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Alexo

Doom GBA can be played in 10 Minutes. How so?

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It's really cool to see different versions of Doom being run. I can't check your wr run right now but will def watch it at home. This post might be more at home in the Doom Speed Demos subforum.

 

Gl on sub11!

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This is so neat to watch! I'll be honest, I don't think I've ever seen Doom GBA speedruns before, but this has changed my mind.

 

Also good luck on your runs going forward!

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That was extremely impressive, I'm very glad that all the console ports are starting to get a lot of speed running attention.

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Cool video, fun tricks. I've never played GBA Doom so it was also amusing to see differences in the levels, green blood, etc.

 

Funny how in e2m6 you reach the void through a different spot than usual. And switches seem much easier to press from the outside compared to classic Doom. :P

 

Why aren't you using the switch trick in e2m2, is it impossible in this version?

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Thanks everyone! I have a GBA player for gamecube arriving in the next few days for Real Hardware streams. I Will be looking into further Gamecube improvements in the future for a less then 1 frame accuracy to GBA emulation on the Gamecube. For now, I'll be playing with a 5-7 frame delay, which shouldn't be to much... but it will be fun to finally play on real hardware, where all of these glitches work just the same!

 

On 7/15/2018 at 4:46 PM, xvertigox said:

It's really cool to see different versions of Doom being run. I can't check your wr run right now but will def watch it at home. This post might be more at home in the Doom Speed Demos subforum.

 

Gl on sub11!

I actually considered it when submitting, but its not really a demo persay? Maybe further posts in the future I'll stick with that, thank you :)
Hope you enjoy the chaos when you take a look at it!

 

9 hours ago, K3K said:

This is so neat to watch! I'll be honest, I don't think I've ever seen Doom GBA speedruns before, but this has changed my mind.

 

Also good luck on your runs going forward!

Its actually FUN to attempt! Like the visuals are a complete mess I admit, but when you get great attempts and just go with the rockets and strats in mind, you feel like pouring out more runs. :D
Thanks for the good luck!

 

8 hours ago, InsanityBringer said:

That was extremely impressive, I'm very glad that all the console ports are starting to get a lot of speed running attention.

All the tricks work in Jaguar, 3DO, and 32X. Playstation and Saturn have yet to be tested, but likely in them also..
So I've been finding stuff in one, and pulling the whole mess together into the GBA run route. 

3DO is actually slower with all of the rocket tricks... lol

 

8 hours ago, Memfis said:

Cool video, fun tricks. I've never played GBA Doom so it was also amusing to see differences in the levels, green blood, etc.

 

Funny how in e2m6 you reach the void through a different spot than usual. And switches seem much easier to press from the outside compared to classic Doom. :P

 

Why aren't you using the switch trick in e2m2, is it impossible in this version?

The tricks have been intense practice, but its getting better consistency :)
There are a couple levels changed entirely, but the basic layout exists in most. Some larger areas in some levels scrapped, but interesting to those who have ran PC exclusively.

 

E2M2

The switch is placed farther away from pit :(
You can use a rocket where the Blue armor spawns, but its a high chance double wall jump (Out of bounds, instantly back in bounds on other side). It would save 10 seconds for the whole run, but its a run killer to often, and its stressful to risk dead run with a sub 5 Episode 1 if you get a good run going. :O

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I'm curious if you've attempted linedef deletions in any of the Jag-based ports other than PSX and Doom 64. I am aware that the code change that makes them work is in the Jaguar codebase and thus it's probably possible in all the ports, but haven't actually seen it tried yet in most of the older ones.

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Posted (edited)

Glad to see the interest of a few of you over the time this post :)

 

The Game cube player arrived finally! And I am pleased to say it has beaten the emulator time nearly 20 seconds over first posted PB here.

 

Current PB has reached 11:26! On a real cartridge!

 

 

I am running the Input overlay, and game, directly on the Game Cube through home brew software called Game boy Interface, some great stuff. The ultra low latency mode is made with speedrunning in mind, offering less then a frame of delay between input and action, really great reaction time for more consistent glitching.

 

 

The in-bounds clip, 'Ghost Wall', has finally been mapped. Its possible in 2 different ways

 

SR50 at wall, gather speed and its a chance to go through. No turning. It works rarely, but is the quickest wall clip methood in theory... 

 

However, time playing has shown different levels offer different results. Lag spikes from certain areas loaded on screen, or certain groups of enemies being kept alive, have shown increased chances of Clips working. Certain walls have "HOLES" in a sense, some areas doom guy can fire through at certain angles he is aim, but will work as a wall for the player out of bounds at the same time (INVISIBLE FENCE). Finding these, and gathering SR50 at proper angle, and speed, will put him through every time. Visually, there is a perfect set up you know where to stand, aim, and what buttons to hold.

 

 The Much Easier Method however, is you SR50 at the wall. At the height of your run, before you hit the wall, quickly tap left and right. While sustaining SR50 into the wall, you go through.  (its a 5 frame window, but more consistent success)

 

This could be the final time I update this thread in particular, as a 10 is closing in! New Discoveries are being made, shaving 10-20 more seconds off the run in theory.

 

 

Current sum of best has given a 10:44, but I had a gold get deleted for episode 2, and new routes are still being found!! With a few more breaks and glitches, the game could really be looking at Below 10:40, A high nine even? Its really tough to say the more I've been tinkering with routes, health, the layouts inbounds, and out of bounds, mapping the wall clip method that works best.

 

 

On 7/22/2018 at 1:42 AM, Quasar said:

I'm curious if you've attempted linedef deletions in any of the Jag-based ports other than PSX and Doom 64. I am aware that the code change that makes them work is in the Jaguar codebase and thus it's probably possible in all the ports, but haven't actually seen it tried yet in most of the older ones.

I actually took some strategies from D64 with gun lag strats. Chain gun increases chances immensely, pick up the idea from SSG clip, and it worked out.

 

THESE I HAVE TESTED, GLITCHES DIFFER IMMENSELY BETWEEN PORTS

 

GBA glitches had been discovered around early 2000's, but never really discussed online. No one had figured the other versions had the same problems. The code was so untouched from ID's Jag Build. Basically, it seems no one ever discovered, or patched it, after so many ports... lol

 

I first started testing in January, so still plenty of more could be found over time.

 

Jaguar- Poo-Poo Controls, slower loads, but frames keep up with GBA with best movement. Glitches work, but leaving levels can crash more often then GBA. Maybe 12 if your really really lucky, but enemies on Not to rough shoot more, and shot gunners kill runs more often.

 

32X- Glitches work, but going a few feet out (128 units or a little further away from wall), the game will crash on level exit, or just freeze. This happens no matter what, even if you get back inside the level. very few spots you can clip into the walls while remaining INSIDE the general level, which will not crash the game. So some levels are impossible to preform the exact same route as Jag/GBA, without the game crashing. Its hard to say if this was on purpose, like they put it in to prevent something like the GBA broken mess?

 

Could easily be a 8 or 9 minute run, since it only has 16 levels... You can skip to the credits by finishing E2M7 from outside the level! I was the person who figured out the glitch a while back. :)

 

3DO- They work. But they don't make it any faster. A few of them do decrease the time if you get them the first try, but the levels out of bounds can lag the frame rate even further, making the timing for walls out side the level, and the over all timer vs route traveled terrible. This version could never be less then 14 minutes I'm sure.

 

GBA- It looks So bad, but plays so good. The biggest complaint is precision in turning to face an exact angle, but everything else is great. SR50 is hold 2 buttons, easy. Levels rarely crash. Only E2M3 is on path of a common crash, but its 1/100 plays easily. BFG fired out of Bounds will crash the game every time. But Frames can also speed up and down based on visuals on screen. (Looking at wall, game runs quick, enemies or more parts of the level displayed increase lag, decrease speed.)  The Decrease and increase in speed has greatly helped with ghost walls chance, and has actually put an advantage over every other version running that way. Stepping out of bounds, and turning to face a blank void, with no level loaded, could be used in future runs in theory (Guide doom guy by memory of movements). Looking into the void and moving puts the game into a crazy fast speed. 

Another bonus? The enemies projectiles are much less spammy in this one, and can be manipulated more easily.

 

 

I can confirm these versions work for all of the glitches clipping, but not necessarily value deletions (Haven't tested it on all, can't confirm but it could work.. as everything seems relatively close engine wise across the board. 

 

 

UNTESTED, But LIKELY?:

 

PS1 - Don't have it, but asked some people to try it out sometime for confirmation.

 

SATURN - LOL

 

I have had some success with deletions, but finding the proper areas to unload walls has been a struggle. E1M7 is the only one I have found a useful deletion in a run (skip yellow key and requires blue key traditional, but wall and window between switch pass blue key door will be gone, player can walk in at SR50 angle). Blasting out behind the start room, and running away far enough will trigger the even described above, but its not as quick as current route.

 

Viable yellow key skip could be found in E1M7. I've learned to never say never with this game. Just discovered a double wall jump today, which possibly could be reversed, and take another 2 seconds off the game in Any% on E2M1, but a 17-19 second route for E2M1 is being added soon. A new route was just discovered on E2M4, rocket past yellow door, save chance of failure and just fill up heath on blue orb right after (so the ghost wall wont kill run, but is optional if the runner wanted to do it really)

 

If E2M1 with rockets works, its 16 levels straight of rocket jumps.. Pushing a near 2000 Health barrier of damage in less then 11 minutes.. I'm making use of every med kit I can, and always trying to find more broken stuff.

 

A 10 IS CLOSE MY FRIENDS! 

 

 

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The crashes on level exit are very likely due to the same memory corruption action that allows linedef deletions on PSX and Doom 64 - just that the smaller heaps and different memory arrangements on the lower-end consoles makes it less likely to not break the game.

 

The way it works is that if you move any solid object outside the bounds of the blockmap, that object will start writing mobj_t pointers (the address of its "body" in memory, basically) to areas that are outside of the blockmap - usually this will corrupt some other part of the map data, as those chunks of memory usually get allocated back to back during P_SetupLevel.

 

This happens because Carmack mysteriously removed one of the bounds checks on blockmap accesses that was present in the PC codebase while doing the initial Jag porting.

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On 8/4/2018 at 11:53 AM, Quasar said:

The crashes on level exit are very likely due to the same memory corruption action that allows linedef deletions on PSX and Doom 64 - just that the smaller heaps and different memory arrangements on the lower-end consoles makes it less likely to not break the game.

 

The way it works is that if you move any solid object outside the bounds of the blockmap, that object will start writing mobj_t pointers (the address of its "body" in memory, basically) to areas that are outside of the blockmap - usually this will corrupt some other part of the map data, as those chunks of memory usually get allocated back to back during P_SetupLevel.

 

This happens because Carmack mysteriously removed one of the bounds checks on blockmap accesses that was present in the PC codebase while doing the initial Jag porting.


I had figured it had something to do with Memory for object placement, and raycasting over all. My theory was the lag while turning, and rebuilding the image (depending on what is being processed, large distances or sectors) would cause the wall to skip writing in the memory... I should start trying to find the blockmap areas for certain maps, to potentially save time!

I've just discovered there is another Build of Doom GBA that was left on the cutting room floor, via an Excerpt from this book 'The Minds Behind The Games' https://books.google.com/books?id=FZhUDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA198&dq=Mat+Hopwood+Doom+GBA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj3qp32ut7cAhUBLK0KHd6rC-4Q6AEIKTAA#v=onepage&q=Mat Hopwood Doom GBA&f=false

 

The Jag port was very last minute, the Dev's had a custom version built. Beta Doom GBA I guess you could call it?

Carmack made the adjustment in the initial port, just for it to never be caught. Then the GBA team had built a full working version on their own, only for Carmack to find the Jag files 8 months into development, and Id and Activision forced them to use the Jag port. The funny part is the glitches were never fixed in all the ports and different people it crossed, surprising really. If their version was put out instead, it wouldn't be likely we would be discussing a 10 minute game possibility.

 

I'd imagine the Beta has more resemblance to the PC version, would be sweet to see what they had put together before the Jag was made a requirement. Wouldn't mind trying that version!

 

 

Also, 4:15 Episode 1 has happened on a real Cartridge! Sub 11 full game is possible on real hardware officially, exceeding emulation times. New E1M5 Strats were discovered mid July, and new things could still be found in the future. I'm still running the game every other day on twitch, but it has become very daunting with how low the times need to be to sustain the time I want for the big one. \m/

 

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Watching your clip is impressive, but it's a shame that your voice is very drowned out. Also I think I'd hold more value in the game sound compared to the electronic music.

 

Keep it up, great stuff :)

 

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Dragonfly said:

Watching your clip is impressive, but it's a shame that your voice is very drowned out. Also I think I'd hold more value in the game sound compared to the electronic music.

 

Keep it up, great stuff :)

 

Mainly because some friends were chatting in discord while I was practicing and I got the god run again lol.. but I have started gathering raw footage for all future PB's so they will have only game audio. :)
Glad you've enjoyed them! Hopeful the 10 Happens before the 25th anniversary!

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Oh wow that bit you found in that book is historically significant info; I must add it to the wiki post haste.

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