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bonnie

(Private alphas in progress) Infernew, a Community Project

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4 hours ago, jerrysheppy said:

All right, I've got a version that I would like people to playtest and offer their feedback on.

 

Let me first say that I recognize some of @bonnie's concerns, especially about length and complexity, could apply to this map.  It ended up being a real odyssey through the infernal realms.  I honestly didn't set out to make a big-dick magnum opus as such, but the map ended up growing as I was putting together the areas I wanted.  Hopefully it still fits the inferno feel in the way that other sprawling (for their day) adventure maps, like Mt. Erebus and Limbo, did.  

 

I stand ready to make any reasonable changes based on feedback, especially with regards to the gameplay (which should be considered extremely rudimentary in its tuning, right now-- it's what I need feedback on the most).  Obviously I'll be less sanguine about people telling me to delete huge chunks of the map, but if you honestly feel that way, please say so nevertheless.

 

Map name: Thoughts of Revelation (attached at the bottom)

Most inspired by: House of Pain (E3M4) is probably the single biggest inspiration, but even then I feel it'd be misleading to point too hard to that.  There are a lot of snippets of Inferno's DNA scattered all around, and even my own ideas/outside inspirations that I did my best to apply a Petersen coat of paint to.

Build time: about one calendar week of working on it a significant amount each days.  couldn't give you an hour figure

Music (if known): ?

Coop support: None yet; I will add player 2-4 starts before final release

DM support: None yet; I will add starts before final release

Description (optional): Long adventure map that visits a variety of weird infernal locales.  I actually hewed very hard to using only Ultimate Doom things; I think the super shotgun is the only exception.  No Doom 2 monsters, no megaspheres.

Demo: none yet

screenshots: in this post

jl infernew testing.zip

I died (hopefully) near the end, and then quit out. I found the map extremely confusing. The architecture looks cool and I like the variance in design, it keeps it from getting boring, but the fact that I had no idea where to go ~80% of the time killed the fun for me. I don't know how much of that is down to map design and how much is down to me being an idiot. Other than that, this is a pretty cool map, pretty well balanced, with nice area designs. I especially like the switches room.

 

jlFDAsarge945.7z

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11 minutes ago, sarge945 said:

I died (hopefully) near the end, and then quit out. I found the map extremely confusing. The architecture looks cool and I like the variance in design, it keeps it from getting boring, but the fact that I had no idea where to go ~80% of the time killed the fun for me. I don't know how much of that is down to map design and how much is down to me being an idiot. Other than that, this is a pretty cool map, pretty well balanced, with nice area designs. I especially like the switches room.

 

jlFDAsarge945.7z

Thank you much for the demo, i'll watch it in a short while and see if I can't figure out how to make it clearer where to go.  In my mind it was pretty clear, but you're not me and you can't read my mind, heh.

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15 minutes ago, jerrysheppy said:

Thank you much for the demo, i'll watch it in a short while and see if I can't figure out how to make it clearer where to go.  In my mind it was pretty clear, but you're not me and you can't read my mind, heh.

I think the main thing is that there are generally multiple doors of each colour, and it can be hard to keep track of where they all are. It's hard enough remembering 1 blue, 1 red and 1 yellow door.

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36 minutes ago, sarge945 said:

I think the main thing is that there are generally multiple doors of each colour, and it can be hard to keep track of where they all are. It's hard enough remembering 1 blue, 1 red and 1 yellow door.

 

OK, yeah, I see where you weren't quite sure what to do with the yellow key, for example.  I'd like others to weigh in on this, but as a mapper I made sure to send you past both of the key doors (one of which is effectively a key switch and will only be relevant at the very end of the level-- not that it does anything worse than take up a bit of extra time if you hit it early) before I gave you the key, and I guess I'm just not sure what to do if that's too much for the player to remember. :X

 

Watching this demo, I made note of the couple places where you seemed to be off on the wrong track-- tell me if I'm wrong... (spoilers to let other people playtest the level unspoiled)

 

Spoiler

After flipping the second switch in the multi-tiered pillar room (the one that lowers the yellow key) you jumped down into the lava rather than just retracing your path out.  That seemed to leave you searching for a while. If you leave the area the way you came in, you see the can't-miss-it area that also opened up and gives a teleport straight to the yellow key area.  I'd assumed the lava would be read as a hazard to be avoided rather than a shortcut, but maybe I should just put midbars around the snakeskin promontories and prevent the player from getting lost if they do take a tumble?

 

As mentioned you seemed to stand/wander around in confusion for some time after getting the yellow key.  As a mapper I'm not sure how to solve this problem given that I already walked you past both possible ways you could use it.  You did eventually remember/stumble back into them both, of course.

 

One thought-- maybe it would help to seal off the three keyed switches after the player visits them for the first time, until they wander back around to them through the blue door?  That would prevent the player from wasting time going back to use them immediately, when they (effectively) don't do anything until the player's hit all three.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You say you felt the overall balance was pretty good?  You did die eventually, of course, and you'd run out of armor by that point, but on the other hand, it is Ultra-Violence.  You also seemed to have an excess of shells and bullets by the end, but I'm not sure that's a problem.  Do you feel the trap you died to was unfair, or is it the sort of thing you'd accept as a reload moment in a blind playthrough?

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4 minutes ago, jerrysheppy said:

 

OK, yeah, I see where you weren't quite sure what to do with the yellow key, for example.  I'd like others to weigh in on this, but as a mapper I made sure to send you past both of the key doors (one of which is effectively a key switch and will only be relevant at the very end of the level-- not that it does anything worse than take up a bit of extra time if you hit it early) before I gave you the key, and I guess I'm just not sure what to do if that's too much for the player to remember. :X

 

Watching this demo, I made note of the couple places where you seemed to be off on the wrong track-- tell me if I'm wrong... (spoilers to let other people playtest the level unspoiled)

 

  Hide contents

After flipping the second switch in the multi-tiered pillar room (the one that lowers the yellow key) you jumped down into the lava rather than just retracing your path out.  That seemed to leave you searching for a while. If you leave the area the way you came in, you see the can't-miss-it area that also opened up and gives a teleport straight to the yellow key area.  I'd assumed the lava would be read as a hazard to be avoided rather than a shortcut, but maybe I should just put midbars around the snakeskin promontories and prevent the player from getting lost if they do take a tumble?

 

As mentioned you seemed to stand/wander around in confusion for some time after getting the yellow key.  As a mapper I'm not sure how to solve this problem given that I already walked you past both possible ways you could use it.  You did eventually remember/stumble back into them both, of course.

 

One thought-- maybe it would help to seal off the three keyed switches after the player visits them for the first time, until they wander back around to them through the blue door?  That would prevent the player from wasting time going back to use them immediately, when they (effectively) don't do anything until the player's hit all three.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You say you felt the overall balance was pretty good?  You did die eventually, of course, and you'd run out of armor by that point, but on the other hand, it is Ultra-Violence.  You also seemed to have an excess of shells and bullets by the end, but I'm not sure that's a problem.  Do you feel the trap you died to was unfair, or is it the sort of thing you'd accept as a reload moment in a blind playthrough?

Blocking off the switches might be a good idea tbh.

 

The trap was mostly fair. I got screwed by getting stuck on the platform, which was my own fault.

 

And yeah there was just enough ammo before the end bit, so all was fine.

 

I can't remember, but I may have fallen in the lava on accident, or I may have heard a platform that sounded like it was coming from down there? I can't remember.

 

I do play like an idiot sometimes, so there's that. Valve makes their game levels so that any idiot can solve them, which has served them well, but also results in a lot of missed opportunities. I guess that is the tradeoff we all have to make.

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Here's an update. This is a screenshot of the map in the editor (Eureka, in case anyone was wondering).

 

I finished drawing all the sectors and placing some of the items. There's still work to be done with texturing, aligning, detailing, etc. as well as implementing difficulty levels and balancing the monsters, health, and ammo. And I may add a few more monsters to some of the rooms that are empty.

 

I ran through it tonight just to see how the level stands and after getting frustrated a few times with too little ammo and health (like I said, work is still to be done), I put on IDDQD and (after running out of ammo again) IDKFA and was able to get through the level in about 7 minutes. So, I figure this map should run somewhere in the 5-10 minute neighborhood. There's two optional areas that would probably add another 5 or 10 minutes. It would not surprise me at all if the level could be UV-maxed in a shorter time than that, but it won't be by me.

 

My current plan is to have the level finished and posted before Monday. (I'm glad I started on the 2nd, and did wait until the middle of the month or later.)

 

But, this is basically what the layout of "Pathways of the Tortured Dead" (inspired by Pandemonium and House of Pain) will look like.

 

1869612394_ScreenShot2018-07-10at11_22_17PM.png.f61d8c66cfd62bbf12595d3ebec8c8b3.png

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So I went ahead and quickly did the update I was talking about so that it could be the one people were testing.  Attaching the revised map.

 

This version adds a trigger to temporarily close off the path back to the three key switch hallways so that the player doesn't waste time going back to use them before it's useful.  A teleporter will also be opened to avoid lockouts in coop.  (Ironically, there are still no coop starts in this version.) It automatically opens back up around the time the player gets the final (blue) key.

 

No other changes this time; still looking for general feedback.  Thanks!

 

edit: removed link altogether so I don't have to keep finding this post to update it; look in Bonnie's OP for the link to the link to the most recent version

 

Edited by jerrysheppy

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drx-JerryFDA.zip  (For the first version)

It took me ~40 minutes to reach the end. That should tell you everything you need to know.

 

Slow automatic elevators are dull. Gigantic slow automatic elevators are awful. There were several long paths leading to a dead end that would obviously get opened later somehow and several switches that gave no indications of their function, which meant going back through those long paths to see which ones changed. The fireblue maze was a mess. None of the fights stuck out to me as interesting or notable, aside from the double cyberdemon fight at the end which was just unpleasant.

 

Sorry, but I did not enjoy this map.

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Well, I certainly appreciate your honesty and sticking it out to the very end (for the record, I would have expected you to turn it off after ten minutes or so if you were hating it that much, and wouldn't have blamed you for doing so and just giving your feedback on the first part).

 

The cyberdemon fight you mention (which is only a double on UV) is one of the things that I figured might not fit in bonnie's vision for this mapset, heh, but it was my original inspiration for the ending so I kept it in just to see if people would generally enjoy it or not.

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Map Name: Parabola

Most inspired by: Pandemonium

Build time: around 5 hours

Music: From E1M9

Coop support: Mostly completed but untested

DM support: 4 starts, some extra weapon placement

Description: A demon filled cave encrusted with bricks, metal, and flesh.

Demo: Included in download, recorded in PrBoom+ 2.5.1.5 on HMP

 

Download: parabola.wad.zip

Actual file is in proper naming format

 

-Fixed the tutti-frutti on the stairs, added new details, changed some areas, and edited the difficulties

 

Edited by Garbage : updated the map, k?

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10 hours ago, jerrysheppy said:

The cyberdemon fight you mention (which is only a double on UV) is one of the things that I figured might not fit in bonnie's vision for this mapset, heh

If the desire is for the maps to feel like they could have been in an id-designed episode, then I think 2 cyberdemons would fall outside that scope, since there's only 1 cyberdemon in the original Inferno (and it's in the secret level).

 

The first time I remember seeing multiple cyberdemons in one room was one of Chris Klie's levels (I'm pretty sure it was his, not Robert Carter's, but I could be wrong) that ended up in The Lost Episodes of Doom. And, as I recall, you didn't actually have to fight the cyberdemons. Twin cyberdemon fights seem to be a thing of late (I can think of Saturnine Chapel and Sunlust off the top of my head), but whether they fit in an Inferno-inspired episode is a call for @bonnie to make.

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Went ahead and made some more tweaks based on @sarge945's and @Darox's feedback to hopefully mitigate some of the understandable points of frustration.

 

A couple of requests to make the testing and feedback process as pleasant and useful as possible:

 

  1. If you're finding the map to be a miserable experience (overall, not just one dumb ambush or w/e) then please feel free to stop playing right then and post to tell me why you weren't enjoying it, rather than spending 30 additional minutes being miserable.  
  2. Obviously, I enjoy watching demos of my maps (all else being equal).  But in terms of me actually fixing something like you getting lost, it's much more helpful to post something like "After I got the yellow key, I wasn't sure what to do; my thinking was to do X or Y but those weren't working" rather than making me try to figure it out from watching your demo.  

 

Here's what I changed in this version:

Spoiler

1. Went ahead and put impassable midbar railings around the switch pylons so that people can't accidentally fall off them and miss seeing where I intended them to go next.

 

2. Made it so you can't visit the yellow key area at all before the yellow key is accessible, to avoid the player wasting time there or feeling like they have to check if something randomly lowered the key (again, before the map clearly directs them there anyway).

 

3. Made a clue much more visible after flipping the switch behind the yellow key door.

 

4.The second gauntlet of automatic lifts (the ones you use to progress onwards after taking the red key) has been changed from seven 64x64 platforms to three 128x128 platforms.  This will both reduce the potential number of platforms the player needs to wait for, and let them better avoid fire without falling off.

 

And here is a spoiler description of the clues that are intended to guide the player after flipping particular switches.  If you are interested in testing, please play for the first time without looking at these spoilers, then tell me afterwards if you missed/misinterpreted these clues, and how.

Spoiler

 

(NB: All these "can't miss" features should now be (almost) literally impossible to miss following change #1 above.  Obviously the player can wander past them while refusing to pay attention or enter the newly opened area, but I'm not sure how to address that.  I guess the player could also be walking backwards so that they don't see the new area I opened up/changed right in their path, but again, that seems unreasonable to ask me as a mapper to deal with.)

 

1. After visiting the central switch room for the second time and flipping the second switch (linedef 2149), the player can't avoid passing by the newly opened area (sector 408) and seeing the teleporter it contains.  The teleporter takes the player to the area with the accessible yellow key immediately visible from the player's arrival point.

 

2. After passing through the yellow door and flipping the third switch (linedef 2144), an arrow appears (sector 479).  The player cannot miss passing by this on their way back out of the area.  The arrow points the player to the left/south, where, if they proceed a little ways, they will find that sector 291 has lowered.  This should be especially difficult to miss due to the angry Baron emerging from the opened area.

This is a place where I honestly fucked up.  I originally made the arrow "appear" using a set-brightness-to-255 option, but in practice it didn't actually show up well enough.  I should have caught this in solo testing--mea culpa!  The arrow now appears via a lower-and-change-texture trigger, which should make it much harder to miss.

EDIT:  And i actually fucked this up again by not actually setting the proper linedef type in the version I uploaded, apparently??  (linedef 651 is properly tagged, but needs to also have action 37) It will be fixed for the next draft.

 

3. After getting the red key, returning to the red door, and passing through to flip the final switch behind it (linedef 2150), sector 299 rises.  This should be impossible to avoid noticing as the player leaves the area, since the floor texture is changed to one that contrasts sharply with the rest of the area.  This clearly leads to a previously inaccessible teleporter, which teleports the player to a location facing the now-raised Sector 437, with the obvious invitation to jump to it and continue through the newly accessible area to the northeast.

 

I don't think anything else from that point onwards should give rise to "what the heck did this switch do" questions in the player's mind, until possibly...

 

4. Once the player has all three keys and is able to return to the three keyed-switch hallways that they encountered early in the map, the intention is that they'll then think to return to the prominent set of key-colored barriers that they saw at the very beginning of the map, and which have now been lowered by flipping the three switches, making the exit accessible.  Again, this is one of those things that I show to the player as clearly as possible: the player can't avoid walking up to and stepping on the SSG altar at the very beginning of the map, which means they should see the set of three barriers along with the "EXIT" sign and realize that lowering these barriers is going to be the primary "task" of the map.

 

 

I am certainly not claiming that anyone is particularly stupid for not seeing things exactly the way I intended them to be seen.  But rather than just being frustrated, I hope you'll give me feedback that helps me redesign things so that players perceive them correctly!

 

 

edit: removed file; look in Bonnie's OP to hunt down the most recent version

Edited by jerrysheppy

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47 minutes ago, Pegleg said:

If the desire is for the maps to feel like they could have been in an id-designed episode, then I think 2 cyberdemons would fall outside that scope, since there's only 1 cyberdemon in the original Inferno (and it's in the secret level).

 

The first time I remember seeing multiple cyberdemons in one room was one of Chris Klie's levels (I'm pretty sure it was his, not Robert Carter's, but I could be wrong) that ended up in The Lost Episodes of Doom. And, as I recall, you didn't actually have to fight the cyberdemons. Twin cyberdemon fights seem to be a thing of late (I can think of Saturnine Chapel and Sunlust off the top of my head), but whether they fit in an Inferno-inspired episode is a call for @bonnie to make.

 

My concern that @bonnie would object to my use of cyberdemon(s) is not so much because of straight up difficulty, because they've said that they're fine with higher levels of difficulty (Plutonia specifically was mentioned). Rather, it's the fact that they don't want obvious big finale-style battles.  Which I can certainly understand, and I'm not married to the idea at all.  If @bonnie doesn't want the cyberdemon presence, I'll be happy to take 'em out or maybe set them to be multiplayer-only.

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Sacrilege has been updated with a new map, demo & screenshots!

 

On 7/9/2018 at 5:04 AM, Darox said:

Here's version two of Sacrilege.

 

Map: drx-Sacrilegev2.zip

 

 

Inspired by Unholy Cathedral and Gateway to Limbo

Build time: 10 days

Music: Waltz of the Demons (Placeholder)

Coop support: 4 starts, additional ammo/monsters (-solo-net tested only)

DM support: 5 starts near shotguns/chainguns (untested)

Demo (UV-100% Kills 0% Secrets): drx-SacrilegeUV.zip
 

Screenshots:

  Reveal hidden contents

5prCLnJ.png

 

D6D7GTN.png

 

9MUrDXB.png

 

bUJLrcN.png

 

4ZTalbe.png

I hope you enjoy it.

 

I rebalanced the three teleporter landings to make them more equal in terms of threats/ammo, reworked the yellow key door, went over all the rooms and polished the detailing/lighting, and did a bunch of other difficulty tweaks. Difficulties are now fully implemented and there's more health and ammo to go around.

Also included: More secrets, more imps, more blood.

 

Tell me what you like, what you hate, and I'd especially <3 your demos.

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3 hours ago, Garbage said:

Map Name: Parabola

Most inspired by: Pandemonium

Build time: around 5 hours

Music: From E1M9

Coop support: Mostly completed but untested

DM support: 4 starts, some extra weapon placement

Description: A demon filled cave encrusted with bricks, metal, and flesh.

Demo: n/a yet

 

Download: parabola.wad.zip

Actual file is in proper naming format

 

-I am not a fan of using blocking hanging-body decorations in places where the player can get hung up on them.  In an alcove where they simply block the player from walking into the alcove, sure.  Maybe even in bigger rooms where they don't constitute an actual dangerous impediment.  But it's frustrating to be in an already-cramped room and be blocked by a random hanging body, especially when I happen to know there's a non-blocking version of that thing.

 

-Playing on HMP (since I'm not the world's best Doomer and don't usually play on UV), I felt extremely health and ammo starved.  Even though I eventually get a berserk pack (after a couple minutes of dodging enemies rather than try and fight them with the non-berserk fist) and green armor, I still hated having to fight the green armor ambush with nothing heavier than a chaingun or single shotgun (rocket launcher isn't an option for obvious reasons).  At that point I just IDDQD'd so I could see the rest of the map.

 

-Aside from simply being health, weapon & ammo starved, though, the gameplay was fine.  Type, number, and deployment of enemies were all theoretically fine.  With more resources I could see this being a pleasant early-episode map.

 

-Visuals are great!  Obviously very far to the simplistic end of the Inferno spectrum, as opposed to some of the bigger setpieces like in E3M5 and E3M6.  But it works well.

 

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Thank you @jerrysheppy for testing! Other people felt like health was too available in the previous version, so hopefully I can find the equilibrium in this next edit. I'll add more ammo, since near the end I felt a little starved as well. I'll also move/edit those decos, I didn't plan for them to obstruct the player so much.

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@jerrysheppy I have a demo for you.

JL-Infernew-AC

PRBoom+ 2.5.1.5, complevel 2, skill 4, jl-infernew-r2.wad

 

I enjoyed your map, contrary to the apparent consensus. I didn't have any problem with the keys or the combat. If anything, the combat was quite easy.

I liked your use of barons, though I like the barons anyway, and where they were used did take advantage of their tankiness, or, in a couple cases, it was possible to just run around them.

Only real issue I had with the map was the incredibly slow platforms and the lifts were too slow for me, but that's partly because I hate lifts and doors and things that slow me down.

I got more of an E2 vibe than E3, but that's okay, and I also got a bit of a Sandy vibe from it, too, so good on you for that.

I didn't mind the length. I like really long maps. I like maps that use all the keys. I like maps with a good number of monsters, and you hit every one of these for me.

Obviously, the dual cyber fight at the end would've been infinitely easier with the BFG on hand, but the secret invul made that fight a cakewalk.

As you'll most likely notice from the FDA, I punched a lot of the monsters, so I had no problem with ammo.

Also, you did add the SSG, but that only served to enhance the feel for me. It didn't feel Doom 2, but like Doom+.

One thing I liked from the older version was being able to reach the yellow skull area a little earlier, because I got to see one of my objectives before I could accomplish it.

The red skull area didn't give me much trouble, only the shotgunners managed to land any real hurt on me there, which made the slough/fireblu maze a little annoying. About the fireblu maze/cave/whatever, I'm largely ambivalent to it. It felt added to just be there.

In the white canyon, you'll see I used SR40 to get across the gap to what turned out to be the blue skull area. I'm not sure if I was supposed to do that or something else first, but I didn't seem to break the map, so I'm assuming it's just another solution.

A minor thing I noticed in the blue skull area was the blood pools that would remain suspended above the lifts after they went down, but I'm sure that's not your fault.

You'll see me stop once or twice for no apparent reason, that's because I was looking at the automap for a moment.

 

TL;DR: I liked it. Gameplay was solid, if easy, and it was nicely interconnected with itself, but the perpetual platforms cause flow to suffer.

 

@Garbage, I have an FDA for you, too.

Parabola-AC

PRBoom+ 2.5.1.5, complevel 2, skill 4, latest Parabola.wad

 

I found your map rather easy, as well. I didn't notice any ammo starvation, and I didn't have to use the rocket launcher at any point.

Your maps tend to be solid, gameplay wise, even if they are a little easy, but I would very much have liked to have the berserk near the beginning like in jerry's map, but I did fine, regardless.

The flow needs some work, though. There are too many doors for my liking (though I hate doors because they slow me down), but there aren't many, so it's not that bad.

You'll see I caused much infighting, which is how I assumed I was supposed to handle these encounters.

There were some nice details, but the level felt really flat over all (I say as if Malebolge isn't flat), so I think it could use a little more height variation, though I don't suggest you change too much.

I liked the teleporter trap down in the skin area, that was clever.

The cacos behind the blue door didn't have more chance to my uber-leet door kamping skillz and I was mildly annoyed when the door kept closing on me.

The fatso in the stone area didn't do much, I would suggest giving him a little more room to move.

I liked the blue armor room. I love 'zerking things. Even the revenant around the corner didn't stand a chance against me at that point.

I found the soulsphere secret, and I didn't need it at all, but I liked that it was a reward for the player to find it, even if it was easy to find.

 

TL;DR: Good for an early map. Would be a good way to ease into the set. Too many doors, though, and the blue door should stay open.

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@Aquila Chrysaetos thanks for playing through, but I think @bonnie didn't update the link to this post. That was the first WIP map, in the current version I did add some platforms for the imps so the map had some height variation and I made the blue door stay open. I guess I have to update that specific post.

Edited by Garbage

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2 hours ago, Darox said:

Sacrilege has been updated with a new map, demo & screenshots!

 

 

I rebalanced the three teleporter landings to make them more equal in terms of threats/ammo, reworked the yellow key door, went over all the rooms and polished the detailing/lighting, and did a bunch of other difficulty tweaks. Difficulties are now fully implemented and there's more health and ammo to go around.

Also included: More secrets, more imps, more blood.

 

Tell me what you like, what you hate, and I'd especially <3 your demos.

 

First of all, attaching a demo as you requested, even though I died.  This was my third attempt, and the first two (on HMP) were as frustrating for me as my map seems to have been for you, albeit my suffering was much shorter!  I kicked it down to HNTR and managed to get a bit farther, before a death to Revenant missiles that I honestly think was because my GZDoom-calibrated instincts don't play quite right with PRBoom-- you can see I was trying to circle-dodge them but fucked it up due to the difference in controls.

 

After this, I stopped recording because I wanted to be able to use saves to prevent having to replay the entire map if something killed me.  I tried again and this time it went very smoothly-- shortly after the place where I'd died previously, I got some heavy weaponry and proper armor and the map became genuinely fun.  The ambush when I return to the central cross room was fun, the revenant ambush a little further on was fun, the progression mechanic where the switches opened the curved staircases on the opposite side was intuitive.  Everything was great!  It's just the nasty opening, which, to be fair, would have been much less frustrating if I was playing through with saves as I ordinarily do with a megawad, rather than trying to pistol-start a blind demo...

 

Everything was very pretty as well.  I liked the red skull bloodfall "fountains."  Great work.

 

drx-sacrilegev2_jl.zip

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@Garbage, I hadn't used the latest version. I already had one on my computer and I assumed that the one there would replace the one I had.

Parabola-1.1-AC

The point about the doors still stands, but the blue door is fixed.

The soulsphere at the blue skull seemed completely unnecessary.

Not much more to say.

 

@Darox, I have an FDA for you.

Sacrilege-AC

PRBoom+ 2.5.1.5, complevel 2, skill 4, drx-Sacrilegev2.wad

 

Interesting idea. It was executed well enough, but I don't feel the three possible start areas were exactly even in their encounters. The one with the souls and the cacos and nothing else was a bit of an ammo drain. Souls are weird.

As you'll see, I spent some time causing a lot of infighting.

The encounters were nice, in their cramped rooms, but in the yellow key room, it's possible to shoot the revs through the windows and snipe them out from there. The MIDSPACE textures there also clip through the floor, but that's a problem with the software renderer, not map design.

The area through the yellow door was a cool encounter, but the only real threats there were the pain elemental and the revs.

It was very E3, aesthetically, so that was good, and the combat didn't seem to Doom II-ish with the D2 monsters added here and there.

The only part that gave me real difficulty was the yellow skull room on the return with the red skull, because of the vile there resurrecting the pinkies while I was launching rockets at him. You can see there that I had foreknowledge of the situation because I died there when a pinky decided to it wanted to cuddle while I was shooting rockets.

The ending was good, and the vile at the exit was unexpected, but not a problem to deal with.

 

TL;DR: It's a solid map with interesting execution, but one of the early fights could use a little tweaking.

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8 minutes ago, Aquila Chrysaetos said:

The MIDSPACE textures there also clip through the floor

I didn't notice this specifically but if it's the bug I'm thinking of, I believe you can avoid it by setting the adjacent sectors to be different light levels.  If you don't want a perceptible difference in light levels you can set it to be a difference of 1 (like 127 on one side and 128 on the other) and it will still convince the engine to render it properly.

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@Aquila Chrysaetos, thank you for the demo!!  You do seem to have had something closer to my intended experience with it. ;)  I don't know how much my changes are to thank for that, but it's good to see.

 

You had the patience of a saint with punching and infighting, but that just means you could have made it go faster by using heavier weaponry in some parts, and it's cool you were able to easily beat my map with your preferred playstyle.

 

2 hours ago, Aquila Chrysaetos said:

One thing I liked from the older version was being able to reach the yellow skull area a little earlier, because I got to see one of my objectives before I could accomplish it.

I do think the element you mention is neat (and was my original intention), but 2 out of 3 people were frustrated with it so I decided to see how it would play differently.  Obviously it's something I can still change back and forth.

2 hours ago, Aquila Chrysaetos said:

About the fireblu maze/cave/whatever, I'm largely ambivalent to it. It felt added to just be there.

Yeah it was me trying to connect those two places with a random feature that felt iwad-ish.  I might change it to be a less dickish straight corridor rather than a maze.

 

2 hours ago, Aquila Chrysaetos said:

In the white canyon, you'll see I used SR40 to get across the gap to what turned out to be the blue skull area. I'm not sure if I was supposed to do that or something else first, but I didn't seem to break the map, so I'm assuming it's just another solution.

 

Technically I didn't intend that.  You're right it doesn't break the map, the player can still get all the keys and get everywhere they need to, but it's not the intended progression. I may leave it in since it's in the spirit of the IWADs for there to be shortcuts accessible with careful use of SR40 by those in the know. :U  What do you think?

 

2 hours ago, Aquila Chrysaetos said:

A minor thing I noticed in the blue skull area was the blood pools that would remain suspended above the lifts after they went down, but I'm sure that's not your fault.

Yeah i dunno WTF is up with that, is it a known bug with that object?

 

2 hours ago, Aquila Chrysaetos said:

would've been infinitely easier with the BFG on hand

There actually is a BFG in the map, though it's in a secret (and a secret you didn't even have the chance to get what with your little sequence break there.)

 

Again, thank you so much for your demo and your careful (and more positive, heh) feedback!

 

EDIT: One problem I noticed in your demo is that I did not actually change the "arrow" clue outside the yellow door like I thought I did.  I made a control sector, I even tagged the linedef, but didn't actually set the linedef type.  I will fix that in my next revision.

Edited by jerrysheppy

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5 minutes ago, jerrysheppy said:

Yeah it was me trying to connect those two places with a random feature that felt iwad-ish.  I might change it to be a less dickish straight corridor rather than a maze.

You don't have to do that. I didn't mind the maze itself, it was the spectres I took issue with. Maybe standard pinkies would be a little more forgiving.

 

About the blood pools and the blood/guts pools, I think it's because they have the NOBLOCKMAP flag (which could cause this to happen), but that should be irrelevant because they also have the MOVEWITHSECTOR flag (which should make them move with the sector).

https://zdoom.org/wiki/Classes:SmallBloodPool

https://zdoom.org/wiki/Classes:ColonGibs

 

Thank you for commending my patience. It's patience that seems required to beat Malebolge, because I don't think I placed enough ammo for a UV-max to be possible without punching things.

I'll punch anything short of a cyber or mastermind, but I figured it best to shoot the barons instead of punch them.

My playstyle does seem to be dominated by punching and infighting, which seems to throw some people (my demos for Malebolge use this prolifically in UV), but whatever, it's how I like to do it.

 

I imagine I probably missed quite a bit with my sequence break, which I'd like for you to keep in, because it does require some know-how and a little ambition to try, but it's up to you to keep, but I somewhat felt it was either intended or just allowed upon finding nothing actually broke (which I was afraid of at first).

 

If I'd found that BFG, then that cyber fight would probably have been over in 20 seconds, so it's probably best to keep that in its secret.

 

Not very much changed from your earlier version, which I happened to be recording when you posted the newer version, so I had to do it again, which was no problem for me. I wasn't confused very often, and my map showed me where I needed to go next, which was never far from where I was, as I remember, which is good.

That was something I really liked about your map: that you never put me somewhere without a reason to go there in the first place. Antares does the same thing in Struggle, and it keeps an otherwise good map from being infuriatingly confusing.

 

I'd look forward to more maps from you.

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7 minutes ago, Aquila Chrysaetos said:

It's patience that seems required to beat Malebolge, because I don't think I placed enough ammo for a UV-max to be possible without punching things.

 

I haven't playtested your map yet-- though I think I will-- but my general philosophy is it's not as much of a problem to expect that sort of thing on UV from a pistol start.  On maps that will be part of a larger episode or megawad, as these will, it's reasonable to assume as the default that someone is playing through from previous maps (unless the map is intended as the first of the episode, naturally) and that anyone who wants to pistol start, at least on UV, does so at their own risk of possibly needing additional foreknowledge and strategy.

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My map is ready!

 

Uncanny Village (v1.2)

(MAP21 slot)

Most inspired by: Mount Erebus

Build time: Two days

Music: Sinister (Doom 1's D_E2M6)

Co-op Support: Yes (player starts + respawn-related failsafes)

DM Support: Player starts only

Demo: ...

Screenshots:

infernew-map2_1.pnginfernew-map2_2.png.58db543078058a915588d562e31d84ec.png

 

Description:

In addition to Mount Erebus, the level was also inspired by the pre-release version of Doom 2 MAP07, as well as AReyeP's Wolfendoom E5L3... but it's largely its own thing, while keeping the general inferno aesthetic. I think right now the level is maybe 50% required areas, 50% sidepaths? Also there's a couple of sequence breaks I left in on purpose.

 

The level contains 1 Arachnotron, 1 Archvile, 1 Pain Elemental, 2 Revenants, 7 Chaingunners, 2 Barons, 2 Hell Knights, 6 Cacodemons, 19 Lost Souls, 30 Shotgun guys, 24 Zombiemen, 13 Spectres, 18 Demons and 69 Imps.

infernewScypek_UncannyVillage_v1.1.zip

Edited by Scypek2 : second update to the map

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On 7/9/2018 at 10:23 AM, Aquila Chrysaetos said:

Fixed.

Before I make any serious edits, I'm going to wait on further feedback.

 

I couldn't find any more recent posts, so I recorded a demo of this version; I hope it's the right one.  I also played it and wrote this feedback blind, without reading any of the other comments.  Skill was HNTR since that is usually the best fit for me in modern pwads and I got burned once already by HMP with this project. :P

 

There's not a lot to say.  Well, I could say my BFG skills are comically bad, but that's not a comment on your map.  The architecture and texturing are lovely (for Sandy Petersen values of "lovely") and fit perfectly, the sheer amount of meaty enemies is great fun as far as it goes, but the gimmick is not one I care for, at all.  Give me a balanced spread of weapons and some freaking armor and I probably give this map 5 stars as a submission for this project.  As is, I was relieved when it was over and I wouldn't want to play it again, at least not from a 100/0 pistol start.  :(

 

 

ac-malebolge-jl.zip

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On 7/10/2018 at 11:21 AM, Aquila Chrysaetos said:

Malebolge

Most inspired by: Pandemonium

Build time: 8-12 hours

Music: Mist Ache from Rise of the Triad

Coop support: Rudimentary (some extra monsters, starts exist)

DM support: Starts and weapons, somewhat optimized for DM in a few locations

Demo: Malebolge-UV-100S-AC (Near UV-max, 98% kills, 100% secrets)

Shots:

  Reveal hidden contents

9OiacLU.png

 

CcRyGOv.png

 

XyhCU6B.png

Shots taken in GZDoom 1.8.2

 

@jerrysheppy, here's the latest version.

I appreciate you playing through, and I'm not concrete on whether I should take the Sandy Petersen value of lovely as a compliment or a friendly jab, given it was widely known at id that Sandy made some fun maps that were not very aesthetically pleasing, compared to Romero's maps.

 

Yeah, it's gimmicky. HNTR is the BFG difficulty, HMP is a rocket difficulty (I'm assuming you gave it a shot, first), and UV is the more "traditional" difficulty, but all the heavy weapons on UV are locked away in secrets, so I'm not thinking you would've liked it any better, given I optimized it mostly for 'zerking. I understand not liking the gimmick (how many BFG-only maps do we see? How many rocket-only?), but I did make the BFG the lowest difficulty for the very reason that it's the strongest weapon.

 

The later version should have fewer monsters on all difficulties, being somewhat more optimized than the version you played.

 

Higher difficulties have somewhat more plentiful monsters, but they're generally lower-tier (given the BFG is, well, the BFG, unless you're slaughtering hordes of crunchy monsters, killing low-tiers with it is rather wasteful and not terribly fun, I don't think) than what you saw.

 

On that note, if @bonnie would allow a MAP33, I might be able to make a more traditional version of Malebolge (or we can stick this one in that slot, I don't care that much), maybe with a secret SSG to better handle the plentiful barons, that you'd likely enjoy.

 

If not, I could compile it anyway and release one or the other as a standalone, if that's what people want. I wanted to do something unique, but this is a community project, so the community's thoughts reign supreme.

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34 minutes ago, Aquila Chrysaetos said:

I'm not concrete on whether I should take the Sandy Petersen value of lovely as a compliment or a friendly jab, given it was widely known at id that Sandy made some fun maps that were not very aesthetically pleasing, compared to Romero's maps.

 

Oh, I definitely mean it is a compliment.  It refers to its own style that can be done well, and you definitely did it very well, it just isn't "lovely" in the same way that, say, an Ancient Alien, Whispers of Satan, or BTSX map is. :D

 

I didn't know that different skill levels had different gimmicks.  I think that, assuming enough rockets to comfortably kill everything, I might actually have liked the rocket launcher better since one of the problems with the BFG is that it's a feast or famine weapon-- yes, it's powerful, but if you miss your mark with the tracers and such, you just wasted a LOT of the sometimes limited amount of cells.  Also, the rocket launcher is (assuming that there are no aiming problems related to height difficulties or nimble enemies) a strong medium or long range weapon, whereas the BFG requires maneuvering uncomfortably close to be efficient against enemies like Barons.

I would definitely vote for putting a "conventional" version in the main pack and having a gimmick version in a secret/supersecret slot, rather than vice versa.  But I don't think you have to efface your own style and concept just because it's a community map pack.  If I encountered this in playing through the regular episode, I'd probably think it was fine.

Of course, ultimately it's bonnie's call.

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