites. I would like confirm that these Doom 2-specific sprites are also allowed.

 

You've already mentioned using the SSG and the new monsters in the Doom 2 bestiary, but you did say to be careful not to go overboard because you could dilute the "Inferno" feel of the maps.

 

So, please clarify, so we can put these questions to bed.

 

If we're allowed to use the extended beastiary/armory of Doom 2, I'd imagine we're allowed to use textures from Doom 2 as well.

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2 minutes ago, MFG38 said:

If we're allowed to use the extended beastiary/armory of Doom 2, I'd imagine we're allowed to use textures from Doom 2 as well.

 

I would expect so, especially since @bonnie said in the OP, "It'll be in Doom 2." But since we're getting official clarification regarding Doom 2-only textures, we may as well get official clarification on Doom 2-only sprites.

 

Also, bonnie said "Be careful though!! Too many Doom II enemies and such may start to pollute the Episode 3-vibe" which would extend to textures and sprites also.

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I'm claiming map31, I have a pretty fun E3 idea for it.

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neIPQqv.jpg

Structure is complete and testing is underway. Here's an automap view.

I'm going to supply a no-secrets demo, but that's probably going to take a couple tries given the nature of a no-secret run being that I have to 'zerk some barons, because I didn't put enough ammo down to kill them without the secret weapons.

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@bonnie, I'd like to do something unique for Malebolge's difficulty settings, if you'd allow it. I'd like to alter the difficulties such that each one provides a different playstyle and, hopefully, challenge, from the others.

Of course, if allowed, I would provide a demo for each difficulty setting.

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The project looks amazing, but I don't map, so I can only support the project by my spirit (?). Can I enroll as a tester or something.

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15 minutes ago, Aquila Chrysaetos said:

@bonnie, I'd like to do something unique for Malebolge's difficulty settings, if you'd allow it. I'd like to alter the difficulties such that each one provides a different playstyle and, hopefully, challenge, from the others.

Of course, if allowed, I would provide a demo for each difficulty setting.

Was thinking the same as my map will probably feature skill-specific skull key locations. 

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Posted (edited)

Malebolge, UV version, is complete now. Coop starts are there, but multiplayer is not implemented yet.

Difficulties are not implemented yet, hence my stating it's the UV version.

Malebolge-UV.

 

A demo recorded for it. It is not a max run, contrary to what I wanted, but I did survive and it is a no secrets run.

Malebolge-UV demo.

Crispy Doom 5.2, MAP01, skill 4.

Loaded without the resource wad because I'm an idiot. The only problem you'll see is some missing textures in the room to get the red skull.

 

Music hasn't been added yet, so you'll have to suffer Runnin' From Evil.

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Posted (edited)

Hi, here's a map I just spent a few days on, built while frustrated and annoyed with various things. As a result the map is not your typical "Doom experience" and involves some decently heavy outside-the-box thinking and techniques.

 

Name: Esoteric Entity

Inspired by: General E3 theme

Build time: Four days

Music: "Ionian Isolation" by Tristan Clark (Eris Falling)

Co-op support: Starts only

DM support: No

Demo: Not yet*

 

Screenshots:

Spoiler

av5dL22.png

AQUhZ5n.png

 

It probably works best in a secret slot due to its nature, though the map is entirely avoidable if you choose so really it can fit wherever, provided a pistol start is enforced. Bonus points if you know of the album I named this map after.

 

Edited by AD_79

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16 hours ago, sarge945 said:

 

 

Lastly, you can get the SSG before the yellow key door, but it's in a secret. Maybe it should be not in a secret?

 

 

Yeah, philosophies can vary, but in my book the core quality-of-life weapons should always be given to the player in non-secret areas by the time they need them.

 

What qualifies as a quality-of-life weapon can vary, of course.  For instance, if the player so far in the map/mapset has only encountered things like Demons and maybe one or two Cacodemons and HKs, they might use an SSG if they had one, but they aren't going to be miserable if they only have a single shotgun.  So I don't consider it a huge issue for them to have a non-secret SSG at that point.

 

But if they're starting to encounter 3+ cacodemons in tense fights, or if they're fighting mancubi or arachnotrons?  Then the potential lack of the SSG as an option starts to become a quality of life issue.

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I started mine today. I'm having issues importing textures into my level. I just copy everything from the texture wad into the level wad yet the only thing to show up is CONS1_9.

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Just now, Aquila Chrysaetos said:

You did copy over the PNAMES and TEXTURE1 lump, too, right?

Yeah I copied everything over.

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What version of the resource wad are you using? The one I provided, that is, the fixed one, works for sure.

I've got it merged with my current copy of my map and GZDB recognizes its textures.

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42 minutes ago, Classicgamer6 said:

I started mine today. I'm having issues importing textures into my level. I just copy everything from the texture wad into the level wad yet the only thing to show up is CONS1_9.


Uh, for the record, I'm pretty sure you don't need or even want to do that.  Just start Doombuilder or whatever and add the texture wad as a resource for editing your map.

 

I'm assuming that Bonnie will include all the textures in the megawad when it gets compiled, so individual people don't need to merge them into their maps.  (And for testing, people can include the resource file in their launcher of choice.)

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This is a very early editor screenshot of my level. I'm calling it Morte based off of the Planescape Torment character and because this first room is a skull. Basing it off of Pandemonium.

morte.jpg

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Extremely early start of Map31 called "Warrens-Grosse Effect"

 

 

Clipboard01.jpg

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