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hardcore_gamer

Is it possible for a mod to get banned only because of violent content?

Is this form of content ok?  

44 members have voted

  1. 1. Is this form of content ok?

    • Yes, nobody cares how brutal/nasty doom wads are as long as it isn't porn
      22
    • No, there are limits even for Doom and brutal imagery of dead tortured babies moves well past it
      22


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Posted (edited)

Obviously there are rules against things like putting nudity/porn into your mods, but is it possible to make a mod so brutal that it's not allowed only because of the gore/violence it depicts? The reason I ask is because I am sort of entertaining the idea of making an extremely unsettling hell level/mod that depicts the area of hell where unbaptized infants go which would feature models/sprites of torn a part/mutilated infants and fetuses (not real images mind you, just models and sprite work), as well as infants being subjected to horrible hellish torture. There would also be some new enemies based on these tortured infants sort of like the Cherub from Doom 3 but more nasty.

 

However I am also aware of how big of a taboo the depiction of violence towards children let alone infants is, so I don't want to go through with it if such content is considered unacceptable. What is your take on this? Should I do this or just drop the idea?

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Posted (edited)

Shouldn't. I'm pretty sure there are some limits concerning brutality and violence, this will likely go beyond the limit.

Edited by Agent6

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lets be real, no one here is gona top the level of violence MKX has displayed. I say go right ahead and add as much guts as possible.

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Well, in the wild, predators prefer hunting the young because they're easier prey. This can easily be explained on why you'd see lots of child corpses in hell.

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Hell no.

This is a line Ghoul's Forest 3 already crossed and it got a ton of flak for it. Now you have noted that it won't be the same (no hi-res images), but the answer is still no.

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Actually there is a whole section on the /idgames archive dedicated to porn wads.

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While it could (and probably would) be shocking and get a lot of flak, I don't think it's enough of a reason to ban it or limit its distribution, IMO.

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The mention of dead tortured babies in the poll kinda drove me away.

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5 minutes ago, pc234 said:

The mention of dead tortured babies in the poll kinda drove me away.

 

Kinda like a "question" that already carries its own answer. Or a suspiciously specific denial.

 

Anyhow, if someone wants to make something violent and repulsive today's PC and SJW attitudes make it all too easy. Not really worth the effort. Once again, I cannot not point the irony that such sensitivities are quite strong, of all places, in a community built around appreciating a violent game with depictions of Hell. *shrug*

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Posted (edited)

I personally don't think the mod shouldn't be banned for violence, but I think the issue is more the context the violence is represented in. Just trying to be edgy will end up being tasteless - and sometimes the worse chance is that there is some twisted motive or context behind it, be it racism or worse. 

I am quite unconvinced that if such mod would be produced would have much value to it, just going for the shock value and becoming renowned for it.

 

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hardcore_gamer, may I suggest teaming up with Mk7_Centipede to make a Doom map? It seems like both of you guys have very good ideas that should definitely see the light of day.

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Posted (edited)

Perhaps a somewhat watered down version would make more sense and be more artistic, like you don't SEE the tortured babies but it's strongly hinted/implied by various things in the level what the place is suppose to be. I still like the idea of an angry baby soul monster though, I am thinking about like a cut in half baby torso where the upper half above the waist is missing and instead you have a bunch of tentacles coming from there that attack the player.

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Posted (edited)

However, just for the sake of argument, has a mod/WAD ever been banned on censorship/subjective tastelessness grounds alone at the time of release? And by whose infinitely impartial, fair and wise judgement’s? Mods have been and do get rejected from idgames on copyright grounds, limproper crediting, or because they are SLIGE levels, etc. or, in very special cases, because of political sensitivities (the infamous Harris levels are a cause célèbre, but even those were removed only with the benefit of hindsight. They were far from the first "School Doom shooting" levels ever made).

 

6 minutes ago, hardcore_gamer said:

Perhaps a somewhat watered down version would make more sense and be more artistic, like you don't SEE the tortured babies but it's strongly hinted/implied by various things in the level what the place is suppose to be. I still like the idea of an angry baby soul monster though.

 

How about babies with an old man's face being used as mortar in Hell?

 

 

Edited by Maes

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Ermi said:

lets be real, no one here is gona top the level of violence MKX has displayed.

Like Ermi said, I highly doubt you'll be banned. But I can't recomend this as remember that your mod work is tied to you and the things you release will stick with you in the community for the rest of your time. I personally wouldn't want to be known as the dead baby guy, just saying.

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2 minutes ago, MrGlide said:

Like Ermi said, I highly doubt you'll be banned. But I can't recomend this as remember that your mod work is tied to you and the things you release will stick with you in the community for the rest of your time. I personally wouldn't want to be known as the dead baby guy, just saying.

 

Well a bunch of other games have included babies such as Dead Space 1 and 2 and even Doom 3 itself with it's Cherub enemy. There is even a level in Dead Space 2 where you butcher mutated children in a kindergarten.

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2 minutes ago, hardcore_gamer said:

 

Well a bunch of other games have included babies such as Dead Space 1 and 2 and even Doom 3 itself with it's Cherub enemy. There is even a level in Dead Space 2 where you butcher mutated children in a kindergarten.

i think in situations like this what counts is the context. Why have these kids been murdered?
Im actually in the process of writing the story for a mod im working on that deals with such things, and the player does come across corpses of children that have been experimented on and mutilated beyond recognition. Its a deliberate attempt to shock the player, and fuel the protagonist with rage against the upcoming enemies/boss that did this. Its all in good context, but i agree that without it its unacceptable. Obviously it should be avoided at all costs, its a very risky road to take.

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8 minutes ago, hardcore_gamer said:

 

Well a bunch of other games have included babies such as Dead Space 1 and 2 and even Doom 3 itself with it's Cherub enemy. There is even a level in Dead Space 2 where you butcher mutated children in a kindergarten.

 

The difference being that those games were made by professional developers and your most prolific release is, and I quote, "poopy.wad".

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2 minutes ago, Obsidian said:

 

The difference being that those games were made by professional developers and your most prolific release is, and I quote, "poopy.wad".

 

That wad was made over 11 years ago when I was a lot younger and less mature. And even then it wasn't very funny honestly. I have made lots of wads, including this one which was pretty well liked:

 

https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/levels/doom2/Ports/d-f/farohr

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naah, nobody mod can be censored, at least brutal doom and terry wads no...

 

but the terry wads affect my mental health (not much, but some), i not a mature person because I am a teen :"v

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1 minute ago, hardcore_gamer said:

less mature

 

*Laughs derisively*

 

11 years and this is where it's led you. Do yourself a favor man: next time you have a thought like this, ask yourself if it's even worth asking. Ask yourself "Hm, would I get laughed out of the room if I asked this in a real life setting?" Seriously, you'll save yourself and everyone else a whole lot of brain cells.

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12 minutes ago, Maes said:

However, just for the sake of argument, has a mod/WAD ever been banned on censorship/subjective tastelessness grounds alone at the time of release?

Yes. The age of Internet innocence is behind us. Time to grow up and take at least a shred of responsibility.

12 minutes ago, Maes said:

And by whose infinitely impartial, fair and wise judgement’s?

Formerly Ty Halderman, now Bloodshedder and The Green Herring. Like, that was pretty lame even for you. If you wanna call them out on their authority, do it. "I don't believe BS and TGH should be able to use their personal judgment to keep shitty wads from the archive." Maybe start your own thread about it. Don't throw out weakly suggestive rhetoricals just because you want to derail a thread into a more abstract discussion.

17 minutes ago, Maes said:

the infamous Harris levels are a cause célèbre, but even those were removed only with the benefit of hindsight.

Is this correct though? I lived under the impression that Harris did not upload his wads to idgames and Ty simply blocked the samaritan "archivists" who started uploading the existing wads after Columbine. I mean, I'm saying you might be wrong as usual and instead of hindsight it was just common sense that was being consistently applied. But I could be wrong, in which case I apologize!

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1 hour ago, hardcore_gamer said:

Perhaps a somewhat watered down version would make more sense and be more artistic, like you don't SEE the tortured babies but it's strongly hinted/implied by various things in the level what the place is suppose to be. I still like the idea of an angry baby soul monster though, I am thinking about like a cut in half baby torso where the upper half above the waist is missing and instead you have a bunch of tentacles coming from there that attack the player.

 

Doesn't Doom 3 essentially have that with the Cherub enemies?  

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1 hour ago, hardcore_gamer said:

Perhaps a somewhat watered down version would make more sense and be more artistic, like you don't SEE the tortured babies but it's strongly hinted/implied by various things in the level what the place is suppose to be. I still like the idea of an angry baby soul monster though, I am thinking about like a cut in half baby torso where the upper half above the waist is missing and instead you have a bunch of tentacles coming from there that attack the player.

I think the best horror is always what you don't see, the creeping notion of what is out there rather than what is in here.

 

You could achieve this without directly displaying the corpses, you could show this by instead show this by subtlety, give the map an implication of what is going on with a suiting title (Something involving words like "Twisted Nursery" or "Unholy Baptism", maybe even be comically on the nose with something like "Infant Repurposing Facilities" to give a nice juxtaposition to the horror) and less demon babies themselves but more implications that they were "born" or "reborn" here through imagery (a deactivated conveyer displaying unused "components", unholy ritual sites stained with blood and mucus, flavourful and impactful uses of gore to convey events long passed... Ect).

 

Perhaps you could show the demon, to achieve great effect I'd say never let the player fight it directly, have it pass by quickly, observe you from a distance before scuttling off, have it creep throughout the map forever watching... I've always had this idea to have something horrific behind a window or gate not looking at you until you get close, it then turns at you (revealing the true horror of it's visage) before smiling at you (acknowledging your presence) before slinking off into the dark never to be seen again, I feel like that could work out here.

 

Only through suggestion can you attain such horror without coming of as tackey, of course you'll need good sounds too (maybe some scuttling in the vents/caves, some childish giggles or gargles depends on how edgy you're feeling...). Might I highly recommend this as a nice starting point for ideas:

 

 

Good luck to you, hope you can achieve your vision.

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As long as it doesn't break any laws or steal content without credit, should be fine IMO.  Taste is entirely subjective, though.

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